(08-21-2015, 04:05 PM)djs7685 Wrote: I believe they've changed the QBR system since that controversy though.
With that said, it's still partially opinion from what I'm aware of. It's like PFF grading, it means as much as you're willing to put into their opinions.
You usually don't see many great QBs with low QBR at the end of a season, but I wouldn't take the exact number to heart. A guy that ranks dead last in QBR probably didn't have a good season, but he's probably not exactly as good as the QBR number.
My opinion of QBR has changed a bit over the years. I used to bash it, but I have to admit that I occasionally check out their rankings. Like you said, just don't take the rankings to heart. It's kinda like PFF.
I wish they'd explain their formula though.
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
(08-21-2015, 12:58 PM)FanStuckInIndy Wrote: Recently saw and listened to Mo Eggar on Sports of All Sorts with Ken Broo. His analysis of the Bengals has never impressed me until this last episode of this show, and what he had to say about Andy. Many of you know, that Mo Eggar was never short on complaints slung Andy's way in the past, but his criticism has turned into praise.
The problem that I was having with Mo Eggar, was that he would often call out our QB by name, and single him out personally - often, when I thought his criticism was unfair.
In this recent appearance with Ken Broo, however, Mo Eggar clearly stated that those who do not 'support' our quarterback, also must not want our team to win. He then went on to say, if you don't want our team to win, then you are not a Bengals fan. This is my viewpoint as well.
I agree with Mo Eggar's view on the subject, and any who do not, really need to get with the program.
As far as I was concerned, Mo Eggar did not represent the team he reported for in the way he should, and was therefore not qualified for the job, in my opinion. He is still on the radio though, and this turnaround, to me, has him a lot closer to where he needs to be to keep my interest in his discussions on the Bengals.
Good on him, is what I say. And I will be addressing him personally, through one outlet or another, to let him know I noticed.
Now, if the rest of you so-called fans that have nothing better to do than to tear down one of your own team's players and call them out by name, you need to get it right too. You make me sick!
FanStuckInIndy
Mr. Mo might have forgotten the difference between supporting and believing in.
I can't imagine there are fans who want their team to lose. That would kind of violate the definition of fan.
Calling other people so called fans is pretty presumptuous and also kinda pointless, since it really benefits no one.
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ― Albert Einstein
(08-21-2015, 02:13 PM)BleedNOrange Wrote: No one that posts on here "wants" the Bengals, and therefore Andy, to lose. Every single person "wants" Andy to be successful and lead us to multiple Super Bowl wins. "Believing" that Andy has the ability to do so is where the arguments come from. Saying fans on here don't support the team is insulting and absurd.
Spot on.
I'm no Andy homer or hater. I want the guy to do well, but I have no choice, given I'm a Bengal fan and (for the time being) we're stuck with him.
I was a Bengal fan before Andy was even born, and I'll be one long after he's taken off that jersey and moved on. My feelings about him as a player have zero to do with the depth of my fandom.
(08-21-2015, 12:58 PM)FanStuckInIndy Wrote: Recently saw and listened to Mo Eggar on Sports of All Sorts with Ken Broo. His analysis of the Bengals has never impressed me until this last episode of this show, and what he had to say about Andy. Many of you know, that Mo Eggar was never short on complaints slung Andy's way in the past, but his criticism has turned into praise.
The problem that I was having with Mo Eggar, was that he would often call out our QB by name, and single him out personally - often, when I thought his criticism was unfair.
In this recent appearance with Ken Broo, however, Mo Eggar clearly stated that those who do not 'support' our quarterback, also must not want our team to win. He then went on to say, if you don't want our team to win, then you are not a Bengals fan. This is my viewpoint as well.
I agree with Mo Eggar's view on the subject, and any who do not, really need to get with the program.
As far as I was concerned, Mo Eggar did not represent the team he reported for in the way he should, and was therefore not qualified for the job, in my opinion. He is still on the radio though, and this turnaround, to me, has him a lot closer to where he needs to be to keep my interest in his discussions on the Bengals.
Good on him, is what I say. And I will be addressing him personally, through one outlet or another, to let him know I noticed.
Now, if the rest of you so-called fans that have nothing better to do than to tear down one of your own team's players and call them out by name, you need to get it right too. You make me sick!
FanStuckInIndy
Hmm. there's a couple things about this OP that struck me. For one...you were never impressed by Egger's analysis of the Bengals, and didn't feel that he represented the team the way he should've. Hell, you didn't even think he was qualified for the job. But, now that he's said something that you wholeheartedly agree with...you've taken notice, and he's closer to where he needs to be? Where exactly does he need to be, other than giving his honest opinion, whether you agree with it or not? It really sounds like you want Mo to be an all-praising, tow the company line kinda guy...ala Hobson, or else he's not deserving of being on the air in your opinion. That's just not Egger's style.
