2010 off season.

[fredtoast]

The last "big" off season I can remember for Bengal fans was 2010.

First of all there was the afterglow from the magical 2009 season where a bunch of last minute heroics hid tha fact that the '09 team was all smoke and mirrors.  After that team beat Pittsburgh in the 9th game of the season (without scoring an offensive td) they went 3-5, and did not beat a team that was better than 5-11.  Over their last 5 games they were outscored more than 20 points per games (128-65).

Second there was the using of a first round pick on a "pass catching" TE.  The pass catching TE had been like a unicorn for Bengal fans before they drafted Gresham with the 21st pick.  

Finally there was the signing of Terrell Owens.  At the time even I felt this was a huge move by the Bengals.  In the first 8 games of the '09 season when Chris Henry was playing the Bengals passing game ranked 10th in tds, 13th in passer rating, and 18th in yards.  But after Henry went down teams just bracketed Ochocinco because our other WRS (Caldwell, Coles) could not beat single coverage.  With no receiving threat from the TEs (Coats, Foschi) or the RB (Benson) our passing game dropped to 30th in yards, 27th in tds, and 21st is passer rating over the final 8 games of the season.

So it seemed like the Bengals had made two crucial moves to improve our passing game and since we already had a running game and solid defense anticipation was near an all time high for that 2010 team.

But don't worry.  I am sure nothing like that will ever happen again.  So we don't have to worry about our optimism from this off season melting away in a series of bitterly disappointing losses.

No way.

[Shake n Blake]

This offseason more closely resembles the 2003 offseason, IMO.

Brought in some quality coaches. Marvin etc in 2003, Pollack, Van Pelt etc in 2018.
Brought in Kevin Hardy, John Thornton, Tory James, Duane Clemons and Shane Graham via free agency. That's a lot of quality right there. This year we got Cordy Glenn, Preston Brown, Chris Baker and Matt Barkley while retaining Eifert.
Then we kinda nailed the draft with Palmer, Steinbach, Kelley Washington and Jeremi Johnson. We can only hope this draft yields 3 starters.

[Bengalholic]

(03-21-2018, 04:48 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: This offseason more closely resembles the 2003 offseason, IMO.

Brought in some quality coaches. Marvin etc in 2003, Pollack, Van Pelt etc in 2018.
Brought in Kevin Hardy, John Thornton, Tory James, Duane Clemons and Shane Graham via free agency. That's a lot of quality right there. This year we got Cordy Glenn, Preston Brown, Chris Baker and Matt Barkley while retaining Eifert.
Then we kinda nailed the draft with Palmer, Steinbach, Kelley Washington and Jeremi Johnson. We can only hope this draft yields 3 starters.

Yeah, the '03 offseason was probably the best until now IMO. They also added Reggie Kelly and Carl Powell, along with the names you mentioned.

They were pretty active in 2012 as well, although it didn't work out quite as well as '03: Wharton, Allen, Anderson, Harvey, Bell, Green-Ellis and Newman.

For me, this offseason now has to rank as the best - regardless o how it works out - just in term of being aggressive and making meaningful changes.

The mere fact that both Alexander and Bodine is enough to make you do a double take, but combining that with some good new coaches and very solid players acquisitions...and all of sudden, I've got a renewed optimism about this season.

I've given Mike and Marvin plenty of grief and criticism since 2013, and I feel it was justified, but I also give them credit for what they've accomplished so far this offseason. Color me impressed!

[Shake n Blake]

(03-21-2018, 05:43 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Yeah, the '03 offseason was probably the best until now IMO. They also added Reggie Kelly and Carl Powell, along with the names you mentioned.

They were pretty active in 2012 as well, although it didn't work out quite as well as '03: Wharton, Allen, Anderson, Harvey, Bell, Green-Ellis and Newman.

For me, this offseason now has to rank as the best - regardless o how it works out - just in term of being aggressive and making meaningful changes.

The mere fact that both Alexander and Bodine is enough to make you do a double take, but combining that with some good new coaches and very solid players acquisitions...and all of sudden, I've got a renewed optimism about this season.

I've given Mike and Marvin plenty of grief and criticism since 2013, and I feel it was justified, but I also give them credit for what they've accomplished so far this offseason. Color me impressed!

