Marvin

[Big Boss]

Probation?

This is a two-year waiting period for his next extension.

[*Nately120*]

(03-07-2018, 09:11 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Sure, hindsight is a wonderful thing to invoke.  However, in Mike's mind, Marvin is still the best thing that he ever brought to this team.  He likely thinks that Marvin is still awesome, despite not giving him the real ammunition to win the title.  Kind of like that old Lumina, "Dammit, that thing WILL take me to Vegas and back, one more time...".

Is it really hindsight?  There were a number of people, Bengals fans and otherwise, who were pretty damn sure Marvin and Mike didn't have what it takes to advance in the playoffs despite the fact that we were winning 10-12 games per year at that point.  

Mike Brown likes Marvin because Marvin doesn't rock the boat, or if he does rocks the boat as he did in 2010 and 2017, he is given a small concession and falls back in line.  This is why I see Marvin as rather handcuffed by Mike Brown, but at the same time I don't feel bad for Marvin because he's become complicit in perpetuating the non-winning of the franchise.

[grampahol]

C'mon . It's perpetual groundhog day in Cincinnati  ..just replace the letters WKRP with perpetual groundhog day and you have a theme song..

[bengals67]

we will win 5 to 7 games this year and Mike will give Marvin another extension because of progress.

Does anyone really have any hope that a team that wants to retain Bodine will beat the Steelers even once next year or win a playoff game for the first time in 25 plus years?

As another poster has said- groundhog day in Cincinnati- all over again

[*psychdoctor*]

(03-07-2018, 07:56 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: Marvin Lewis will be the head coach of the Cincinnati Bengals until he wins a playoff game.  Mike Brown will not let Marvin go until his 2003 decision to hire him is vindicated.

Sir I respect you but you are incorrect.  It wasn't Mike Browns decision to hire Marvin it was Katie's.  Mike Brown wanted to hire Tom Coughlin.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-08-2018, 01:22 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Is it really hindsight?  There were a number of people, Bengals fans and otherwise, who were pretty damn sure Marvin and Mike didn't have what it takes to advance in the playoffs despite the fact that we were winning 10-12 games per year at that point.  

Mike Brown likes Marvin because Marvin doesn't rock the boat, or if he does rocks the boat as he did in 2010 and 2017, he is given a small concession and falls back in line.  This is why I see Marvin as rather handcuffed by Mike Brown, but at the same time I don't feel bad for Marvin because he's become complicit in perpetuating the non-winning of the franchise.

I guess that I was thinking hindsight in regard to the part where you said "go back in time to when Mike hired Marvin".

[fredtoast]

(03-08-2018, 01:22 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Is it really hindsight?  There were a number of people, Bengals fans and otherwise, who were pretty damn sure Marvin and Mike didn't have what it takes to advance in the playoffs despite the fact that we were winning 10-12 games per year at that point.  

Yes it is 100% hindsight.

The people who made those claims back then actually said Marvin could never get the Bengals to the playoffs on any consistent basis but then they had to change their story when he did.

It is easy to be correct when you can keep changing your position after something happens.

[*psychdoctor*]

(03-08-2018, 03:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes it is 100% hindsight.

The people who made those claims back then actually said Marvin could never get the Bengals to the playoffs on any consistent basis but then they had to change their story when he did.

It is easy to be correct when you can keep changing your position after something happens.

Marvin Lewis changed the culture of the Cincinnati Bengals but it seems like many have forgotten this and they have forgotten how bad the Cincinnati Bengals were in the 1990s.

[*Nately120*]

(03-08-2018, 03:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Yes it is 100% hindsight.

The people who made those claims back then actually said Marvin could never get the Bengals to the playoffs on any consistent basis but then they had to change their story when he did.

It is easy to be correct when you can keep changing your position after something happens.

When did I change my position?  All I can tell you is that as a vocal Bengals fan in Steeler country people were saying things along the lines of "Let the Bengals make the playoffs, they aren't going to do anything" from 2012 onward.  The Bengals could go 16-0 in the regular season and people would expect them to meltdown in their first playoff game, because they've set the precedent that that is what they do.

Like I said, recent NFL events have shown us that the Jaguar can change his spots but the Bengal can't change its stripes.  Damn, I'm clever.

Short version - It don't take no ball o' crystal to foresee Marvin Lewis not winning.

(03-08-2018, 03:15 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Marvin Lewis changed the culture of the Cincinnati Bengals but it seems like many have forgotten this and they have forgotten how bad the Cincinnati Bengals were in the 1990s.

I also remember how bad the Jaguars were for the past 10 years and guess what...they won 2 playoff games and made it to the AFC Championship game in 2017.  Teams can turn things around a lot faster than we can, it seems.  Hell, I've seen meth addicts turn their fortunes around faster than this franchise!

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Still going to hold out hope that either Lazor, Pollack, Austin or Van Pelt will be the next HC in a couple years regardless of how we do.

[fredtoast]

I guess this is the big difference between me and almost everyone else here. To me the ultimate goal is to win the Super Bowl. I would also say that making the Super Bowl would also be a great. But short of that I don't see a huge difference between making the playoffs and losing in game one and making the playoffs and losing in round two.

I don't understand how people can think that winning just one playoff game in one year is an amazing accomplishment that defines success, but making the playoffs multiple years is so shitty they would rather lose and not even make the playoffs. that just does not make any sense to me.

To me a team is successful if they make the playoffs, but unless you make the Super Bowl there is no huge dividing line between losing in the first round and losing in the second round.

