Trade Back with CLE Mock

[*ochocincos*]

CLE trades up to 21 to get their preferred CB now that McCourty was released and Randall was moved to FS. Browns give 33 and 64 (800 pts vs 850 pts trade value chart - Browns have to overspend due to inter-division. They are fine with this because they have pick 35 still)

33) Frank Ragnow, C/OG Arkansas - Bengals met with Ragnow privately at his pro day. The interest is there. He also was the top rated C in NCAA before his injury. Very good, consistent tape both against run and pass all three years in college. The Bengals won't get that 5th-year option since it'd be in the 2nd round, but they do make sure to get an outstanding C.

46) Mark Andrews, TE Oklahoma - Andrews's Combine performance may have convinced people he's not worth a first rounder, but I don't think he falls out of the second round. Bengals take him at 46 and get a great pass catcher while they work on his blocking as a rookie.

64) Tyrell Crosby, RT/RG Oregon - Mean, road grading RT that should push Fisher. Crosby also projected possible RG candidate. Perhaps both Fisher and Crosby on the right side if Westerman or Redmond doesn't wow at the RG spot in TC.

77) Jessie Bates III, FS Wake Forest - Coverage FS the Bengals have needed since Nelson left. I'd expect to see Bates see nickel work while Williams plays early downs (or Williams moves to nickel LB).

100) Shaquem Griffin, OLB UCF - Elite playmaker that flies around the field. Bengals could use a LB like Griffin.

112) Tyquan Lewis, DE Ohio St - Base 4-3 DE for depth. Lewis is solid against both the run and pass.

151) Darius Phillips, CB/RS Western Michigan - Playmaker at CB and as a return specialist. Considered undersized by most (about same size as Adam Jones) and not good against the run. Will have to start out as a nickel CB.

158) Mike McCray, LB Michigan - Potential MIKE or SAM that excels in the run game but struggles some in coverage. If Lawson struggles as an early-down SAM, I could see McCray filling that starting role. If Lawson can handle those duties, I can see McCray as an early-down MIKE or depth for MIKE/SAM. Would allow Bengals to free up cap by releasing VRey.

170) Jaleel Scott, WR New Mexico St - Late-round WR to compete for a final roster spot with Core (or surprising twist where all the young WRs look good in camp, LaFell is released).

249) Josh Adams, RB Notre Dame - Replacement for Jeremy Hill. Good downhill runner that has good long speed and can catch, but does need OL help to get production.

252) Bruce Hector, DT USF - Sleeper backup 3T to compete for one of the final DL spots. Expect he would land on PS.

253) Maea Teuhema, OG/OT Southeastern Louisiana - Big, strong blocker with position versatility who used to play at LSU but was suspended due to a team violation. Big contributor to Fournette's elite 2015 rushing season. Could be a nice steal if available, but I think he should be given most sites have him projected as UDFA.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-29-2018, 04:07 PM)ochocincos Wrote: CLE trades up to 21 to get their preferred CB now that McCourty was released and Randall was moved to FS. Browns give 33 and 64 (800 pts vs 850 pts trade value chart - Browns have to overspend due to inter-division. They are fine with this because they have pick 35 still)

33) Frank Ragnow, C/OG Arkansas - Bengals met with Ragnow privately at his pro day. The interest is there. He also was the top rated C in NCAA before his injury. Very good, consistent tape both against run and pass all three years in college. The Bengals won't get that 5th-year option since it'd be in the 2nd round, but they do make sure to get an outstanding C.

46) Mark Andrews, TE Oklahoma - Andrews's Combine performance may have convinced people he's not worth a first rounder, but I don't think he falls out of the second round. Bengals take him at 46 and get a great pass catcher while they work on his blocking as a rookie.

64) Tyrell Crosby, RT/RG Oregon - Mean, road grading RT that should push Fisher. Crosby also projected possible RG candidate. Perhaps both Fisher and Crosby on the right side if Westerman or Redmond doesn't wow at the RG spot in TC.

77) Jessie Bates III, FS Wake Forest - Coverage FS the Bengals have needed since Nelson left. I'd expect to see Bates see nickel work while Williams plays early downs (or Williams moves to nickel LB).

100) Shaquem Griffin, OLB UCF - Elite playmaker that flies around the field. Bengals could use a LB like Griffin.

112) Tyquan Lewis, DE Ohio St - Base 4-3 DE for depth. Lewis is solid against both the run and pass.