No doubt. Lots to be excited about and look forward to. Heck, my interest in the draft is even renewed. I can't wait to see what Center we get. 

Been a long time since a Bengal offseason had me this optimistic. Again, it'd probably go back to 2003 for me with Marvin Lewis and the heavy involvement in FA. This might even top that.

[Devils Advocate]

This team uncannily runs through familiar cycles, for sure.


Let’s hope that ends this season.

[*rfaulk34*]

(03-21-2018, 06:28 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: No doubt. Lots to be excited about and look forward to. Heck, my interest in the draft is even renewed. I can't wait to see what Center we get. 

Been a long time since a Bengal offseason had me this optimistic. Again, it'd probably go back to 2003 for me with Marvin Lewis and the heavy involvement in FA. This might even top that.

You're letting Mikey dangle that dollar bill in front of you...

[Shake n Blake]

(04-08-2018, 04:32 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: You're letting Mikey dangle that dollar bill in front of you...

Season tickets here I come! 

Seriously though, 2 weeks later I still like the moves, but Marv is still there. So I still see 1st round exit as the ceiling.

[*rfaulk34*]

(04-08-2018, 05:18 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Season tickets here I come! 

Seriously though, 2 weeks later I still like the moves, but Marv is still there. So I still see 1st round exit as the ceiling.

Agreed. Honestly, no matter what they do, the bottom line is still Mike and Marv show.

How does that line go again...something about putting lipstick on a pig? Bfine would know. He's a wiz with the idioms. 

[bengalsturntup926]

(04-08-2018, 05:18 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Season tickets here I come! 

Seriously though, 2 weeks later I still like the moves, but Marv is still there. So I still see 1st round exit as the ceiling.

I'm a little more positive ,I see a wild card win our ceiling

[N_B]

(03-21-2018, 04:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The last "big" off season I can remember for Bengal fans was 2010.

First of all there was the afterglow from the magical 2009 season where a bunch of last minute heroics hid tha fact that the '09 team was all smoke and mirrors. After that team beat Pittsburgh in the 9th game of the season (without scoring an offensive td) they went 3-5, and did not beat a team that was better than 5-11. Over their last 5 games they were outscored more than 20 points per games (168-65).

Second there was the using of a first round pick on a "pass catching" TE. The pass catching TE had been like a unicorn for Bengal fans before they drafted Gresham with the 21st pick.

Finally there was the signing of Terrell Owens. At the time even I felt this was a huge move by the Bengals. In the first 8 games of the '09 season when Chris Henry was playing the Bengals passing game ranked 10th in tds, 13th in passer rating, and 18th in yards. But after Henry went down teams just bracketed Ochocinco because our other WRS (Caldwell, Coles) could not beat single coverage. With no receiving threat from the TEs (Coats, Foschi) or the RB (Benson) our passing game dropped to 30th in yards, 27th in tds, and 21st is passer rating over the final 8 games of the season.

So it seemed like the Bengals had made two crucial moves to improve our passing game and since we already had a running game and solid defense anticipation was near an all time high for that 2010 team.

But don't worry. I am sure nothing like that will ever happen again. So we don't have to worry about our optimism from this off season melting away in a series of bitterly disappointing losses.

No way.

Not sure where you’re getting your stats. The bengals beat an 11-5 packer team and two 9-7 teams in Pittsburgh and Baltimore 2x. Additionally, they were certainly not outscored by 20 points per game over the final stretch of the season.

[*SHRacerX*]

(03-21-2018, 04:13 PM)fredtoast Wrote: The last "big" off season I can remember for Bengal fans was 2010.

First of all there was the afterglow from the magical 2009 season where a bunch of last minute heroics hid tha fact that the '09 team was all smoke and mirrors.  After that team beat Pittsburgh in the 9th game of the season (without scoring an offensive td) they went 3-5, and did not beat a team that was better than 5-11.  Over their last 5 games they were outscored more than 20 points per games (168-65).

Second there was the using of a first round pick on a "pass catching" TE.  The pass catching TE had been like a unicorn for Bengal fans before they drafted Gresham with the 21st pick.  

