Moving Kirkpatrick Potential

[HarleyDog]

Dre needs to get rid of the drama. He also needs to accept responsibility for his actions. I've seen him too many times waving his arms and running up to refs like he's playing the victim card. Be a F'n man and go play the game. Problem with this dude is he thinks it all revolves around him when it's not. I swear if I ever see him walking off onto the sidelines again laughing after he just cost us a huge PI penalty I'm gonna have a stroke. Overpaid, poopy pants little child is all he is!

[Circleville Guy]

(04-29-2018, 01:09 PM)BengalFanInNJ Wrote: I'm not a huge Kirkpatrick fan myself, but, I don't think you get rid of him unless a team offers something crazy which won't happen. So Antonio Brown and Le'veon Bell abused him last year, they abused a lot of other players as well. I think Teryl Austin and Daronte Jones may be able to help Kirkpatrick improve his game. I think he can still become a Pro-Bowler and leader on this team and I think he wants to be that now with Jones gone.

How long until the "Maybe we should move Kirkpatrick to Safety" posts start?

Let’s hope that he got embarrassed enough last year that he will pick up his game some.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-29-2018, 04:30 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Dre needs to get rid of the drama. He also needs to accept responsibility for his actions. I've seen him too many times waving his arms and running up to refs like he's playing the victim card. Be a F'n man and go play the game. Problem with this dude is he thinks it all revolves around him when it's not. I swear if I ever see him walking off onto the sidelines again laughing after he just cost us a huge PI penalty I'm gonna have a stroke. Overpaid, poopy pants little child is all he is!

He also celebrates like he just made a Super Bowl winning play every time he does anything. So annoying.

[HarleyDog]

(04-29-2018, 04:35 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: He also celebrates like he just made a Super Bowl winning play every time he does anything. So annoying.

I seriously struggle watching him play. Then, when we gave him the contract? I really struggled.

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(04-29-2018, 11:13 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Kirkpatrick is an excellent CB and it would be crazy to get rid of him.

I’m inclined to agree with Fred here. Besides, let’s see how everyone — including Dre — does under new coaches. He was amazing at Alabama after all.

[StLucieBengal]

(04-29-2018, 11:13 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Kirkpatrick is an excellent CB and it would be crazy to get rid of him.

You are correct. It’s madness to get rid of him.

[jowczarski]

I guess it's a good discussion, but he's not going anywhere. And right now, they only have three "proven" corners and honestly, Dennard has just one full season of work and Jackson III just a half. Granted, WJ3 is a start on the make, but Dennard is a free agent after this season. After that? Concerns. Don't know a thing about Russell. We've seen Shaw in corner coverage -- fourth/fifth corner at best. And the Bengals went ahead and said Harris is super raw as a cover corner. Phillips is also a fifth-rounder. Right now, to me, it's a thin room after those three starters.

[BengalsRocker]

"Just give me some scrilla and I'll make him invisible cuz"

[N_B]

(04-29-2018, 09:03 PM)StLucieBengal Wrote: You are correct. It’s madness to get rid of him.

Advanced stats say otherwise

[Socal Bengals fan]

(04-29-2018, 07:53 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I’m inclined to agree with Fred here.  Besides, let’s see how everyone — including Dre — does under new coaches.  He was amazing at Alabama after all.

lol.  he was never amazing at Alabama.   he was a top high school ranked cb coming into Alabama .  at Alabama really didn't anything good or bad there.   during his pro day he was falling all over the place and scouts even questioned how he looked so lost during the pro day

[bengalsturntup926]

I don't hate dre but I don't like him either. I think he does hustle and try hard so I commend him for that. I also think he gets petty calls against him. But none of our corners besides wj3 intercept the ball it's rediculous,and Dre Kirkpatrick isn't a good tackler. In college ,when I checked his tape he was known as a hard hitter. It didn't translate to the nfl.

[Bengal Dude]

Dre is just a meh player to me. I think we panicked when Whit signed elsewhere so we overpaid him so we didn’t lose our 3 biggest free agents entering last season. His contract will not allow us to move on until 2021 at the earliest.

[Bilbo Saggins]

I don't have the stats in front of me, but I have a suspicion that Kirkpatrick is the reason as to why the 3rd down stats were so bad last year. Ever since he was paid he is giving off a stong Leodis McKelvin sort of vibe.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-29-2018, 11:30 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Hopefully now that he’ll finally have competition from Dennard and WJ3 it’ll force him to play his best game. We’ve seen him play well before when he was trying to get paid...