151) Darius Phillips, CB/RS Western Michigan - Playmaker at CB and as a return specialist. Considered undersized by most (about same size as Adam Jones) and not good against the run. Will have to start out as a nickel CB.

158) Mike McCray, LB Michigan - Potential MIKE or SAM that excels in the run game but struggles some in coverage. If Lawson struggles as an early-down SAM, I could see McCray filling that starting role. If Lawson can handle those duties, I can see McCray as an early-down MIKE or depth for MIKE/SAM. Would allow Bengals to free up cap by releasing VRey.

170) Jaleel Scott, WR New Mexico St - Late-round WR to compete for a final roster spot with Core (or surprising twist where all the young WRs look good in camp, LaFell is released).

249) Josh Adams, RB Notre Dame - Replacement for Jeremy Hill. Good downhill runner that has good long speed and can catch, but does need OL help to get production.

252) Bruce Hector, DT USF - Sleeper backup 3T to compete for one of the final DL spots. Expect he would land on PS.

253) Maea Teuhema, OG/OT Southeastern Louisiana - Big, strong blocker with position versatility who used to play at LSU but was suspended due to a team violation. Big contributor to Fournette's elite 2015 rushing season. Could be a nice steal if available, but I think he should be given most sites have him projected as UDFA.

Hail to the King of Mocks.

Dalton approves as do we all. :andy:

[*Go Cards*]

Like it, but do not see MB trading with Cleveland after AJM deal unless he rapes them.

Just do not see him doing them any favors for fair market value.

Especially this soon after Browns left him holding an empty bag with that very same pick involved.

[schroomytunes]

The only way I trade with Cleveland here is I want their 33 and 35!!! If you trade within the division you better be able to pony up a little more!

[*ochocincos*]

(03-30-2018, 01:10 AM)schroomytunes Wrote: The only way I trade with Cleveland here is I want their 33 and 35!!! If you trade within the division you better be able to pony up a little more!

The purpose of this trade back scenario was because the Bengals are interested in Ragnow/Price and don't want to spend Pick 21 on either of them. Plus, they want to get an extra Day 2 pick to help try to "Win now" which was spoken by Katie Blackburn this week at the Orlando ownership meetings.

I don't see the Browns being willing to give up 33 and 35 just for pick 21 because that's a difference in 330 trade value chart points or the equivalent of a pick in the 50's, but perhaps they'd be willing to include their 4th rounder (114) along with 33 and 64 to help sweeten the deal.

EDIT - Or what about this? CLE gives 33, 35, and 64 (1400 trade value pts) for 21 and 46 (1240 trade value pts).

[*Go Cards*]

Understand that your scenario is beneficial for Bengals as well. Just see bitterness over the last deal souring efforts.

Could definitely see a similar move with another team though and like all you have selected.

Off the tracks of post and apologize.

But am worried sick about my boy Lamar Jackson landing in Pittsburgh. Tomlin was at his pro day where he reportedly threw very well. Plus Tomlin was speaking of how well he reads defenses.

This would be my biggest nightmare come true if it happens. Any freakin team but them.

[J24]

(03-30-2018, 11:19 AM)Go Cards Wrote: Understand that your scenario is beneficial for Bengals as well. Just see bitterness over the last deal souring efforts.

Could definitely see a similar move with another team though and like all you have selected.

Off the tracks of post and apologize.

But am worried sick about my boy Lamar Jackson landing in Pittsburgh. Tomlin was at his pro day where he reportedly threw very well. Plus Tomlin was speaking of how well he reads defenses.

This would be my biggest nightmare come true if it happens. Any freakin team but them.

I doubt the Steelers draft a QB early because they desperately need a LB to replace Shazier. 

[*ochocincos*]

(03-30-2018, 11:32 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I doubt the Steelers draft a QB early because they desperately need a LB to replace Shazier. 

I've seen a couple mocks with Vander Esch or Evans going to PIT. Would make sense.

[*Go Cards*]

(03-30-2018, 11:32 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I doubt the Steelers draft a QB early because they desperately need a LB to replace Shazier. 

Hope you are right. But pretty sure they Mike Tomlin was not here in person to scout any Louisville LBers for early picks. 

Maybe OLB Hearns for later in draft or CB Jaire Alexander for first two rounds.  Doubt he will make it to steelers in 2nd though and would have to be in 1st. Which is a possibility. 

But he spoke specifically of Lamar Jacksons pro day.   Probably a smoke screen (wish Bengals would learn this) and hope so, but just as Ocho has seen LBers mocked to them, Lamar also has been mocked to them as well. 

