If Ragnow was really the target at 21...

[Shake n Blake]

(05-07-2018, 10:17 AM)Sled21 Wrote: A torn pec will heal.... no doubt about it. As to Glenn, he missed time due to bone spurs in his ankle. He had the surgery to remove the spurs. No spurs=no injury. He didn't tear anything, sprain anything, or break anything. Spurs, which are no longer there. None issue.....

Bone spurs is about as minor as surgery gets. You always hear about players getting spurs removed and I don't think they ever miss time from it.

Whitworth, Chad and so many Bengals greats have had spurs removed and been fine. 

(05-07-2018, 01:00 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Who the hell is this Ragnow guy?  He must have been the "flavor of the year" over in the draft forum.

I can't believe we got a center as good as Price and there is still a 4 page thread going on about another center.  If we were talking about two guys from the top 5 picks I could understand, but neither one of these guys was especially bad or super elite.  I don't see how there could have been so much difference between them that we would give up picks to take one over the other.  Ragnow was not a "steal" at 20 and Price was not a "reach" at 21.

I'll be honest, I knew way more about Price until all these Ragnow questions started surfacing. 

You'd think all this talk about Ragnow would die down some when people heard that the Lions drafted him to be a Guard.

I guess we got the better true Center prospect. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(05-07-2018, 01:16 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Bone spurs is about as minor as surgery gets. You always hear about players getting spurs removed and I don't think they ever miss time from it.

Whitworth, Chad and so many Bengals greats have had spurs removed and been fine. 


I'll be honest, I knew way more about Price until all these Ragnow questions started surfacing. 

You'd think all this talk about Ragnow would die down some when people heard that the Lions drafted him to be a Guard.

I guess we got the better true Center prospect. 

True about the bone spurs Shake. Glenn is ready to go.

I doubt the Lions will have Ragnow playing Guard. They have a nobody at Center.

Ragnow was a great Center at Arkansas and played Center multiple years in the SEC unlike Price who played Center
just last year. One year. We got the more talented, raw Center prospect.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-07-2018, 01:21 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: True about the bone spurs Shake. Glenn is ready to go.

I doubt the Lions will have Ragnow playing Guard. They have a nobody at Center.

Ragnow was a great Center at Arkansas and played Center multiple years in the SEC unlike Price who played Center
just last year. One year. We got the more talented, raw Center prospect.

I don't see Price as raw. He started 55 straight games along the interior. He won the Rimington, so I'd say his transition to Center went over smoothly. Sure, Ragnow started 33 games at Center and Price started 14, but I wouldn't call Price raw. 

Also, one thing I just noticed is that Ragnow is over 6'5". Almost 1.5 inches taller than Price. Isn't it better for Centers to be on the shorter side?

[fredtoast]

Just think of the awful puns Hobson would have came up with using the name "Ragnow".

That alone makes me happy we drafted "The Price is Right".

[*ochocincos*]

(05-07-2018, 01:08 PM)Sled21 Wrote: Ragnow was barely mentioned until Lap mocked him to us, now it's like we HAD to have him.....

False. There were at least a handful of us in the draft forum for MONTHS clamoring for Ragnow. In fact, I mocked him to the Bengals in my Spooky Mock back in October right after his injury happened. http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Spooky-Mock
Goalpost commented in that thread saying "Ragnow might be the best center in this draft."

A decent number of people here don't start looking into the draft until after the college football season is over, but some of us start looking into next year's class immediately after the previous draft is done and do research throughout the season.

What didn't help Ragnow was he injured his ankle and went on IR in late October, so by the time a majority of people started getting into the draft in January, Ragnow's name hardly came up because he had missed his last five regular season games and bowl game. Plus he wasn't able to perform at the Senior Bowl nor Combine due to said injury. Then he performed very well at his Pro Day, as he was fully recovered, and that brought attention to him. Add in that with the fact Price tore his pec doing the bench at the Combine, and it became only natural that Ragnow would start to get more attention. Guys normally rise and fall in draft stock throughout the year. Ragnow's value was low because of his injury and lack of visibility because of it. As he came more into the spotlight, his stock rose.

[RASCAL]

(05-07-2018, 02:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: False. There were at least a handful of us in the draft forum for MONTHS clamoring for Ragnow. In fact, I mocked him to the Bengals in my Spooky Mock back in October right after his injury happened. http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Spooky-Mock
Goalpost commented in that thread saying "Ragnow might be the best center in this draft."

A decent number of people here don't start looking into the draft until after the college football season is over, but some of us start looking into next year's class immediately after the previous draft is done and do research throughout the season.

What didn't help Ragnow was he injured his ankle and went on IR in late October, so by the time a majority of people started getting into the draft in January, Ragnow's name hardly came up because he had missed his last five regular season games and bowl game. Plus he wasn't able to perform at the Senior Bowl nor Combine due to said injury. Then he performed very well at his Pro Day, as he was fully recovered, and that brought attention to him. Add in that with the fact Price tore his pec doing the bench at the Combine, and it became only natural that Ragnow would start to get more attention. Guys normally rise and fall in draft stock throughout the year. Ragnow's value was low because of his injury and lack of visibility because of it. As he came more into the spotlight, his stock rose.

ragnow is NOT our center. Leave it alone and let this effin thread DIE!!!

