Welcome Sam Hubbard and Malik Jefferson!

[Sled21]

(04-28-2018, 09:51 AM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: he's has terrible instincts.. would be bad to watch him drop n play zone.    bit he is fast n is explosive which is good 

Burfict has tremendous instincts..... hopefully it will rub off on him.

[HarleyDog]

(04-28-2018, 01:43 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't feel blown away by tonight's picks and would've preferred seeing 1 more o-lineman. We did need new blood at all these positions, so I don't hate the picks, but it feels like we're leaving the line unfinished.

Still a lot a good OL talent out there. I don’t think we’re done yet.

[redwood]

(04-27-2018, 11:32 PM)michaelsean Wrote: My daughter went to grade school with Sam and now at OSU so that’s pretty cool. I don’t mind him in the 3rd. Thought people were nuts talking about him late 1st early 2nd.

I saw Sam a few times when he was an all State S at Moeller.   while the Bengals LIKE him at DE, I COULD see him dropping 10 lb and being a damn good LB.  he has DB experience. He has pass rush experience, he's real quick to read plays.

Anyhow..... I look for the Bengals to  fill in some Depth in 4-7.  We've got SOME goodies toward NEED. Now we'll look more for the VALUE guy.
Rd 6+7 in particular you look for the guy with SOME upside, a particular skill or talent that can make the roster, can emerge. In EVERY  Draft cycle there's a handful of guys who go late, or undrafted but emerge as good players.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-27-2018, 11:28 PM)Domata94 Wrote: Orlando Brown was the most notable guy available... after Hubbard was the first pick, I wanted Brown to be the other one. That being said, it felt right that he went to the Ravens.

I really wanted Brown and Shaq Griffin, even though I knew they weren't taking Griffin.

I was also hopeful they would go after one of the two DTs with one of those two picks:  Phillips or Hurst.  I understand now that although Hurst was cleared medically, that many teams took him off their board.  I would absolutely take that risk with our fourth rounder.  He is a first round talent.  

The only thing that would make me happier is to still get Griffin.  He would be an immediate special teams demon, and I love his coverage abilities in nickel.  We only have Brown as a one year deal.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-27-2018, 11:28 PM)StoneTheCrow Wrote: Aka white guy.

Aka Lacrosse guy...our last Lacrosse guy looked very promising before injury.  (David Pollack)

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-28-2018, 12:21 AM)thegimp Wrote: Orlando Brown is a terrible fit for this team.  I'd venture to say terrible fit for the NFL.  He is way too slow to set the edge and way too tall to play guard.  He is nothing more than a big body.  He will need a ton of coaching, his hands are weak and his footwork leaves a lot to be desired.  It worked in college because of his size, but in the NFL where he will matchup against big and very athletic DE every week his size won't be able to overcompensate for his lack of athleticism.  I am very happy we didn't take him.

He may not have been a fit for most teams at LT, but he is a unique talent at RT.  So the kid took time off after a bowl game to rest and recover vs. wearing his body out before the season even started as we have seen time and time again.  He was much improved just three weeks later at his pro day, and his tape doesn't lie.  He is a rare human being with a 7' wingspan and good feet.  

He was a consensus 1st round pick by EVERY SCOUT until the combine.  Tape, not underwear Olympics.   

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-28-2018, 12:39 AM)BonnieBengal Wrote: Agree.  That was the 2015 draft:  It was pretty bad.

1.Ogbuehi 1st round bust.  

2. Fisher 2nd round probably a bust. 
3. Tyler Kroft
3. Dawson also third round.  No longer on the team.  
4. Josh Shaw 
4. Marcus Hardison also fourth round (no longer on the team)
5.  C.J. Uzomah
6. Derron Smith (No longer on the team)
7.Mario Alford (No longer on the team)

Wow.  Didn't realize they didn't get a single starter out of that group except for perhaps Fisher....and he has struggled.  

[Luvnit2]

(04-27-2018, 10:55 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Depth at DE and a competitor at LB.  Bengal defense getting stronger!

Question becomes why all the emphasis on defense in 2018 so far? We had the worst ranked offense in the NFL in 2017. Is it banking on Ross, Eifert, addition of Glenn, Boyd out of dog house and new OC and line coach to make drastic improvements?

Special teams should be special as the 3 drafted so far that play defense all should be significant special teams studs in 2018.

[Shake n Blake]

(04-28-2018, 10:00 AM)Sled21 Wrote: 7 picks today..... lot's of good players still out there....

(04-28-2018, 10:15 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Still a lot a good OL talent out there. I don’t think we’re done yet.

Well hopefully it's our first pick today. I don't recall many 5th-7th round linemen starting from day one. Those are usually developmental players or bench dwellers. I'm not one of those who believes every late round guy is destined to be a hidden gem.
 