Still agree with you guys that it is an improbability but will not sleep well until Super LaMario is not a steeler.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-30-2018, 09:56 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The purpose of this trade back scenario was because the Bengals are interested in Ragnow/Price and don't want to spend Pick 21 on either of them. Plus, they want to get an extra Day 2 pick to help try to "Win now" which was spoken by Katie Blackburn this week at the Orlando ownership meetings.

I don't see the Browns being willing to give up 33 and 35 just for pick 21 because that's a difference in 330 trade value chart points or the equivalent of a pick in the 50's, but perhaps they'd be willing to include their 4th rounder (114) along with 33 and 64 to help sweeten the deal.

EDIT - Or what about this? CLE gives 33, 35, and 64 (1400 trade value pts) for 21 and 46 (1240 trade value pts).

I like your other trade too, nice thoughts all around Ocho and major props for doing your homework.

(03-30-2018, 11:37 AM)ochocincos Wrote: I've seen a couple mocks with Vander Esch or Evans going to PIT. Would make sense.

I would rather them get Vander Esch than Rashaan, Evans is too good too be a Stealer.

Nothing against Vander Esch, just think he is way more raw.

[The Real Deal]

I’m with the others that are saying mike brown will not trade with Cleveland unless he can completely undress them. He hates Cleveland as much or more than the fan base hates pittsburgh.

[3wt]

(03-29-2018, 04:07 PM)ochocincos Wrote: CLE trades up to 21 to get their preferred CB now that McCourty was released and Randall was moved to FS. Browns give 33 and 64 (800 pts vs 850 pts trade value chart - Browns have to overspend due to inter-division. They are fine with this because they have pick 35 still)

33) Frank Ragnow, C/OG Arkansas - Bengals met with Ragnow privately at his pro day. The interest is there. He also was the top rated C in NCAA before his injury. Very good, consistent tape both against run and pass all three years in college. The Bengals won't get that 5th-year option since it'd be in the 2nd round, but they do make sure to get an outstanding C.

46) Mark Andrews, TE Oklahoma - Andrews's Combine performance may have convinced people he's not worth a first rounder, but I don't think he falls out of the second round. Bengals take him at 46 and get a great pass catcher while they work on his blocking as a rookie.

64) Tyrell Crosby, RT/RG Oregon - Mean, road grading RT that should push Fisher. Crosby also projected possible RG candidate. Perhaps both Fisher and Crosby on the right side if Westerman or Redmond doesn't wow at the RG spot in TC.

77) Jessie Bates III, FS Wake Forest - Coverage FS the Bengals have needed since Nelson left. I'd expect to see Bates see nickel work while Williams plays early downs (or Williams moves to nickel LB).

100) Shaquem Griffin, OLB UCF - Elite playmaker that flies around the field. Bengals could use a LB like Griffin.

112) Tyquan Lewis, DE Ohio St - Base 4-3 DE for depth. Lewis is solid against both the run and pass.

151) Darius Phillips, CB/RS Western Michigan - Playmaker at CB and as a return specialist. Considered undersized by most (about same size as Adam Jones) and not good against the run. Will have to start out as a nickel CB.

158) Mike McCray, LB Michigan - Potential MIKE or SAM that excels in the run game but struggles some in coverage. If Lawson struggles as an early-down SAM, I could see McCray filling that starting role. If Lawson can handle those duties, I can see McCray as an early-down MIKE or depth for MIKE/SAM. Would allow Bengals to free up cap by releasing VRey.

170) Jaleel Scott, WR New Mexico St - Late-round WR to compete for a final roster spot with Core (or surprising twist where all the young WRs look good in camp, LaFell is released).

249) Josh Adams, RB Notre Dame - Replacement for Jeremy Hill. Good downhill runner that has good long speed and can catch, but does need OL help to get production.

252) Bruce Hector, DT USF - Sleeper backup 3T to compete for one of the final DL spots. Expect he would land on PS.

253) Maea Teuhema, OG/OT Southeastern Louisiana - Big, strong blocker with position versatility who used to play at LSU but was suspended due to a team violation. Big contributor to Fournette's elite 2015 rushing season. Could be a nice steal if available, but I think he should be given most sites have him projected as UDFA.

You referenced this mock in the Ragnow thread.   Actually it not only seems like a great idea it seems feasible.   I would be very happy with this draft, although I think I'd prefer a defensive tackle at the 46 spot instead of the TE.  Andrews is a heck of a TE though.

