Price vs Daniels

[Hoofhearted]

(03-20-2018, 02:21 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: False.  If a guy struggles with power and bull rushers in college, how do you think he's going to fare with a #340 NT in his face, all game long?

By dedicating an entire off-season to working on his strength and fundamentals?  If he can learn to anchor, you now have yourself a potential all-pro center. 

[SunsetBengal]

(03-20-2018, 02:36 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: By dedicating an entire off-season to working on his strength and fundamentals?  If he can learn to anchor, you now have yourself a potential all-pro center. 

He'll be a great player, in a division with even fronts on defense.  Or on a team that runs a lot of traps, counters, and likes to pull the Center on screens.  However, in the AFCN, he's going to have a huge NT in his face all the time.

Quote:Weaknesses Played lighter than he needs to be as a pro. Has to continue to add functional mass to his frame. Power at the point of attack is average. Bull-rushers make him work overtime to maintain his anchor. Will struggle to recover if nose guards get hands on him first. Target points can be too high in pass sets causing hands to slide up and off opponent. Gets in a hurry to climb on top of second level linebacker and will leave initial block unsecured for guard next to him. Scheme didn't allow for much drive blocking.

It says right there that he struggles with Nose Guards and Bull-rushers.

[*psychdoctor*]

James Daniel is only 20 years old. In two years he can fill out his core. But I don't know if you can change his demeanor. The reason I am leaning towards price is because Billy may be there in a second round and the Bengals can grab one of the top guards Isaiah Wynn or Hernandez in round one.

[Hoofhearted]

(03-20-2018, 02:42 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: He'll be a great player, in a division with even fronts on defense.  Or on a team that runs a lot of traps, counters, and likes to pull the Center on screens.  However, in the AFCN, he's going to have a huge NT in his face all the time.



It says right there that he struggles with Nose Guards and Bull-rushers.

Yeah, but I think that was a scheme thing Iowa liked to run, so they probably didn't go over how to handle a bull-rush as much as second level blocking, angles, etc. They relied on out-positioning you vs over-powering.

So it's not a physical or mental part of his game that is missing; It's coaching of fundamentals setting his feet, not locking his arms out, and not dropping his backside. 

[Hoofhearted]

(03-20-2018, 02:44 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: James Daniel is only 20 years old.  In two years he can fill out his core.  But I don't know if you can change his demeanor.   The reason I am leaning towards price is because Billy may be there in a second round and the Bengals can grab one of the top guards Isaiah Wynn or Hernandez in round one.

Yeah, no way do I take either of them in the first. I've seen Daniels mocked higher than Price in some, but Price is probably a safer pick...but think Daniels has a slightly higher ceiling than Price, while price has a higher floor. 

[SunsetBengal]

(03-20-2018, 02:53 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Yeah, but I think that was a scheme thing Iowa liked to run, so they probably didn't go over how to handle a bull-rush as much as second level blocking, angles, etc. They relied on out-positioning you vs over-powering.

So it's not a physical or mental part of his game that is missing; It's coaching of fundamentals setting his feet, not locking his arms out, and not dropping his backside. 

So, who's going to be the starting Center, while Daniels takes a year to develop and learn how to handle NTs and how to drive block, and how to not leave the Guard hanging on plays where he's supposed to chip?

Seriously, I don't have anything against the guy.  He's just not a good fit for plug and play against 3-4 defenses in the NFL.

[*psychdoctor*]

(03-20-2018, 02:57 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Yeah, no way do I take either of them in the first. I've seen Daniels mocked higher than Price in some, but Price is probably a safer pick...but think Daniels has a slightly higher ceiling than Price, while price has a higher floor. 

I agree.  If Daniels can can fill out his core strength he's only 20 years old.   He gets to the second level so quick.  I'm just hoping the Cincinnati Bengals do not pick the center in a first-round and grab a guard or that left tackle from Notre Dame and moving to the right side.  

[BengalHawk62]

(03-20-2018, 02:44 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: James Daniel is only 20 years old.  In two years he can fill out his core.  But I don't know if you can change his demeanor.   The reason I am leaning towards price is because Billy may be there in a second round and the Bengals can grab one of the top guards Isaiah Wynn or Hernandez in round one.