Secondly, there are no "so-called" fans IMO. Either you're a fan or you're not. Honestly, who's going to invest/waste their time, energy, money, emotions, etc...just to be a "so-called" fan? Granted, there are different types of fans...positive, negative, blind homers, constant b-tchers, eternal optimists and permanently jaded. Some are diehard, some are more casual, some live and die with each game, some see it as just entertainment. But, they are ALL fans...each in their own way, expressed in their own way. Whether they drool over a player or can't stand a player...it's their choice and their opinion.
I don't mean to go on a rant here, but I can't stand seeing people telling other people what a "true fan" is supposed to be...or even worse, that you're not a true fan 'if you're not like me'. Hell, I get sick of both extremes...the uber-homers and the hyper-critical's. But, you'll never see me telling them they're "not a real fan" because that's bullshit. I've been a fan of this team for 30 years. I'll praise what I think it's deserved, and I'll b-tch about something if I think it needs criticized. Two people can have completely different views about their team, the players, coaches, etc...and still be equally devoted fans.
Ugh, this whole 'fan' thing has always rubbed me the wrong way. Oh well, I just popped the 1st Sam Adams of the night...so it's all good!
However, I support all moves that make the Bengals a better team. This includes signing and cutting players who may or may not be currently on the roster for the betterment of the team. Whatever it takes to win.
"Our offensive line is going to surprise a lot of people" - Mike Brown (7-26-21)
I'm no Andy homer or hater. I want the guy to do well, but I have no choice, given I'm a Bengal fan and (for the time being) we're stuck with him.
I was a Bengal fan before Andy was even born, and I'll be one long after he's taken off that jersey and moved on. My feelings about him as a player have zero to do with the depth of my fandom.
Now, if the rest of you so-called fans that have nothing better to do than to tear down one of your own team's players and call them out by name, you need to get it right too. You make me sick!
FanStuckInIndy
Fueled by satanism, violence, and sodomy, dinosaurs had little chance to survive as a species.
Mo Egger plays it pretty close to the middle IMO. And, if anything, I think he's more forgiving than he needs to be at times.
This city's media, and especially WLW, are MUCH, MUCH easier on the home town team than you would find from some of their counterparts that are employed in bigger cities. And I get that, 700 has a relationship with the team and is invested in their success. It only makes sense to not have a Greg Doyle type of personality in these roles. And fwiw, I've heard people even call Lance a hater, which is borderline insane. Lance is about the biggest homer you're ever going to find in local radio. Hell, 1530 is called HOMER!!!
Look, I hate to break it to you, but if think Mo is unfair or negative then you don't want a sports talk host, you want a cheerleader. I'm really not sure you could ask for much of a fair, unbiased take. I think he does a great job being open to both the good and band, and even better job articulating why he feels whatever he does.
Ken Broo and Mo Egger are the two best guys in this town for sports. Lance is good if you like hearing about Hostess cupcakes, his kids and Reds talk 95% of the time.
(08-21-2015, 08:05 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Hmm. there's a couple things about this OP that struck me. For one...you were never impressed by Egger's analysis of the Bengals, and didn't feel that he represented the team the way he should've. Hell, you didn't even think he was qualified for the job. But, now that he's said something that you wholeheartedly agree with...you've taken notice, and he's closer to where he needs to be? Where exactly does he need to be, other than giving his honest opinion, whether you agree with it or not? It really sounds like you want Mo to be an all-praising, tow the company line kinda guy...ala Hobson, or else he's not deserving of being on the air in your opinion. That's just not Egger's style.
Secondly, there are no "so-called" fans IMO. Either you're a fan or you're not. Honestly, who's going to invest/waste their time, energy, money, emotions, etc...just to be a "so-called" fan? Granted, there are different types of fans...positive, negative, blind homers, constant b-tchers, eternal optimists and permanently jaded. Some are diehard, some are more casual, some live and die with each game, some see it as just entertainment. But, they are ALL fans...each in their own way, expressed in their own way. Whether they drool over a player or can't stand a player...it's their choice and their opinion.
I don't mean to go on a rant here, but I can't stand seeing people telling other people what a "true fan" is supposed to be...or even worse, that you're not a true fan 'if you're not like me'. Hell, I get sick of both extremes...the uber-homers and the hyper-critical's. But, you'll never see me telling them they're "not a real fan" because that's bullshit. I've been a fan of this team for 30 years. I'll praise what I think it's deserved, and I'll b-tch about something if I think it needs criticized. Two people can have completely different views about their team, the players, coaches, etc...and still be equally devoted fans.
