Price vs Daniels

[Okeana]

ok so im watching tape today on the centers and the thing that really separates these guys is the type of system they really fit.

Obviously Daniels is a zone blocking center who tends to chip his initial block and step to the next level. he's smaller than price but uses his speed to engage with linebackers. Also he has a tendency to roll block or what i can shift block where he will grab someone and turn them a direction instead of setting his feet, dropping his weight, and engaging.

Price on the other hand is an angle or man blocker which is more suited to a power run game. He will grab his assignment and engage typically pushing to a specific angle and using mass to drive the defensive line back.

Without a shadow of a doubt the best fit for our team is Price for our division and our style of play. While initially I really liked Daniels I just don't think the guy fits our team well at all. Another thing that really stands out to me is the lower body strength of Price compared to Daniels and you can really see it on tape when they engage. Daniels very rarely engages to stop block or push back defenders, most of the time he plays against larger competitors you will see him chip block or roll them to delay the rush instead of outright stopping it. While this is acceptable in college especially in his conference he will absolutely get mauled in the north imo.

Lastly I just wanted to shut down some of this non sense on the thread that has nothing to do with actual scouting. Travis Frederick put up 21 on the bench press for his combine at a higher weight than Daniels... hows that working out for him in the nfl ?

[SunsetBengal]

(03-15-2018, 09:29 PM)Synric Wrote: The thing about Price right now is...He Cannot Lift...which is huge.

Anyone that does any kinda weight training will tell you if you stop lifting that strength goes away quickly. Like I said I would take both Daniels and Ragnow over Price because you can get them into a NFL conditioning program right after they are drafted.

All previous joking and shenanigans aside, you are correct.  He won't be able to lift like he's been used to doing, for a while.  Sure, his strength will be down a little at first, but don't forget that much of his strength is in his natural genetics.  It's what sets elite athletes apart from the rest of us.

I have yet to find any clinical description of his injury, only what he had said publicly.  He reassured everyone that it was a very minor thing, and that he would be full go for camp.  But, he would say that, wouldn't he?  Likely why I'd like hear an Orthopedic Surgeon talk about Price's specific injury.

[*wildcats forever*]

(03-16-2018, 01:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: All previous joking and shenanigans aside, you are correct.  He won't be able to lift like he's been used to doing, for a while.  Sure, his strength will be down a little at first, but don't forget that much of his strength is in his natural genetics.  It's what sets elite athletes apart from the rest of us.

I have yet to find any clinical description of his injury, only what he had said publicly.  He reassured everyone that it was a very minor thing, and that he would be full go for camp.  But, he would say that, wouldn't he?  Likely why I'd like hear an Orthopedic Surgeon talk about Price's specific injury.

You and I, along with others, have been screaming for a decent center for how many years now? Now we see an opportunity to choose from 3 or 4 with either our 1st or 2nd pick. Couple this with the FO spending FA money on everyone not named Bodine, and here we are with possibly the best off season in this century. And I will purposely avoid listing the reasons why it won't work out this way. I want to be optimistic. I want to stay optimistic. So I'll be happy with any one of these guys, because I choose to believe the new coaches involved will get who they know will work out for us despite what criticisms the pundits and fans heap on them. Complete optimism is one draft away.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-16-2018, 05:03 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: You and I, along with others, have been screaming for a decent center for how many years now? Now we see an opportunity to choose from 3 or 4 with either our 1st or 2nd pick. Couple this with the FO spending FA money on everyone not named Bodine, and here we are with possibly the best off season in this century. And I will purposely avoid listing the reasons why it won't work out this way. I want to be optimistic. I want to stay optimistic. So I'll be happy with any one of these guys, because I choose to believe the new coaches involved will get who they know will work out for us despite what criticisms the pundits and fans heap on them. Complete optimism is one draft away.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-16-2018, 05:17 PM)ochocincos Wrote:

Feels like forever, since Richie Braham was on the team.  Then later, we thought we had a gamer in Kyle Cook, until he got injured and was never the same.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Well, looks like most agree that Price fits our style better atleast what Pollack has said our style will be.

Nasty, physical and smart.

Nothing against Daniels and would like him if we were going to be more of a pass heavy team but i doubt we will be.

We need a Center that can handle the big 3-4 NT's we face here in the AFC North. That is Price and Ragnow.

Like Ragnow just as much honestly and would be more than fine with him as well.

[*wildcats forever*]

(03-16-2018, 06:05 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Well, looks like most agree that Price fits our style better atleast what Pollack has said our style will be.

Nasty, physical and smart.

Nothing against Daniels and would like him if we were going to be more of a pass heavy team but i doubt we will be.

We need a Center that can handle the big 3-4 NT's we face here in the AFC North. That is Price and Ragnow.

Like Ragnow just as much honestly and would be more than fine with him as well.