(03-20-2018, 02:57 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Yeah, no way do I take either of them in the first. I've seen Daniels mocked higher than Price in some, but Price is probably a safer pick...but think Daniels has a slightly higher ceiling than Price, while price has a higher floor. 

I agree with these statements.  I would take one of the top guards in 1 and follow that up with Price in 2.  then get some LB help in the 3rd.



















Ps. 55-24   

[Hoofhearted]

(03-20-2018, 02:59 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So, who's going to be the starting Center, while Daniels takes a year to develop and learn how to handle NTs and how to drive block, and how to not leave the Guard hanging on plays where he's supposed to chip?

Seriously, I don't have anything against the guy.  He's just not a good fit for plug and play against 3-4 defenses in the NFL.

I mean, to be fair, we've had it the past four years so what's one more year of a "death by fire house" approach to reap the rewards next year and on.

[Hoofhearted]

(03-20-2018, 03:04 PM)BengalHawk62 Wrote: Ps. 55-24   

I've since developed amnesia....

[Jpoore]

(03-20-2018, 02:09 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: I would take Daniels. He started his freshman year at  right guard, and every since then has been at center.

Price just moved to center last year. Also, from 2016 to 2017 OSUs rushing numbers took a small hit from 5.8 to 5.5, 245.2 a game to 243.4, etc. Iowa's kinda stayed the same at 4.5 save for last year when they were 3.8.

The one thing I also noticed from watching the few Iowa games is his ability to call out a blitz. His recognition is remarkable at identifying the blitz and communicating it to the rest of the line. I am not confident that Price is as good at that.

Their numbers took a hit bc they had to break in a new guard. They didn't have to do that the year before. And u can draft price and play him at guard as well. Can't do that with Daniels.

(03-20-2018, 02:36 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: By dedicating an entire off-season to working on his strength and fundamentals?  If he can learn to anchor, you now have yourself a potential all-pro center. 

U do realize ogbuehi has been trying to build up his core strength ever since he got here? It's still nowhere near what it needs to be.  Still gets bull rushedrush the time. Meanwhile u have 0 concerns about price who will be a future all pro and is being called best center prospect in a decade. Not to mention there's the coming from Iowa as opposed to osu.

[StLucieBengal]

(03-20-2018, 02:44 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: James Daniel is only 20 years old. In two years he can fill out his core. But I don't know if you can change his demeanor. The reason I am leaning towards price is because Billy may be there in a second round and the Bengals can grab one of the top guards Isaiah Wynn or Hernandez in round one.

I support this if We take a wynn/Hernandez/mcglinchy in round 1.

Honestly would love to see OL in first three rounds if we grabbed a guard in rd 1.

[Hoofhearted]

(03-21-2018, 09:36 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Their numbers took a hit bc they had to break in a new guard. They didn't have to do that the year before. And u can draft price and play him at guard as well. Can't do that with Daniels.

Why not? He played guard his freshman year. This was prices first year at center.

Quote:U do realize ogbuehi has been trying to build up his core strength ever since he got here? It's still nowhere near what it needs to be.  Still gets bull rushedrush the time. Meanwhile u have 0 concerns about price who will be a future all pro and is being called best center prospect in a decade. Not to mention there's the coming from Iowa as opposed to osu.

Ogbuehi lacks any killer instinct is his main problem and weighs 30-40 pounds less than Glenn. He still doesn't have quite the weight and core strength yet to adsorb the rush.

I don't see any mental makeup problems with either of these two prospects. But the weakness I see with price is a strength for Daniels, and vice versa. Price won't be as good to get to the second level and seal those LBs off nearly as well as Daniels, but Daniels won't drive someone to the bench like Price will. Add to the fact that Glenn is a little more suited for a gap blocking scheme vs Zone, I do think the best fit here is Price. But again, I see Daniels as the better prospect.

[SunsetBengal]

(03-22-2018, 08:34 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Why not? He played guard his freshman year. This was prices first year at center.


Ogbuehi lacks any killer instinct is his main problem and weighs 30-40 pounds less than Glenn. He still doesn't have quite the weight and core strength yet to adsorb the rush.

I don't see any mental makeup problems with either of these two prospects. But the weakness I see with price is a strength for Daniels, and vice versa. Price won't be as good to get to the second level and seal those LBs off nearly as well as Daniels, but Daniels won't drive someone to the bench like Price will. Add to the fact that Glenn is a little more suited for a gap blocking scheme vs Zone, I do think the best fit here is Price. But again, I see Daniels as the better prospect.