Finally there was the signing of Terrell Owens.  At the time even I felt this was a huge move by the Bengals.  In the first 8 games of the '09 season when Chris Henry was playing the Bengals passing game ranked 10th in tds, 13th in passer rating, and 18th in yards.  But after Henry went down teams just bracketed Ochocinco because our other WRS (Caldwell, Coles) could not beat single coverage.  With no receiving threat from the TEs (Coats, Foschi) or the RB (Benson) our passing game dropped to 30th in yards, 27th in tds, and 21st is passer rating over the final 8 games of the season.

So it seemed like the Bengals had made two crucial moves to improve our passing game and since we already had a running game and solid defense anticipation was near an all time high for that 2010 team.

But don't worry.  I am sure nothing like that will ever happen again.  So we don't have to worry about our optimism from this off season melting away in a series of bitterly disappointing losses.

No way.

I remember that season very well.  It played out a lot like last season, rather than what you imply might happen this season (although I see your point).  

In 2010, Carlos Dunlap was a rookie that sat for most of the early part of the year, despite not getting much pressure from the starting LDE, Robert Geathers.  He came on very strong at the end of the year, and nearly tied Suh for the rookie lead in sacks with 9.5.  The middle of the defense had Peko and Sims, neither of which were very impactful in a pass rushing situation, while the rookie Geno Atkins sat most of the time.  Though the draft of 2010 might have been one of their best ever, they didn't really get the benefit of those players (except Gresh) that season while they were still in contention.  That sounds a lot like last year.  No Ross, Mixon in rotation, young DEs still sitting behind MJ, etc. 

Another similarity between 2010 and 2017 was the stale coaching of OC Bob Bratkowski.  Saddled with Dennis Roland at RT (again, like last year) but determined to use a downfield passing attack, the offense led the league in INTs and struggled to score points.  Bratkowski had become predictable, and to your point about 2009 being smoke and mirrors, the league had slowed what was a high-powered passing attack in Palmer's early years.  There are many that also though Palmer had still not completely recovered from his elbow injury.  It is often forgotten that former second round pick, Jerome Simpson, got his chance at the end of the season when Chad had an ankle injury to have 18 receptions for 247 yards and 3 TDs in the last two games.  He only had one reception in the previous two seasons.  It would have been nice to have him in the game plan before the season was over.  

Fast forward to the upcoming 2018 season:  A fresh OC with the chance to work an entire off season to install his offense.  No longer stuck with the tired Paul Alexander and his patty-cake slide blocking (puke) that Dave Lapham (who normally never shows real criticism would lose it during games on a third and one rush that would lose two yards with something like "Just line up and drive the guy in front of you!".  Also an infusion (I am hoping) of speed and youth at WR with Ross, Malone, and Core to join the returning Eifert.  Kroft filled in quite well, thank you, and I would like to see more of the two of them on the field in the red zone.  The biggest addition (by subtraction?) will be Ced O being replaced by Cordy Glenn, and even if there ends up being a health issue there, we now know Boling can move to LT if needed.  Mixon and Gio really came on at the end of the year under Lazor and the new blocking scheme.  A new center is a certainty, as well as potentially a new RT in Hart, a draft pick, or an improved Fisher after a cardiac tune-up.  

On the defense, the biggest question mark at LB and DT have been answered with the signings of Brown and Baker, and there will most certainly be draft picks used at the LB and DT position as well.  Glasgow should be even better in year two.  Burfict's suspension won't help matters, but at least we have a veteran in the LB corps that is a tackling machine in Brown.  Not sure what to make of Austin at DC.  At the very least we have a rising star in WJIII, some young speedsters in Willis and Lawson, and the veterans of Dunlap and Geno.  

The more I look at this the more I think a player like Vita Vea would be a bigger impact on this season than a tackle like Kolton Miller, should McGlinchey be gone.  Although a player like Hernandez or Wynn may still be there.  Tough call.  

Regardless, I see this upcoming season as more like 2011 when Gruden came in with a fresh offense and there was some young talent on defense just starting to make a name for themselves.  2010 was a horrible season and it was so bad that Palmer took his ball and went home.  I am not sure how much the loss of Henry (RIP) affected Palmer, but that 2010 team was a dud.  I think last year's team was more like 2010 than next year's team will be...or at least I am hoping.  

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(04-08-2018, 07:46 PM)N_B Wrote: Not sure where you’re getting your stats. The bengals beat an 11-5 packer team and two 9-7 teams in Pittsburgh and Baltimore 2x. Additionally, they were certainly not outscored by 20 points per game over the final stretch of the season.