(04-28-2018, 11:06 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Aka Lacrosse guy...our last Lacrosse guy looked very promising before injury.  (David Pollack)

Funny, I always thought David Pollack looked like the lacrosse player from American Pie. The one they call Nova. 

[thegimp]

(04-28-2018, 11:11 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: He may not have been a fit for most teams at LT, but he is a unique talent at RT.  So the kid took time off after a bowl game to rest and recover vs. wearing his body out before the season even started as we have seen time and time again.  He was much improved just three weeks later at his pro day, and his tape doesn't lie.  He is a rare human being with a 7' wingspan and good feet.  

He was a consensus 1st round pick by EVERY SCOUT until the combine.  Tape, not underwear Olympics.   

UMMMM, pro day is underwear olympics, and no not every scout...there is/was plenty of commentary on his lack of hand position (which negates any wingspan), his terrible center of gravity (mainly his height, but also being very top heavy), and his baby bambi footwork in the passing game.  Sure you won't be able to bull rush this kid in the running game, but Brown is the type of RT that guys like Carlos have made a career out of.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-28-2018, 12:49 AM)TheBengalsMind Wrote: It's hard to hate on Sam Hubbard because he's from Cincinnati. He probably dreamed of playing for us as a kid.

He might have had the highest football IQ of any defensive player this year. He has the heart and motor.

However, having said it's hard to hate on him, that's exactly what I'm about to do.

He had 42 tackles, I believe, and 7 sacks. The only reason he came out his JR year is because next year's DE class was stronger.

If he goes to the 5-7 round next year he's not gonna make as much.

I dare anybody to look at his tape and say his play blows you away, cause it won't. It's solid.

There's only 1 reason he declined to do the bench press and 40 yards dash at the combine. He's weaker in his lower body cause he's had to add 70 pounds in 3 years switching from safety to DE, physical speaking that's not all muscle mass. He did what 16 reps at his pro day?

He can develop his body to get stronger over the years, but it's when you couple that with the reason that he had to make the switch in the first place. He's slow. He runs a 5 flat in the 40 yard dash. If he's gonna have to get bigger to get stronger, then he'll also get slower potentially.

How many successful 5.1 running 4-3 DE'S can you think of in the NFL? He's smart and takes good angles. That can make up for it to a degree, but only a degree.

I think we should of took Phillips from Stanford.

Just look at his tape, then at Sam's. Then give me your honest opinion of who is better.

While I agree about wanting Phillips and DT is a position where we only have so-so talent around Geno, I disagree with your sentiments about Hubbard.  Yes, you can read that he ran a sub 5.0 second 40 time at his pro day and assume he doesn't have the fast-twitch speed to get the edge, but you would be wrong.  He also ran a 6.82 in the three cone drill, one of if not the fastest times for all defensive linemen and edge rushers.  He was also in the top 10% of the participants in the 20 and 60 yard shuttles.  The only times that were better than his in those measures were guys that were in the 245 lb range of speed rushers that can't hold up against the rush. 

Those measures are much more indicative of the skills needed to be an effective edge rusher.  The rest of the crap about adding 70 lbs is just crap.  Marcus Davenport added 100 lbs.  Clay Matthews Junior added 90 lbs.  This happens to late bloomers.  AJ Hawk wasn't 250 lbs wen he left Centerville.  Hubbard played Safety before moving to the line when he filled in to his body.   He has all the tools to be a very effective part of the Bengals defensive line and I am glad that we added depth and competition to this group.  

I could see him rotating at RDE with Lawson and Willis rotating more with Dunlap at LDE.  Keep all four fresh and release the hounds.  

[Luvnit2]

(04-28-2018, 11:04 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I really wanted Brown and Shaq Griffin, even though I knew they weren't taking Griffin.

I was also hopeful they would go after one of the two DTs with one of those two picks:  Phillips or Hurst.  I understand now that although Hurst was cleared medically, that many teams took him off their board.  I would absolutely take that risk with our fourth rounder.  He is a first round talent.  

The only thing that would make me happier is to still get Griffin.  He would be an immediate special teams demon, and I love his coverage abilities in nickel.  We only have Brown as a one year deal.  

I wanted Orlando Brown with pick 76 or 77. No Brown and then Ravens grabbed him which was disappointing.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-28-2018, 11:13 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Wow.  Didn't realize they didn't get a single starter out of that group except for perhaps Fisher....and he has struggled.  

Kroft

[Big Boss]

(04-28-2018, 11:17 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Question becomes why all the emphasis on defense in 2018 so far? We had the worst ranked offense in the NFL in 2017. Is it banking on Ross, Eifert, addition of Glenn, Boyd out of dog house and new OC and line coach to make drastic improvements?