I LOVE Crosby, Bates and Griffin.

I'm on board.

[3wt]

(03-30-2018, 09:56 AM)ochocincos Wrote: The purpose of this trade back scenario was because the Bengals are interested in Ragnow/Price and don't want to spend Pick 21 on either of them. Plus, they want to get an extra Day 2 pick to help try to "Win now" which was spoken by Katie Blackburn this week at the Orlando ownership meetings.

I don't see the Browns being willing to give up 33 and 35 just for pick 21 because that's a difference in 330 trade value chart points or the equivalent of a pick in the 50's, but perhaps they'd be willing to include their 4th rounder (114) along with 33 and 64 to help sweeten the deal.

EDIT - Or what about this? CLE gives 33, 35, and 64 (1400 trade value pts) for 21 and 46 (1240 trade value pts).

I like this too.   Could pick up two stud players at 33 and 35 with a good player at 64.   Good thinking.  They need to hire you Sir.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-30-2018, 01:30 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I like your other trade too, nice thoughts all around Ocho and major props for doing your homework.


I would rather them get Vander Esch than Rashaan, Evans is too good too be a Stealer.

Nothing against Vander Esch, just think he is way more raw.

I thought the same thing with Smith-Schuster. I liked the guy entering the draft and liked him more when I found out he was a DBZ fan.
He's become such a toolbag after a year in Pittsburgh though.

[3wt]

(03-30-2018, 01:55 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: I’m with the others that are saying mike brown will not trade with Cleveland unless he can completely undress them. He hates Cleveland as much or more than the fan base hates pittsburgh.

Actually I think he'd be all over this.  We get to address more needs with quality players we are interested in and have smaller contracts for more players.  Plus there's the whole giving Marvin his way this year which I think was part of the agreement for his coming back.

Hope it works out.   I love the idea.

[The Real Deal]

(03-30-2018, 02:48 PM)3wt Wrote: Actually I think he'd be all over this.  We get to address more needs with quality players we are interested in and have smaller contracts for more players.  Plus there's the whole giving Marvin his way this year which I think was part of the agreement for his coming back.

Hope it works out.   I love the idea.

I see the appeal. But he is a stubborn old bird.

[3wt]

(03-30-2018, 02:56 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: I see the appeal. But he is a stubborn old bird.

Yeah but his crumb snatcher is asserting herself.  She and Marvin would have him in a pincer move...

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(03-30-2018, 02:47 PM)ochocincos Wrote: I thought the same thing with Smith-Schuster. I liked the guy entering the draft and liked him more when I found out he was a DBZ fan.
He's become such a toolbag after a year in Pittsburgh though.

He caught the Armpitt doosh bag disease man. Sucks for him and sucks for the next one up.

They just don't know it yet.

[*ochocincos*]

(03-30-2018, 01:55 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: I’m with the others that are saying mike brown will not trade with Cleveland unless he can completely undress them. He hates Cleveland as much or more than the fan base hates pittsburgh.

See, I disagree. Cleveland was "this" close to giving up way too much for McCarron, who got paid peanuts on the open market.
Mike Brown might consider Cleveland as the only other team besides Buffalo who will actually consider ever trading with him.
Plus, we don't 100% know that the Browns sabotaged the McCarron trade at the last minute and there would (or should) be lessons learned to try to workout a draft pick trade with up to 4 weeks ahead of time. It doesn't have to be done at the last second like the McCarron trade went down.

Bottom line is the Browns have a very solid OL (minus LT now though), 2-3 good WRs (Gordon, Landry, Coleman), a 1st rounder at TE (Njoku), and two good RBs (Hyde, Duke).
They have pretty good starters on the DL in Garrett, Ogbah, and Ogunjobi. Nassib and Orchard are solid rotational DEs.
Collins and Kirksey are good LBs.
They have solid DBs in Carrie, Randall, and Peppers. But they could use a dynamic CB1.
They could be just a few solid-or-better players away from actually doing something in a year or two. If they traded up to 21, they would have three 1st rounders to fill those remaining spots.
It would make sense for them to call Cincy about a possible trade-up.

[The Real Deal]

(03-30-2018, 03:51 PM)ochocincos Wrote: See, I disagree. Cleveland was "this" close to giving up way too much for McCarron, who got paid peanuts on the open market.

I feel like this kind of solidifies my point though. He was willing to make that trade only because he was undressing them. If the Browns did not intentionally botch it, that is the best mistake they have ever made.