[GodFather]

(03-08-2018, 05:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I guess this is the big difference between me and almost everyone else here.  To me the ultimate goal is to win the Super Bowl.  I would also say that making the Super Bowl would also be a great.  But short of that I don't see a huge difference between making the playoffs and losing in game one and making the playoffs and losing in round two.  

I don't understand how people can think that winning just one playoff game in one year is an amazing accomplishment that defines success, but making the playoffs multiple years is so shitty they would rather lose and not even make the playoffs. that just does not make any sense to me.

To me a team is successful if they make the playoffs, but unless you make the Super Bowl there is no huge dividing line between losing in the first round and losing in the second round.

Really? Why stop there because a team 0-16 didn't get any further than a team that "just" made the playoffs with no wins in the playoffs. If its all or nothing than you need to re-evaluate your reasoning because there are no differences between those two scenarios. 

[McC]

(03-08-2018, 03:15 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Marvin Lewis changed the culture of the Cincinnati Bengals but it seems like many have forgotten this and they have forgotten how bad the Cincinnati Bengals were in the 1990s.

Yeah, that was one kind of hell.  This is another kind.  

[fredtoast]

(03-08-2018, 05:33 PM)GodFather Wrote: Really? Why stop there because a team 0-16 didn't get any further than a team that "just" made the playoffs with no wins in the playoffs. If its all or nothing than you need to re-evaluate your reasoning because there are no differences between those two scenarios. 

It is not "all or nothing" with me.  I already said that. To me there are basically two big goals.  At the beginning of the season every teams goal is to make the playoffs.  Then the second main goal after making the playoffs is to win the Super Bowl.  I have never once heard a team say "Our goal this year is to make the playoffs and then win one one playoff game". Yet that is the way a lot of people around here think.  They are WAY more impressed with a team that rarely makes the playoffs but manages to win one game one year than a team that makes the playoffs on a regular basis.

The one and only reason for the entire regular season is to decide who makes the playoffs.  So I think making the playoffs is something to be proud of.  I just can't understand the people who say "Making the playoffs isn't worth shit.  I'd rather lose and not make the playoffs than make the playoffs and lose the first game."

[*Nately120*]

(03-08-2018, 05:15 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I guess this is the big difference between me and almost everyone else here.  To me the ultimate goal is to win the Super Bowl.  I would also say that making the Super Bowl would also be a great.  But short of that I don't see a huge difference between making the playoffs and losing in game one and making the playoffs and losing in round two.  

I don't understand how people can think that winning just one playoff game in one year is an amazing accomplishment that defines success, but making the playoffs multiple years is so shitty they would rather lose and not even make the playoffs. that just does not make any sense to me.

To me a team is successful if they make the playoffs, but unless you make the Super Bowl there is no huge dividing line between losing in the first round and losing in the second round.

Part of me agrees that winning a single playoff game isn't a huge deal in the grand scheme of things...but part of me realizes that a fan of a team that hasn't won a single playoff game in 27 years saying that winning a playoff game isn't much of an accomplishment is pretty self-serving and sour-grapey.

[fredtoast]

(03-08-2018, 05:53 PM)Nately120 Wrote: .but part of me realizes that a fan of a team that hasn't won a single playoff game in 27 years saying that winning a playoff game isn't much of an accomplishment is pretty self-serving and sour-grapey.

But I 100% guarantee that if we win a playoff game it will not make anyone happy.  They will all just start squealing and bitching about how winning a playoff game is meaningless unless we make the Super Bowl.

Everyone will immediately forget that the Bills are so much better than the Bengals because they won a playoff game in 1995.

[GodFather]

(03-08-2018, 05:45 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The one and only reason for the entire regular season is to decide who makes the playoffs.  So I think making the playoffs is something to be proud of.  I just can't understand the people who say "Making the playoffs isn't worth shit.  I'd rather lose and not make the playoffs than make the playoffs and lose the first game."

When you make the playoffs 7 times with Lewis and lose in the first round every single time, where is the success in that? Just to make the playoffs? If thats the case the bar is set low. 

What you hear and read is fans tired of seeing an unprepared team going into the playoffs every single time under Lewis. Its 100% valid when you see this same preparation and results under different players, different coaches and the one constant is Lewis at the helm.

[bengalsturntup926]

For one I know this fan base will celebrate a playoff win like a super bowl win,that's how much crap we been though. 2 if I knew 15 years ago we would have no playoff wins I would of saved my emotions and time and found another hobby 3 Marvin is looking like grandpa Marvin I don't see him coaching us more then 2 years.

[fredtoast]

(03-08-2018, 06:11 PM)GodFather Wrote: Its 100% valid when you see this same preparation and results under different players, different coaches and the one constant is Lewis at the helm.

But then you see the same players and coaches struggle in the playoffs even when they leave the Bengals.

Carson Palmer has a higher career playoff passer rating with the Bengals than with the Cards.

Mike Zimmer needed an absolute miracle to win a playoff game and in his other two postseason games he has blown a 2 score lead in the fourth quarter and gotten blown out at home.

[fredtoast]

(03-08-2018, 06:11 PM)GodFather Wrote: When you make the playoffs 7 times with Lewis and lose in the first round every single time, where is the success in that? Just to make the playoffs? If thats the case the bar is set low.

In that case claiming that making the playoffs just once every few years and winning just one playoff game in one year defines success also sets the bar low.

Where is the "success" in just winning one playoff game one year and then not going back to the playoffs again for several years?  How is that so much more successful than Making the playoffs on a regular basis and never winning a Championship?