[*ochocincos*]

(05-07-2018, 02:43 PM)RASCAL Wrote: ragnow is NOT our center. Leave it alone and let this effin thread DIE!!!

You don't have to click the thread. You don't have to comment either. You are doing the exact thing you don't want to have happen...keeping the thread alive.

[Sled21]

(05-07-2018, 02:32 PM)ochocincos Wrote: False. There were at least a handful of us in the draft forum for MONTHS clamoring for Ragnow. In fact, I mocked him to the Bengals in my Spooky Mock back in October right after his injury happened. http://thebengalsboard.com/Thread-Spooky-Mock
Goalpost commented in that thread saying "Ragnow might be the best center in this draft."

A decent number of people here don't start looking into the draft until after the college football season is over, but some of us start looking into next year's class immediately after the previous draft is done and do research throughout the season.

What didn't help Ragnow was he injured his ankle and went on IR in late October, so by the time a majority of people started getting into the draft in January, Ragnow's name hardly came up because he had missed his last five regular season games and bowl game. Plus he wasn't able to perform at the Senior Bowl nor Combine due to said injury. Then he performed very well at his Pro Day, as he was fully recovered, and that brought attention to him. Add in that with the fact Price tore his pec doing the bench at the Combine, and it became only natural that Ragnow would start to get more attention. Guys normally rise and fall in draft stock throughout the year. Ragnow's value was low because of his injury and lack of visibility because of it. As he came more into the spotlight, his stock rose.

I said "barely mentioned", not "never mentioned"....

[*ochocincos*]

(05-07-2018, 04:14 PM)Sled21 Wrote: I said "barely mentioned", not "never mentioned"....

Fair, you didn't say "never", but "barely" can be subjective because there were at least a few of us who mentioned Ragnow often. So while he may not have been mentioned by a lot of people early on, he was being mentioned by a select few quite a bit. Those who hardly heard anything about Ragnow up until Lap mentioned him either...
1) Didn't really frequent the draft forums until Combine and later
2) Only went off what was (or wasn't) being discussed by NFL Network and ESPN
3) Didn't care to look into Ragnow early on when those few were mentioning him because "most" were not mentioning him.

Regardless, at this point, the members have spoken and a majority preferred the "letting the picks come as they may" approach vs trading up to get their guy. And in this case, it may be because Ragnow vs Price were so close in "perceived" value (we'll have to wait and see if it comes true or not) that it was better to keep the extra pick(s).

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-07-2018, 12:00 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Interesting idea. So that would have likely meant no to Jessie Bates III, and it would have likely meant no to either Hubbard or Jefferson because of the lost 3rd round pick.
What Center (if any) would you have taken at 46 or later?

James Daniels, Isiah Wynn, and Will Hernandez (with the thought of moving Westerman to Center) would have all been solid choices, and had the Bengals given up their fourth (a pick we used on a RB?) to get a top tier offensive lineman AND Derwin James in the first round?  Yes, please.

Derwin James was the highest rated safety on both rush defense and pass defense his sophomore season before his injury his junior year, and again his senior year after his injury.  That kid is a standout talent, and an immediate impact player.  When he dropped to 17, I would have been looking to strike.  

You mentioned not needing JBIII in the second with James on board, I would have loved Duke Dawson, an immediate plug and play slot corner with attitude.  I had him in many of our mocks.  

For a player of James ability, I would have easily let go of Hubbard or Jefferson.  Just my two cents

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-07-2018, 12:30 PM)yang Wrote: The Bengals are idiots for not trading up two spots.  I believe they were caught flat-footed and acted irrationally.  Giving up a 4th to get Ragnow over Price was a no-brainer.

PFF Had Ragnow the 2nd best offensive lineman in the draft behind (only) Quinton Nelson.

Arkansas C Frank Ragnow starts the 2017 season as the only PFF Day 1 projected center. Based on his performance in 2016 and that projection,  he currently sits as the top center of the 2018 class.

•In 2016, Ragnow graded very well earning the top overall grade among all FBS centers at 89.4, which was the third highest grade among centers in the PFF College Era (2014-present).

•Ragnow excels most in the run game as his run-block grade 88.9 ranked No. 1 among all FBS centers in 2016. Ragnow’s 92.9 percent run-block success ranked No. 2 among returning draft-eligible centers.

•When it comes to his run-blocking, Ragnow was consistently good. Not only did he have the lowest percentage of negatively-graded blocks in the run game of the draft class but he also had the second-highest percentage of positively graded blocks.

•Ragnow wasn’t elite in pass-protection but still performed at an above average level for his position. His 2016 pass blocking efficiency of 98.0 ranked No. 21 among returning draft-eligible centers. He allowed just 12 total pressures on 487 pass block snaps.

Billy Price was rated 5th at his position and 69th overall.