Here's the thing.  We don't need a Center 10 yards down field, just one that can handle the huge NT right in front of him.  You seem to forget that we play in a division versus 3 different 3-4 defenses..

[Hoofhearted]

(03-22-2018, 08:41 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Here's the thing.  We don't need a Center 10 yards down field, just one that can handle the huge NT right in front of him.  You seem to forget that we play in a division versus 3 different 3-4 defenses..

No, I am trying to measure and determine the best center. If a guy is moves quicker, then he gets to the point of attack faster and with more force. 

[SunsetBengal]

(03-22-2018, 08:44 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: No, I am trying to measure and determine the best center. If a guy is moves quicker, then he gets to the point of attack faster and with more force. 

You're missing the point.  It don't matter how quick the Center is, when his primary man to block is arm's reach, directly across from him most of the time.

Stop trying to pound the square peg into the round hole, it just doesn't fit. 

[Hoofhearted]

(03-22-2018, 08:52 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You're missing the point.  It don't matter how quick the Center is, when his primary man to block is arm's reach, directly across from him most of the time.

Stop trying to pound the square peg into the round hole, it just doesn't fit. 

 

There's a (small) reason they do all those drills like 40, 3 cone, vertical, etc... To measure explosion. How "fast twitched" you are. If Daniels can get to the defenders play-side shoulder before defender can fill the gap, he wins. Even if he's 2 feet feet from him, if he can beat him within those first few feet, more often than not he'll be in better position.

But I think I want Price now more than Daniels to finally become more of a power run team. Buckle those chin straps up boys!

[XenoMorph]

(03-22-2018, 09:17 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote:  

There's a (small) reason they do all those drills like 40, 3 cone, vertical, etc... To measure explosion. How "fast twitched" you are. If Daniels can get to the defenders play-side shoulder before defender can fill the gap, he wins. Even if he's 2 feet feet from him, if he can beat him within those first few feet, more often than not he'll be in better position.

But I think I want Price now more than Daniels to finally become more of a power run team. Buckle those chin straps up boys!

it will be tricky... 

They might grab daniels @ 21...  As price is predicted to fall a bit with his pectoral issue.

And without a center I don't know if they risk waiting till round 2 for a guy whos currently injured.

if you don't grab one round 1 you risk them being gone by round 2 as there are several Center needy teams

[Hoofhearted]

(03-22-2018, 09:55 AM)XenoMorph Wrote: it will be tricky... 

They might grab daniels @ 21...  As price is predicted to fall a bit with his pectoral issue.

And without a center I don't know if they risk waiting till round 2 for a guy whos currently injured.

if you don't grab one round 1 you risk them being gone by round 2 as there are several Center needy teams

Yep 

The injury issue I don't think scares them, since they took OG coming into draft with an injury. But since it's a center, they probably don't value that as high so they may not pull the trigger on price. It'll be a fascinating draft, and certainly think they have to grab a center or guard round 1, but won't be terribly surprised to see them take another position group (LB, DE...or even CB, WR) and double down in later rounds.

[Jpoore]

(03-22-2018, 08:34 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Why not? He played guard his freshman year. This was prices first year at center.


Ogbuehi lacks any killer instinct is his main problem and weighs 30-40 pounds less than Glenn. He still doesn't have quite the weight and core strength yet to adsorb the rush.

I don't see any mental makeup problems with either of these two prospects. But the weakness I see with price is a strength for Daniels, and vice versa. Price won't be as good to get to the second level and seal those LBs off nearly as well as Daniels, but Daniels won't drive someone to the bench like Price will. Add to the fact that Glenn is a little more suited for a gap blocking scheme vs Zone, I do think the best fit here is Price. But again, I see Daniels as the better prospect.

Exactly. In his first year at center he's better than Daniels. Number 1 center number 3 guard. Best versatility. He only can get better at center.

See we disagree here .Daniels never fully blocked the Dt before moving off to the lber. He always does the combo block and does a half block then moves up to center. Price flattens u, then goes and flattens the lber. He has extremely underrated athleticsm and football iq. I think Daniels will be a bust.