I've read the comparisons, and the rap against Daniels is strength. Yet I see him rated higher than Price from a few. The question(s) I have are: How deficient is his strength 'exactly'? He may not be as strong as a healthy Price, but does that mean he doesn't have 'enough' strength to get the job done? I haven't read that specific knock against him. I just don't know how this plays out until we see whomever we get snap the ball and executes his role in whatever the new scheme will be. This goes for any of these candidates. What I feel is we're going to get a noticeable upgrade out of one of these guys. And that puts me in to doing cartwheels.....mentally, at least.

[Hammerstripes]

(03-15-2018, 09:29 PM)Synric Wrote: The thing about Price right now is...He Cannot Lift...which is huge.

Anyone that does any kinda weight training will tell you if you stop lifting that strength goes away quickly. Like I said I would take both Daniels and Ragnow over Price because you can get them into a NFL conditioning program right after they are drafted.

I guess that's fair, if we are only talking about signing a guy for one year.  I'd rather take the guy that's the better player for what we do, not select a guy simply because he's able to lift weights before camp.

[Jpoore]

(03-16-2018, 06:16 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: I've read the comparisons, and the rap against Daniels is strength. Yet I see him rated higher than Price from a few. The question(s) I have are: How deficient is his strength 'exactly'? He may not be as strong as a healthy Price, but does that mean he doesn't have 'enough' strength to get the job done? I haven't read that specific knock against him. I just don't know how this plays out until we see whomever we get snap the ball and executes his role in whatever the new scheme will be. This goes for any of these candidates. What I feel is we're going to get a noticeable upgrade out of one of these guys. And that puts me in to doing cartwheels.....mentally, at least.

The problem isn't lack of strength. It's lack of CORE strength. That's the. Same problem that ogbuehi had coming out and despite all his work still couldn't build up enough core strength. I'm not drafting another ogbuehi type player when u got a center that some call the best prospect in a decade.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-16-2018, 06:16 PM)wildcats forever Wrote: I've read the comparisons, and the rap against Daniels is strength. Yet I see him rated higher than Price from a few. The question(s) I have are: How deficient is his strength 'exactly'? He may not be as strong as a healthy Price, but does that mean he doesn't have 'enough' strength to get the job done? I haven't read that specific knock against him. I just don't know how this plays out until we see whomever we get snap the ball and executes his role in whatever the new scheme will be. This goes for any of these candidates. What I feel is we're going to get a noticeable upgrade out of one of these guys. And that puts me in to doing cartwheels.....mentally, at least.

That is it on Daniels, his one drawback is his strength. But what a big drawback for a team like the Bengals.

He is great in every other aspect and is very smart. I like him but he just doesn't seem to fit what Pollack is talkin about.

But yeah, he would definately be an upgrade over Bodine with everything he can do and would be very happy with him.

Plus he can lift unlike Price before the season and would be ready to go. But so would Ragnow and he has the strength.

Hence, would be very happy with Price but maybe Ragnow is the better player for us as we would be getting a guy who could
perform immediately. Price just has that great ceiling, would be doing cartwheels with any of these picks at 21 or 46 honestly.

[StLucieBengal]

(03-14-2018, 10:07 PM)Synric Wrote: Fact is James Daniels can do things no other Center in the draft can...A Center that can consistently get to a 3-tech is insane.

Yup. His ability to pull and reach is crazy.

I get why everyone wants big, strong, and aggressive but as that what Bodine was coming out? Give me the technician.

[Hammerstripes]

(03-16-2018, 10:08 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: Yup.   His ability to pull and reach is crazy.  

I get why everyone wants big, strong, and aggressive but as that what Bodine was coming out?    Give me the technician.

That's not what Bodine was.  Bodine was a guy that benched 37 times.  That doesn't mean he is functionally strong on the field.

Price is a good technician.  Im sick and tired of watching our Center get pushed back into the QB on a regular basis.  I'll take the guy who is more apt to prevent that.

Personally, they are 1 and 1a.  I'd be happy with either, but I would rather have Price.

[BengalsRocker]

(03-16-2018, 12:03 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Thanks, really would like to see Billy in stripes next season!!

I think he's got the IQ for it.

If his physical abilities match up he could not only improve the line but help Dalton in my opinion.

[BengalsRocker]

If this team doesn't pick a Center in the first two picks... how frickin' pissed will you be?

I will be absolutely livid!!

Between overall craptastic linebacker play, Center has been the worst position this team has been at for a damn long time.

This just goes to show how much rope Alexander had.

To have your QB of your O-Line to be at the bottom of the league for so long is completely unacceptable.

[samhain]

Depends on how the draft falls really. I'd like to get two o-linemen with the first two picks, but like some guys better than others. I'd love to see a monster like Hernandez on this team. He's exactly what the run game needs.