Christ, he said SINCE the Bengals win in Pittsburgh... SMH

[McC]

(04-08-2018, 05:18 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Season tickets here I come! 

Seriously though, 2 weeks later I still like the moves, but Marv is still there. So I still see 1st round exit as the ceiling.

I hear they have a new plan for the playoffs, if they get there.  Marvin will suddenly take ill and watch the game from an ICU, whether he wants to or not and whatever he usually does to freak out his whole team will go undone, thus paving the way to a win.  Once that thousand pound gorilla is off everyone's backs, anything might happen.

[*ochocincos*]

(04-08-2018, 05:18 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Season tickets here I come! 

Seriously though, 2 weeks later I still like the moves, but Marv is still there. So I still see 1st round exit as the ceiling.

I still gotta see how the draft plays out to determine my level of optimism.

[3wt]

(04-09-2018, 09:27 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I remember that season very well.  It played out a lot like last season, rather than what you imply might happen this season (although I see your point).  

In 2010, Carlos Dunlap was a rookie that sat for most of the early part of the year, despite not getting much pressure from the starting LDE, Robert Geathers.  He came on very strong at the end of the year, and nearly tied Suh for the rookie lead in sacks with 9.5.  The middle of the defense had Peko and Sims, neither of which were very impactful in a pass rushing situation, while the rookie Geno Atkins sat most of the time.  Though the draft of 2010 might have been one of their best ever, they didn't really get the benefit of those players (except Gresh) that season while they were still in contention.  That sounds a lot like last year.  No Ross, Mixon in rotation, young DEs still sitting behind MJ, etc. 

Another similarity between 2010 and 2017 was the stale coaching of OC Bob Bratkowski.  Saddled with Dennis Roland at RT (again, like last year) but determined to use a downfield passing attack, the offense led the league in INTs and struggled to score points.  Bratkowski had become predictable, and to your point about 2009 being smoke and mirrors, the league had slowed what was a high-powered passing attack in Palmer's early years.  There are many that also though Palmer had still not completely recovered from his elbow injury.  It is often forgotten that former second round pick, Jerome Simpson, got his chance at the end of the season when Chad had an ankle injury to have 18 receptions for 247 yards and 3 TDs in the last two games.  He only had one reception in the previous two seasons.  It would have been nice to have him in the game plan before the season was over.  

Fast forward to the upcoming 2018 season:  A fresh OC with the chance to work an entire off season to install his offense.  No longer stuck with the tired Paul Alexander and his patty-cake slide blocking (puke) that Dave Lapham (who normally never shows real criticism would lose it during games on a third and one rush that would lose two yards with something like "Just line up and drive the guy in front of you!".  Also an infusion (I am hoping) of speed and youth at WR with Ross, Malone, and Core to join the returning Eifert.  Kroft filled in quite well, thank you, and I would like to see more of the two of them on the field in the red zone.  The biggest addition (by subtraction?) will be Ced O being replaced by Cordy Glenn, and even if there ends up being a health issue there, we now know Boling can move to LT if needed.  Mixon and Gio really came on at the end of the year under Lazor and the new blocking scheme.  A new center is a certainty, as well as potentially a new RT in Hart, a draft pick, or an improved Fisher after a cardiac tune-up.  

On the defense, the biggest question mark at LB and DT have been answered with the signings of Brown and Baker, and there will most certainly be draft picks used at the LB and DT position as well.  Glasgow should be even better in year two.  Burfict's suspension won't help matters, but at least we have a veteran in the LB corps that is a tackling machine in Brown.  Not sure what to make of Austin at DC.  At the very least we have a rising star in WJIII, some young speedsters in Willis and Lawson, and the veterans of Dunlap and Geno.  

The more I look at this the more I think a player like Vita Vea would be a bigger impact on this season than a tackle like Kolton Miller, should McGlinchey be gone.  Although a player like Hernandez or Wynn may still be there.  Tough call.  

Regardless, I see this upcoming season as more like 2011 when Gruden came in with a fresh offense and there was some young talent on defense just starting to make a name for themselves.  2010 was a horrible season and it was so bad that Palmer took his ball and went home.  I am not sure how much the loss of Henry (RIP) affected Palmer, but that 2010 team was a dud.  I think last year's team was more like 2010 than next year's team will be...or at least I am hoping.  