Price ranked 27th among draft-eligible centers in pass-blocking efficiency in 2017 (97.6).
•He ranked sixth among draft-eligible centers in run-blocking success percentage in 2017 (92.0).

Did you consider that Price was one of the top rated Guards until moving to center last year?  I also love Price's leadership.  I think we will be very happy with Price.  This offense needed someone with a chip on their shoulder, and I will take a guy that is allergic to losing any day.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-07-2018, 12:47 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You just might of caught ole SHRacer there Ocho.

Ole?  Just because I am staring down the barrel of 50 doesn't make me "ole", but I think you meant "ol" anyways. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-07-2018, 12:54 PM)Sled21 Wrote: This is just the DeCastro/Zeitler thread all over again. Back then, lot's of people were hand wringing and whining about not getting DeCastro, only to have him get injured while Zeitler started day 1..... Billy Price has proven he is durable with 55 starts at OSU....

True.  And had Price put the 225 bar up 40 times as he had been rumored to do in training sessions, we would all be talking about how we just drafted the strongest center in history...instead of a partially torn pec. 

I wouldn't have been sad by any means with Ragnow, but I am sure happy they got Price.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-06-2018, 04:35 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Of course not. For the most part I believe it's MB trying to get talent cheaper. However, The last 2 1st rounds had injuries and even though that kinda blows my theory up, I still think it has merit. However, I do like what Duke said about JR.

https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2018/05/06/john-ross-story-not-written-duke-tobin/

“The story is not written on John Ross. John is going to write that story this year, the next year and the year after. We have a lot of regard for him. We are very positive about him. He appears to be pretty close to healthy. He had his other shoulder done, but he is out there running routes and looks pretty good. New coaching staff, new offensive coaches are really positive from what they’ve seen so far.”

Price has to write his story.

From the article, in reference to the Bengals:   "that typically leans conservative and plays veterans over younger guys."


Get em', Fred....tell them how we play the same % of rookies, blah, blah, blah...

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-07-2018, 02:25 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I don't see Price as raw. He started 55 straight games along the interior. He won the Rimington, so I'd say his transition to Center went over smoothly. Sure, Ragnow started 33 games at Center and Price started 14, but I wouldn't call Price raw. 

Also, one thing I just noticed is that Ragnow is over 6'5". Almost 1.5 inches taller than Price. Isn't it better for Centers to be on the shorter side?

Leverage and also when your QB isn't 6'5"....this is a good point.  

Ethan Pocic was drafted in the 2nd round last year by Seattle and at 6'6", I wondered about his ability to stay low and drive block and/or Dalton's ability to see over him.  He was their backup center and played both guard spots filling in for injured players last year.  I don't know how I would rate his performance since he was a center in college, but they didn't seem to have a great offense last year.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(05-07-2018, 02:43 PM)RASCAL Wrote: ragnow is NOT our center. Leave it alone and let this effin thread DIE!!!

Awww, C'mon.  The only thread that will be more fun than this one is after McCarron wins week 1 with a spectacular day and we will have a 15 page thread on why he should have started over Dalton.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-08-2018, 06:13 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Leverage and also when your QB isn't 6'5"....this is a good point.  

Ethan Pocic was drafted in the 2nd round last year by Seattle and at 6'6", I wondered about his ability to stay low and drive block and/or Dalton's ability to see over him.  He was their backup center and played both guard spots filling in for injured players last year.  I don't know how I would rate his performance since he was a center in college, but they didn't seem to have a great offense last year.  

Exactly. Maybe I'm old school, but 6'5" seems like tackle height. You went your center to look (and play) like a bowling ball.

[*Synric*]

(05-08-2018, 09:05 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Exactly. Maybe I'm old school, but 6'5" seems like tackle height. You went your center to look (and play) like a bowling ball.

Being to tall for a center was Ragnow's biggest knock. 

All 3 of the top Centers were worth a top 40 pick but they each had an issue. 

James Daniels is probably going to take a year but he's young and has the highest ceiling. Billy Price can start right away, is technically sound, and mean but he's maxed out and has very short arms.

[sandwedge]

(05-08-2018, 06:13 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Leverage and also when your QB isn't 6'5"....this is a good point.  

Ethan Pocic was drafted in the 2nd round last year by Seattle and at 6'6", I wondered about his ability to stay low and drive block and/or Dalton's ability to see over him.  He was their backup center and played both guard spots filling in for injured players last year.  I don't know how I would rate his performance since he was a center in college, but they didn't seem to have a great offense last year.  

Russell Wilson was running for his life last season, almost as much as Dalton. Only the fact that he has more escapability than Andy, saved Seattle in games. I do think when your QB is only 5'11" and your center is 6'6" has to effect your vision in the pocket. 

[sandwedge]

(05-08-2018, 05:59 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Ole?  Just because I am staring down the barrel of 50 doesn't make me "ole", but I think you meant "ol" anyways. 

The 50s are awesome!! EVerything you eat will give you heartburn, more trips to the bathroom and you will still be able to keep up with young'ins!!