Also, a player with Wynn's versatility might be tempting for a team like the Bengals who value that trait on the line and certainly value the ability to play tackle (if they think he can at this level).

If it's center or bust with the 21st, then I'd say Price. If we could get Hernandez or Wynn at 21 and then Daniels in the 2nd, then I'd do that, but you never know how that's going to shake out.

I like Price in a 1 on 1 comparison because of the division. We need a strong, aggressive dude up there to deal with the NTs in the North, which is something that Bodine has been awful at.

[oncemoreuntothejimbreech]

(03-16-2018, 01:02 PM)Okeana Wrote: ok so im watching tape today on the centers and the thing that really separates these guys is the type of system they really fit.

Obviously Daniels is a zone blocking center who tends to chip his initial block and step to the next level. he's smaller than price but uses his speed to engage with linebackers. Also he has a tendency to roll block or what i can shift block where he will grab someone and turn them a direction instead of setting his feet, dropping his weight, and engaging.

Price on the other hand is an angle or man blocker which is more suited to a power run game. He will grab his assignment and engage typically pushing to a specific angle and using mass to drive the defensive line back.

Without a shadow of a doubt the best fit for our team is Price for our division and our style of play. While initially I really liked Daniels I just don't think the guy fits our team well at all. Another thing that really stands out to me is the lower body strength of Price compared to Daniels and you can really see it on tape when they engage. Daniels very rarely engages to stop block or push back defenders, most of the time he plays against larger competitors you will see him chip block or roll them to delay the rush instead of outright stopping it. While this is acceptable in college especially in his conference he will absolutely get mauled in the north imo.

Lastly I just wanted to shut down some of this non sense on the thread that has nothing to do with actual scouting. Travis Frederick put up 21 on the bench press for his combine at a higher weight than Daniels... hows that working out for him in the nfl ?

I agree Daniels is better suited for a zone blocking scheme and Price is better suited for a man blocking scheme. I'm not familiar enough with the new O line coach to know which type of player he prefers or which scheme him, Lazor, and Marvin plan to utilize this season.

As far as Price's injury; who knows. His agent may be telling him to delay surgery until after the draft so he doesn't slide. Or it could be minor like he says. Teams are going to need to see the MRI for themselves to determine the severity. If it were a complete tear he would be out for the season and I doubt they would defer surgery. Which leads me to believe it is a partial tear that most likely wouldn't need surgery. Yes, it would affect upper body lifting, but he would be able to continue lower body weight training. He wouldn't be to perform personal bests, but he would be able to continue to lift so when he is cleared his strength should return relatively quickly.

Bottom line, if you prefer Price to Daniels his injury isn't severe enough to change that (if what is being reported is true.)

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-17-2018, 08:18 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: If this team doesn't pick a Center in the first two picks...  how frickin' pissed will you be?

I will be absolutely livid!!

Between overall craptastic linebacker play, Center has been the worst position this team has been at for a damn long time.

This just goes to show how much rope Alexander had.  

To have your QB of your O-Line to be at the bottom of the league for so long is completely unacceptable.

I guess it depends on who the Center would be, if we wait and let those top 3 or 4 go by i will be majorly pissed off beyond imagination!

[StLucieBengal]

(03-17-2018, 01:18 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: That's not what Bodine was.  Bodine was a guy that benched 37 times.  That doesn't mean he is functionally strong on the field.

Price is a good technician.  Im sick and tired of watching our Center get pushed back into the QB on a regular basis.  I'll take the guy who is more apt to prevent that.

Personally, they are 1 and 1a.  I'd be happy with either, but I would rather have Price.

Fair enough. It’s gonna come down to how Pollack and Lazor are doing the run game. I am not going to be upset at either.

Bodine was supposed to be this big strong center. Obviously he wasn’t

[jj22]

I go with Daniels. Price will miss too much mini/mandatory camp and maybe even some training camp. He won't be ready to start and we need a starter ready from day one. One that will take every rep once drafted and camp starts.

[samhain]

(03-17-2018, 01:18 AM)Hammerstripes Wrote: That's not what Bodine was.  Bodine was a guy that benched 37 times.  That doesn't mean he is functionally strong on the field.

Price is a good technician.  Im sick and tired of watching our Center get pushed back into the QB on a regular basis.  I'll take the guy who is more apt to prevent that.

Personally, they are 1 and 1a.  I'd be happy with either, but I would rather have Price.

As someone who lifts weights a lot, I believe that the bench press is about the dumbest lift to measure functional athletic strength with.  

Functional strength comes from your butt and hamstrings, and to some extent the lower back.  If you don't have the flexibility and strength in those muscle groups, you can bench all you want.  You'll still get shoved around by guys with lower body strength and flexibility.  If an NFL scout/coach drafts a guy based on his bench, he should be fired.