Moving Kirkpatrick Potential

[*ochocincos*]

Dre Kirkpatrick isn't some elite CB1 in the league. However, he's fine as a CB2/3. Plus WJ3 still has 2-3 more years on his (cheap) rookie contract and Dennard is set to hit FA after this year. May as well keep Kirkpatrick for the next two years in case Dennard leaves and/or WJ3 until WJ3 is extended.

I want the Bengals to go offense-heavy next year, as I think they could/should be looking at early-round OL, TE, and/or WR prospects.

[XenoMorph]

why wouldn't you want to see what he can do in Austins Defense that uses CBs pretty well

[Au165]

I think the scheme move to more press man is going to help Dre and Dennard more than people realize. Dre played almost exclusively in press man at Alabama.

[N_B]

(04-30-2018, 08:20 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Not the ones I have seen.

Post what you are relying on.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/dre-kirkpatrick/7023

One of the worst rated cornerbacks in the last 2-3 years

[Socal Bengals fan]

damn you and your facts. he's good because Fred says so

[ah5]

DKP has sucked since we lost a true FS. Hopefully he looks better when williams loses his job to the rook.

[bengalsturntup926]

(04-30-2018, 10:00 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: damn you and your facts.  he's good because Fred says so

What Fred says goes 

[Nicomo Cosca]

(04-30-2018, 10:00 PM)Socal Bengals fan Wrote: damn you and your facts. he's good because Fred says so

And Fred will out- lawyer anyone that says different!

[fredtoast]

(04-30-2018, 09:05 PM)N_B Wrote: https://www.profootballfocus.com/nfl/players/dre-kirkpatrick/7023

One of the worst rated cornerbacks in the last 2-3 years

 
Those are not "advanced stats".  It is just subjective garbage.

In 2015 they Hda Dre ranked as the 112th CB behind a bunch of scrubs who barely played when Dre was playing 97% of the snaps on the #4 pass defense in the league and ranking in the top 30 inalmostb all objective stats like "Yards per target", "completion percentage allowed", and "success rate".

PFF also uses a formula that allows a player to be ranked behind another pklayer who both plays fewer snaps and messes up moreoften.

So please explain exactly what "advancved stats" and formula PFF uses because it looks like garbage to me.  It is aflwed formula and the stats they plug in are subjective insstead of objective.

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-30-2018, 11:54 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You need to learn the definition of "cherry picking".  By just looking at one year YOU are the one cherry picking, not me.  You claim that the pass defense has struggled  the past two seasons when in 2016 they ranked 5th in pass efficiency, 4th in interceptions, and 10th in fewest td passes allowed.

You act like you are criticizing Guenthers "scheme", yet you refuse to talk about any other year except 2017.  You act like he played some completely different scheme in '14-'16, but that just is not true.  You are the one "cherry picking".

As far as "reason for the coaching change", the Bengals tried to keep Guenther, but he wanted to go to LA with Gruden.  And not a single other defensive coach was replaced.

17th in 2016 in yards allowed and 18th in 2017 in yards allowed.  We were talking about the strategy of a handful of first round pick CBs playing off coverage and giving up a lot underneath...

Kevin Coyle still on the team?  

[*SHRacerX*]

(04-30-2018, 12:54 PM)Au165 Wrote: I think the scheme move to more press man is going to help Dre and Dennard more than people realize. Dre played almost exclusively in press man at Alabama.

This was a part of what I was trying to say, and that it is a waste of our talents and the considerable resources we utilize on CB by not playing more man coverage.  But Fred will point out that in the 3rd quarter of games started at 1pm against teams that wear white, that we have a top ranked pass defense.  

[fredtoast]

(05-01-2018, 07:16 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: 17th in 2016 in yards allowed and 18th in 2017 in yards allowed.  We were talking about the strategy of a handful of first round pick CBs playing off coverage and giving up a lot underneath...

Kevin Coyle still on the team?  

8th in passing yards allowed in '17.
11th in passing yards allowed in '16.

[fredtoast]

(05-01-2018, 07:18 AM)SHRacerX Wrote:  But Fred will point out that in the 3rd quarter of games started at 1pm against teams that wear white, that we have a top ranked pass defense.  