Ugh, this whole 'fan' thing has always rubbed me the wrong way. Oh well, I just popped the 1st Sam Adams of the night...so it's all good!
The training, nutrition, medicine, fitness, playbooks and rules evolve. The athlete does not.
We make you sick? You make me laugh. This is pro football not God and country. As if we owe unconditional loyalty to some multi millionaire that would without hesitation move on to another city/team for more money. Get a grip.
(08-22-2015, 12:50 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Mo Egger plays it pretty close to the middle IMO. And, if anything, I think he's more forgiving than he needs to be at times.
This city's media, and especially WLW, are MUCH, MUCH easier on the home town team than you would find from some of their counterparts that are employed in bigger cities. And I get that, 700 has a relationship with the team and is invested in their success. It only makes sense to not have a Greg Doyle type of personality in these roles. And fwiw, I've heard people even call Lance a hater, which is borderline insane. Lance is about the biggest homer you're ever going to find in local radio. Hell, 1530 is called HOMER!!!
Look, I hate to break it to you, but if think Mo is unfair or negative then you don't want a sports talk host, you want a cheerleader. I'm really not sure you could ask for much of a fair, unbiased take. I think he does a great job being open to both the good and band, and even better job articulating why he feels whatever he does.
Ken Broo and Mo Egger are the two best guys in this town for sports. Lance is good if you like hearing about Hostess cupcakes, his kids and Reds talk 95% of the time.
I think this gets played a lot. "You would get a lot worse in New York or Chicago with THEIR media!". I don't really subscribe to this. First of all, many of us like our sports talk to be national media: ESPN, NFL Networt, etc. I think those outlets have piled on the Bengals and even the Buckeyes for decades. (I thought Mark May's head was going to explode when OSU won the National Championship last year....what a douche). But out own local media, 700 WLW, and even the station called "HOMER", 1530, have killed the Bengals for their postseason failures. They wanted Dusty Baker's head after losing a 2-0 lead in the playoffs to the eventual World Series Champs (and they got it...his head, that is). Lance even asked the nicest man on the planet, Dick LeBeau, if his team should turn in their resignations after a horrible start and an embarrassing loss to the Ratbirds in something like week 4, if memory serves.
I think our media is just as hard on the teams as any others, and I personally think it is a good thing that they have higher standards for the team and want a championship.
As far as Mo goes, I love his show and I think he is one of the more open and honest sports talk guys I have ever heard. He admits to being a fan, and becomes similarly disgusted when the Reds or Bengals lay a massive egg and hammers them for it. I love how he always offers to be the (free) "common sense" coach on the sideline that could have a radio to Marvin's ear. It's pretty funny stuff. So, although the station is called "homer", I think Mo and his occasional fill-in, Chick Ludwig, will call a spade a spade and criticize when it is valid but also praise when warranted.
I did have to consider again, the way I expressed my opinion to start this thread. I should endeavor to do so without calling anyone out myself, in this public forum. I have edited my original post to simply express my point without flaming anyone in the process. My passion gets the better of me on these matters.
For the record, my opinion on the matter is still my opinion - I cannot apologize for that.
(08-22-2015, 08:57 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think this gets played a lot. "You would get a lot worse in New York or Chicago with THEIR media!". I don't really subscribe to this. First of all, many of us like our sports talk to be national media: ESPN, NFL Networt, etc. I think those outlets have piled on the Bengals and even the Buckeyes for decades. (I thought Mark May's head was going to explode when OSU won the National Championship last year....what a douche). But out own local media, 700 WLW, and even the station called "HOMER", 1530, have killed the Bengals for their postseason failures. They wanted Dusty Baker's head after losing a 2-0 lead in the playoffs to the eventual World Series Champs (and they got it...his head, that is). Lance even asked the nicest man on the planet, Dick LeBeau, if his team should turn in their resignations after a horrible start and an embarrassing loss to the Ratbirds in something like week 4, if memory serves.
I think our media is just as hard on the teams as any others, and I personally think it is a good thing that they have higher standards for the team and want a championship.
As far as Mo goes, I love his show and I think he is one of the more open and honest sports talk guys I have ever heard. He admits to being a fan, and becomes similarly disgusted when the Reds or Bengals lay a massive egg and hammers them for it. I love how he always offers to be the (free) "common sense" coach on the sideline that could have a radio to Marvin's ear. It's pretty funny stuff. So, although the station is called "homer", I think Mo and his occasional fill-in, Chick Ludwig, will call a spade a spade and criticize when it is valid but also praise when warranted.