While I think it is putting a better talent at a position that is not his strength (Dennard at slot corner), I like the idea that an injury to either starting CB wouldn't be a death sentence as Dennard could fill in more than adequately.  

I understand where you are coming from, and I agree that Dre is overpaid and too inconsistent, but he is in his prime and in a relatively short amount of time, we will be referring to his deal as a bargain as the numbers continue to soar.  I mean, Kirk Cousins deal?  Wow.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-29-2018, 01:05 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Who are these great 4 or 5 corners we have with NFL experience who will not get burned with rookie mistakes again?

Dennard
Jackson
If no Dre, I don't see one better or close to it than Dre.

Shaw is a safety who is OK.

Help me out, since Jones is gone who else?

Hoping Shaw returns to his early promising form...and I do like KeiVarie Russell, but this point is true.  My question has always been, though, why do we play so much off coverage when we invest so highly in the CB position?  If we want guys that never make plays underneath and they are just there to avoid giving up anything over the top, we could use later round talent for that.  Put them on an island and attack with the rest of your defense.  

WJIII could handle it and I think Dennard could as well.  Dre?  Too inconsistent right now, but I am hoping the new coaching staff can improve upon that.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-29-2018, 01:31 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: If our Offense is unable to put points on the board this season with all the upgrades to the OL and coaching changes, you can pretty much throw in the towel because opposing offenses will shred our secondary this year.

Even as bad as the LB corps was depleted last year, I don't believe this happened.  What makes you think they will "shred" our secondary?

[fredtoast]

(04-29-2018, 11:54 PM)N_B Wrote: Advanced stats say otherwise

Not the ones I have seen.

Post what you are relying on.

[fredtoast]

(04-30-2018, 07:09 AM)SHRacerX Wrote:  My question has always been, though, why do we play so much off coverage when we invest so highly in the CB position?  If we want guys that never make plays underneath and they are just there to avoid giving up anything over the top, we could use later round talent for that.  Put them on an island and attack with the rest of your defense.  

What our CBs do is much more difficult than you give them credit for.  Over the last 4 years (Guenther's OC stint) we have the NUMBER ONE pass efficiency defense in the entire league.  We were numbers one in interceptions and number two in fewest passing tds allowed.

We accomplished this without any great cover safeties or LBs and a pass rush that was far from elite.  

If teams could get these type of results with "later round talent" at CB then they would all be doing it.  But the fact is our CBs are required to do a lot more than you undrestand.  And they do it very well.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-30-2018, 08:39 AM)fredtoast Wrote: What our CBs do is much more difficult than you give them credit for.  Over the last 4 years (Guenther's OC stint) we have the NUMBER ONE pass efficiency defense in the entire league.  We were numbers one in interceptions and number two in fewest passing tds allowed.

We accomplished this without any great cover safeties or LBs and a pass rush that was far from elite.  

If teams could get these type of results with "later round talent" at CB then they would all be doing it.  But the fact is our CBs are required to do a lot more than you undrestand.  And they do it very well.

Your condescending tone of "a lot more than you understand" notwithstanding, the fact is that you are taking a four or five year average on this subject (again) and cherry picking (again) a single stat that tries to support your arguement when, in fact (again) the defense struggled the past two seasons and we repeatedly saw DBs playing off coverage and getting nickel-and-dimed underneath.  

The bottom line is:  what they have been doing isn't working.  That is a part of the reason for the coaching changes. 

[fredtoast]

(04-30-2018, 09:13 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Your condescending tone of "a lot more than you understand" notwithstanding, the fact is that you are taking a four or five year average on this subject (again) and cherry picking (again) a single stat that tries to support your arguement when, in fact (again) the defense struggled the past two seasons and we repeatedly saw DBs playing off coverage and getting nickel-and-dimed underneath.  

The bottom line is:  what they have been doing isn't working.  That is a part of the reason for the coaching changes. 

You need to learn the definition of "cherry picking".  By just looking at one year YOU are the one cherry picking, not me.  You claim that the pass defense has struggled  the past two seasons when in 2016 they ranked 5th in pass efficiency, 4th in interceptions, and 10th in fewest td passes allowed.

You act like you are criticizing Guenthers "scheme", yet you refuse to talk about any other year except 2017.  You act like he played some completely different scheme in '14-'16, but that just is not true.  You are the one "cherry picking".

As far as "reason for the coaching change", the Bengals tried to keep Guenther, but he wanted to go to LA with Gruden.  And not a single other defensive coach was replaced.