A lot will depend on how Glen, Brown and Baker turn out - and then there's the draft.

But I like the effort, I am intrigued by the coaching changes - and maybe most of all by the opportunity of Lazor to have a fresh start to the season with his own offense installed.   I really like this guy.   He seems smart.   I think he'll work well the new coaching staff.  It won't hurt that he's already worked with the WR coach.

And I think Marvin's focus is more win now than it has been, which I think bodes well for playing his best players whether they are experienced of not.   I don't think he's going to play things as "safe" as he has.   Hopefully that will change the whole focus on how we orchestrate the end of games.

We still have considerable needs:  the D line as well as the O line and LB.   And they are clearly interested in an upgrade at safety.   We could not stop the run, run at will or generate turnovers last year.   Those are clearly targets they are attempting to address.

So yeah.   It's not a reason for unbridled optimism.   But I certainly think they have a handle on our needs.

The draft will be very telling.  They may not do exactly what we want (all of us want the offensive line to be addressed early - especially center).   I will suspend judgment as long as the picks they make are good players that address those issues.

[N_B]

(04-09-2018, 09:35 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Christ, he said SINCE the Bengals win in Pittsburgh... SMH

(1) the final point still stands

(2) we played only 2 meaningful games over the last 7 against above 500 teams. We barely lost at SD and got beat soundly by MINN. why just disregard a larger sample size of the first half of the season for just 2 games worth of info?

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(04-09-2018, 07:10 PM)N_B Wrote: (1) the final point still stands

(2) we played only 2 meaningful games over the last 7 against above 500 teams. We barely lost at SD and got beat soundly by MINN. why just disregard a larger sample size of the first half of the season for just 2 games worth of info?

1. No it doesn't.

2. The only game that we played valiantly in defeat, was the SD game (Leon Hall's ONLY bad game of the year and it was horrific; he shuts down VJax and possibly gets a pick or two, he's not only in the PB but probably an AP); we were trounced by Minnesota (ugh), played a throwaway game against the Jets (where we were trounced) and we played like utter crap against a vastly inferior Raiders team. So no, the losses we mounted were awful losses, save for 1.

For the billions of things to nitpick Fred on, this is not one of them.

[grampahol]

I'm worried that the 'pundits' will start talking this team up big time between now and halfway through the season. If that happens they need to sequester the entire team and have them locked away from any news sources so they don't get too big for their britches.. It's probably not legal to have a miniature prison built in the bowels of pbs to keep players as prisoners of the team, but it almost seems like a good idea . 

[N_B]

(04-10-2018, 09:15 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: 1. No it doesn't.

2. The only game that we played valiantly in defeat, was the SD game (Leon Hall's ONLY bad game of the year and it was horrific; he shuts down VJax and possibly gets a pick or two, he's not only in the PB but probably an AP); we were trounced by Minnesota (ugh), played a throwaway game against the Jets (where we were trounced) and we played like utter crap against a vastly inferior Raiders team. So no, the losses we mounted were awful losses, save for 1.

For the billions of things to nitpick Fred on, this is not one of them.

Uh, the final point is fact. We weren’t outscored by that many over the last X games. And the only losses we were discussing were to above 500 teams per his post, which said that we beat teams by smoke and mirrors. I don’t think that’s the case.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(04-10-2018, 01:36 PM)N_B Wrote: Uh, the final point is fact. We weren’t outscored by that many over the last X games. And the only losses we were discussing were to above 500 teams per his post, which said that we beat teams by smoke and mirrors. I don’t think that’s the case.

The KC game was due to smoke and mirrors, as both teams played like crap and we got lucky, truly. Detroit game too, would've been miles different if Fanene doesn't get the pick-6; Ced barely got 100 yard rushing on, I believe it was 36 carries. Horrible.

But those weren't .500 teams, so what are you trying to say?

I see where he overstated the points against, you're right there (he overstated by about 60 points), but HIS point still stands; that team, at the end of the season, looked tired and not competent on offense (Carsone's fault, primarily, as Ced was awesome in the last 5 games, including the playoffs).

I'd refrain posting, "fact," everywhere, especially when it involves an opinion.