Special teams should be special as the 3 drafted so far that play defense all should be significant special teams studs in 2018.

The offensive line was the cause of much of the offense's woes.  Didn't open up holes for the run game, didn't give Dalton time in the pocket to go through his reads, didn't give receivers time to run their routes and get open.

[fredtoast]

(04-28-2018, 11:13 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Wow.  Didn't realize they didn't get a single starter out of that group except for perhaps Fisher....and he has struggled.  

And that was with 6 picks in the first 4 rounds.

Teams like the Bengals who live and die by the draft can be thrown completely off the rails with one total disaster of a draft like that.

[fredtoast]

(04-28-2018, 11:17 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Question becomes why all the emphasis on defense in 2018 so far? We had the worst ranked offense in the NFL in 2017. Is it banking on Ross, Eifert, addition of Glenn, Boyd out of dog house and new OC and line coach to make drastic improvements?

You answered your own question.  Ross is like adding a new player, and we traded for Glenn.  Plus new OC and line coach will help.

I thought we would draft a TE high this year, but there did not seem to be a lot of highly ranked options.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-28-2018, 11:17 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Question becomes why all the emphasis on defense in 2018 so far? We had the worst ranked offense in the NFL in 2017. Is it banking on Ross, Eifert, addition of Glenn, Boyd out of dog house and new OC and line coach to make drastic improvements?

Special teams should be special as the 3 drafted so far that play defense all should be significant special teams studs in 2018.

We also have a new DC, who is likely looking for players to fit specific niche roles that may be vital to his scheme.  There is also a possibility that some of the developmental "bench stock" is aging and showing no signs of displacing any starters, anytime soon.  They likely don't want to negotiate second contracts with marginal contributors, when it's cheaper to have players on rookie deals, as well as keep the stock youthful.

[Luvnit2]

(04-28-2018, 11:29 AM)Big Boss Wrote: The offensive line was the cause of much of the offense's woes.  Didn't open up holes for the run game, didn't give Dalton time in the pocket to go through his reads, didn't give receivers time to run their routes and get open.

I agree OL and injuries killed the offense. I also saw Atlanta draft a WR early to go with Jones and Sanu so some teams just keep adding great weapons to already great weapons.

[SunsetBengal]

(04-28-2018, 11:29 AM)Big Boss Wrote: The offensive line was the cause of much of the offense's woes.  Didn't open up holes for the run game, didn't give Dalton time in the pocket to go through his reads, didn't give receivers time to run their routes and get open.

(04-28-2018, 11:35 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You answered your own question.  Ross is like adding a new player, and we traded for Glenn.  Plus new OC and line coach will help.

I thought we would draft a TE high this year, but there did not seem to be a lot of highly ranked options.

Both of those^  The arsenal of skill position weapons wasn't the problem, the OL was.  The team is doing a fantastic job of fixing what was a serious problem.  New players in key OL positions, along with a change in coaching and offensive philosophy.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-28-2018, 01:43 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't feel blown away by tonight's picks and would've preferred seeing 1 more o-lineman. We did need new blood at all these positions, so I don't hate the picks, but it feels like we're leaving the line unfinished.

There is no doubt they should have done more than they did last year, which was nothing but hope...and we saw how that panned out.

This year, they turned our first round pick in to Cordy Glenn, a VERY solid LT that is a proven talent.  They got one of the highest rated centers to come out of the draft in several years.  One source had only three centers ranked higher in the past 12 years (I believe it was) and all three of those centers became Pro Bowlers.  They were able to show last year at the end of the season (against two teams needing wins to make the post season) that they could average nearly 5 ypc and over 100 yard rushers (Mixon one game, Gio the other) with Boling at LT, Westerman at LG, and Redmond at RG.  They discovered they didn't just have one solid guard option, but two, behind Boling.  And they signed a massive man in Bobby Hart that will push Jake Fisher at RT.  Fisher has also been given a clean bill of health from his cardiologist.  

Now, all that being said, I would have liked to see Orlando Brown to take over the RT spot, but Hart might be something that Pollack wants.  Big, long, strong...And Pollack would know having faced him twice a year while at the Cowboys.  If he feels comfortable with the RTs he currently has on his staff then I will defer to his judgement.  They also are likely to sign Ced O for his fifth year, making him a swing backup at both tackle spots.  Ced has been a massive disappointment, but I will offer this one thing in his defense.  His injury last year prohibited him from ever playing with the different style of blocking scheme from Lazor and now Pollack.  He deserves a pre-season to show if he can be more useful in this manner.

I am glad they went after Hubbard and Jefferson, although I really like Phillips, and I am thrilled with the offensive line work thus far.