If we are talking about scheme then I say we look at the entire time Guenther was here running it.

Or should we just look at the one outlier season that supports your position.

Pass rating defense
'14...3rd
'15...5th
'16...5th
'17...13th

Interceptions
'14...3rd
'15...3rd
'16...4th
'17...20th

[Pat5775]

Kirkpatrick is a walking blooper real, his antics on the field are often childish and annoying, and he is just plain embarrassing to have on this team.

I won't miss him when he's gone

[Socal Bengals fan]

Dre is always a step behind the wr. always . every once in a while the ball is over thrown or the wr clearly drops the ball and Dre K acts like he made a game saving Superbowl play. and isnt anyoje else tired of seeing Dre K try to tackle a rb. my god it's awful. gets stiff arm like a little kid.. this guy is over paid and just flat out sucks at football.

[N_B]

(05-01-2018, 06:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote:  
Those are not "advanced stats".  It is just subjective garbage.

In 2015 they Hda Dre ranked as the 112th CB behind a bunch of scrubs who barely played when Dre was playing 97% of the snaps on the #4 pass defense in the league and ranking in the top 30 inalmostb all objective stats like "Yards per target", "completion percentage allowed", and "success rate".

PFF also uses a formula that allows a player to be ranked behind another pklayer who both plays fewer snaps and messes up moreoften.

So please explain exactly what "advancved stats" and formula PFF uses because it looks like garbage to me.  It is aflwed formula and the stats they plug in are subjective insstead of objective.

The metrics you mentioned are included in their measures. Also, it’s irrelevant if he was on a team defense that was highly ranked - he could (and obviously was) an anchor to the team!

I’ll relay on PFF and their “garbage” over the subjective opinion of another fan.

[fredtoast]

(05-01-2018, 08:33 PM)N_B Wrote: The metrics you mentioned are included in their measures.  

No they are not

(05-01-2018, 08:33 PM)N_B Wrote: I’ll relay on PFF and their “garbage” over the subjective opinion of another fan.

I post objective stats to back up what I say.  PFF is the one that uses subjective rankings.  Twoplayers can both do their assigned job, but if a PFF scorer likes wone better he can give him "bonus points" on  a purely subjective basis.

[fredtoast]

(05-01-2018, 08:33 PM)N_B Wrote:  Also, it’s irrelevant if he was on a team defense that was highly ranked - he could (and obviously was) an anchor to the team!

No it isn't.

If your #2 CB is the 112th ranked CB in the league and playing 97% of the snaps then teams exploit that and you don't have a top 5 pass defense.

[HarleyDog]

(05-01-2018, 10:28 AM)Pat5775 Wrote: Kirkpatrick is a walking blooper real, his antics on the field are often childish and annoying, and he is just plain embarrassing to have on this team.

I won't miss him when he's gone

Set him on fire so he doesn’t look silly flapping and waving his arms after every play.

[jwayne]

(04-29-2018, 01:31 PM)Bengalitis Wrote: If our Offense is unable to put points on the board this season with all the upgrades to the OL and coaching changes, you can pretty much throw in the towel because opposing offenses will shred our secondary this year.

Excuse me for calling you out on that one.

The offense is going to be TERRIFYING. You can't teach speed and they have it in spades. If Eifert can stay healthy good, I think Croft proved himself last year and I would take the big wide out from FSU and use him as a TE"Light". 
And OBTW, the offensive line is most likely going to become a VERY good unit.

The defense is going to be even better. You had a MONSTER DT who didn't get to play last year Billings, SCARY STRONG.( I saw him penciled in by Geno) You have Glasgow who was a VERY productive player and NOW you added a BABY GENO. Love it. 
Also, the DB's you dogged got upgraded BIG TIME. The draft choices added SPEED. 2 CB's with 4.45 speed with cover skills, even descent cover skills can be developed into OUTSTANDING because they have RECOVERY SPEED. 
And a Safety who will be the ball hawking safety they need.

Not a big Kirkpatrick fan, IF he is as good as advertised I haven't seen it. I hope I am wrong. He will benefit from the front 7. I don't think blitzing is going to be a major concern. .... LOL

Go Bengals