This is good commentary. And I agree that Mo calls a spade, a spade - and that's okay. But he did do a 180 on his bottom-line assessment and outlook on Andy Dalton - which was refreshing.
Glad you mentioned Chick Ludwig - that guy is awesome. When there is cause for optimism, Chick delivers.
He makes me 'want to run through a wall - with snot bubbles'! (lol)
Andy could fail and have a losing season. That wouldn't change anything. We'd just hear this anyway.
"We've just got to do better."
The question is not the faith just in Andy, but the blue balled fan base that wants this team to win post season games and hoist the Lombardi.
Sometimes good just isn't good enough. It's not like there hasn't been time and heartache.
Is this team still the laughing stock it was for a decade? No. Is Andy the worst QB in the league? No. Is Marvin the worst coach? No.
Any person can reflect on these questions positively or negatively to a point.
The strong word in this thread is "believe". When someone stops believing in a Coach, Ownership, or Player it makes it hard to reverse skepticism on their part.
You as the OP just have to accept the fact that some people's beliefs do not align with yours for whatever reason.
We as fans all want to win... with only a few outliers who only want to be right at whatever cost.
(08-22-2015, 09:57 AM)FanStuckInIndy Wrote: I did have to consider again, the way I expressed my opinion to start this thread. I should endeavor to do so without calling anyone out myself, in this public forum. I have edited my original post to simply express my point without flaming anyone in the process. My passion gets the better of me on these matters.
For the record, my opinion on the matter is still my opinion - I cannot apologize for that.
FanStuckInIndy
Yeah, it led me on a bit of a rant. But, I was trying to address the overall 'fan' thing. I used to see that happen a lot on the old board...people telling each other they're not "real fans" or the "right kind of fans"...and I was hoping we wouldn't see as much of it on the new board.
You've got every right to your opinion, as does every other fan. That was really what I was trying to say. We're all fans, we all love this team...but everyone also has different ways of expressing it. Everyone will also have players that they support fully and "believe" in, and players that they simply don't like as much or have confidence in.
As for your passion getting the better of you, it happens to all of us at times brother...especially with sports fans. Just the nature of the beast. Sports fans, IMO, are unique...because we invest so much in the team we love, follow and root for year after year. At times, we praise too much, we b-tch too much, we expect too much, we over-react too much, we get too excited, we get too disappointed. But honestly, the one thing about being a sports fan...it's never boring! (well maybe a little during the off-season)
(08-22-2015, 10:18 AM)BengalsRocker Wrote: Andy could fail and have a losing season. That wouldn't change anything. We'd just hear this anyway.
"We've just got to do better."
The question is not the faith just in Andy, but the blue balled fan base that wants this team to win post season games and hoist the Lombardi.
Sometimes good just isn't good enough. It's not like there hasn't been time and heartache.
Is this team still the laughing stock it was for a decade? No. Is Andy the worst QB in the league? No. Is Marvin the worst coach? No.
Any person can reflect on these questions positively or negatively to a point.
The strong word in this thread is "believe". When someone stops believing in a Coach, Ownership, or Player it makes it hard to reverse skepticism on their part.
You as the OP just have to accept the fact that some people's beliefs do not align with yours for whatever reason.
We as fans all want to win... with only a few outliers who only want to be right at whatever cost.
Your last two sentences say it all, and I couldn't agree more. Perhaps it was this sub-set of fans that you speak of here, that my original post was targeting as much as anything else. Nicely put.
(08-22-2015, 10:41 AM)Bengalholic Wrote: Yeah, it led me on a bit of a rant. But, I was trying to address the overall 'fan' thing. I used to see that happen a lot on the old board...people telling each other they're not "real fans" or the "right kind of fans"...and I was hoping we wouldn't see as much of it on the new board.
You've got every right to your opinion, as does every other fan. That was really what I was trying to say. We're all fans, we all love this team...but everyone also has different ways of expressing it. Everyone will also have players that they support and "believe" in, and players that they simply don't have trust or confidence in.
As for your passion getting the better of you, it happens to all of us at times brother...especially with sports fans. Just the nature of the beast. Sports fans, IMO, are unique...because we invest so much in the team we love, follow and root for year after year. At times, we praise too much, we b-tch too much, we expect to much, we over-react too much, we get too excited, we get too disappointed. But honestly, the one thing about being a sports fan...it's never boring! (well maybe a little during the off-season)
I had forgotten what a mistake it was to try and define a fan - you are right, Holic.
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