Pollack: "you’ve still gotta kick the guy’s ass"

[cooper]

(05-23-2018, 12:54 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Nice read Holic, thanks for posting.

I'm so glad we've got a new O-line coach with a kick ass attitude ! All the finesse and dancing to classical music crap is great IF the right attitude is the core of the training which is to whup some ass. And it wasn't.

I still believe this is Ogbuehi's biggest problem, he doesn't have the aggressive streak in him.

the rap on ced ( numerous scouting reports was that he lacked strength..  totally agree

[Shake n Blake]

(05-24-2018, 06:03 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: I totally agree that change was long overdue. I’m optimistic about having him as a coach and I hope that he won’t be handcuffed. I just kinda roll my eyes when people praise a guy saying that he’d rather have strong guys vs. weak guys, that should be a no brainer. I try to stay optimistic, that’s hard to do with the Bengals but they seem to be trying a little harder this offseason. The fans seem to have settled down regarding Marvin being back. He’s also overdue tobechanged out. He has way more impact on the team than any position coach has. I don’t see how he’s not gone if they don’t finish above .500, unless the Bengalswin their last game of course.

I'm with ya completely. It was hard to get excited at all after Marv was retained. I was as close to done as I've ever been. Then they just knocked everything else out of the park. I still don't see any playoff wins looming, and tbh part of me feels we're adding new chairs to the Titanic. 

The thought of a better run game has me somewhat optimistic (about reg season) though.

Lazor is getting some control of the offense. He had the Dolphins averaging 4.7 YPC in 2014 (2nd in NFL), a figure we haven't sniffed since 2000. He's tearing up the old playbook and installing an all-new offense (Dalton said as much), and a big nasty o-line seems to be a part of that. No more little finesse linemen. 

(05-24-2018, 06:54 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: Another thing that puzzles me is the why Dallas chose not to ask him back. I’ve never heard the reason why. If he is that good, why did they tell him to hey weren’t interested in keeping him? I apologize if that has already been discussed.

I think he was gone for the same reason we dumped some coaches. Mike wanted change after a disappointing season(s), but he can't let go of Merv for whatever reason. So he swapped out some other coaches and made some moves for players.

Same deal in Dallas. Jerrah is BFF's with Jason Garrett and didn't want to let him go...but the Cowboys undeniably had a disappointing year. So some other heads had to roll. They fired Pollack, longtime QB coach Wade Wilson, secondary coach Joe Baker and I believe one other position coach. This article from 247sports' Cowboys section seems to side with Pollack:

Quote:Although the offensive line did take a step back in 2017 from its usual dominance the world has become accustomed to, much of it was accountable to the health issues of All-Pro left tackle [/url]Tyron Smith along with the coaching staff's refusal to relinquish their hold on the now defunct "Chaz GreenExperiment", which saw the veteran swing tackle shifted to starting left guard ahead of former first-round pick Jonathan Cooper. 


Matters were made worse by moving Green back to starting tackle in the absence of Smith, resulting in the disemboweling of quarterback Dak Prescott at the hands of the Atlanta Falcons.

Neither Green nor Prescott would mentally recover from that game going forward and the resistance to start Cooper from the outset of the season -- the better talent at left guard by a country mile -- helped set back the chemistry of the unit as a whole. 


While it's Pollack's job to coach up the offensive linemen, it's the task of the offensive coordinator to make sure the personnel is set in the best way possible.

In other words, the experiment with Green falls on the lap of Linehan far more than Pollack.

That notwithstanding, the Cowboys are in the mood to clean house (or at least the attic in the hopes it makes the living room look better) and Pollack is now the latest to depart the facility. A veteran who began his NFL coaching career on the sidelines for the Houston Texans in 2007, he's also helped to mold offensive lineman for the Oakland Raiders before joining the Cowboys in 2012.


He was promoted in 2015 to his current role and has been key in molding All-Pro talents like Smith, Zack Martin and [url=https://247sports.com/Player/Travis-Frederick-5208]Travis Frederick. Tasked with converting La'El Collins back to the right edge in 2017 for the first time since his days at LSU, he did so masterfully as Collins stood his ground against a flurry of the league's best pass rushers and rarely blinked.

With accomplishments such as these under his belt, finding a position elsewhere will be easy like Sunday morning.

https://247sports.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/Bolt/SOURCE-Dallas-Cowboys-to-fire-offensive-line-coach-Frank-Pollack-113540225


In fact, I really haven't seen anything negative said about Pollack at all. I truly think we just happened to be in the right place at the right time to have this guy fall in our lap. We'll be able to judge his work with the Bengals soon enough, but he certainly did great work in Dallas, as well as Oakland and Houston.

[Shake n Blake]

The Cowboys finished 2nd in rush yards, 3rd in YPC and gave up 32 sacks last year.

To put this in perspective, the only time the Bengals were that good in each of those categories was 1988.

The Cowboys fired this guy lol.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-24-2018, 08:11 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The Cowboys finished 2nd in rush yards, 3rd in YPC and gave up 32 sacks last year.

To put this in perspective, the only time the Bengals were that good in each of those categories was 1988.

The Cowboys fired this guy lol.

Not only did they fire that guy, they immediately hired the guy we were thrilled to see hit the bricks.

It'll be interesting to see how Dallas' OL does this year.  PA just went from a job where he has been cruising on autopilot for a long time, to a place where they are going to demand perfection right now, or else...

[Shake n Blake]

(05-24-2018, 08:54 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Not only did they fire that guy, they immediately hired the guy we were thrilled to see hit the bricks.

It'll be interesting to see how Dallas' OL does this year.  PA just went from a job where he has been cruising on autopilot for a long time, to a place where they are going to demand perfection right now, or else...

Well he was pretty comfy in his seat in Cincy. I imagine he might be a little more open to change in Dallas. 

I doubt they let him change to his schemes with smaller finesse linemen when they've built their line around big maulers. 

Something will have to give there. If Paul wins out, it could be a big mess. If Paul converts, maybe they keep it rolling.

Should be interesting.

[Circleville Guy]

(05-24-2018, 08:00 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'm with ya completely. It was hard to get excited at all after Marv was retained. I was as close to done as I've ever been. Then they just knocked everything else out of the park. I still don't see any playoff wins looming, and tbh part of me feels we're adding new chairs to the Titanic. 

The thought of a better run game has me somewhat optimistic (about reg season) though.

Lazor is getting some control of the offense. He had the Dolphins averaging 4.7 YPC in 2014 (2nd in NFL), a figure we haven't sniffed since 2000. He's tearing up the old playbook and installing an all-new offense (Dalton said as much), and a big nasty o-line seems to be a part of that. No more little finesse linemen. 


I think he was gone for the same reason we dumped some coaches. Mike wanted change after a disappointing season(s), but he can't let go of Merv for whatever reason. So he swapped out some other coaches and made some moves for players.

Same deal in Dallas. Jerrah is BFF's with Jason Garrett and didn't want to let him go...but the Cowboys undeniably had a disappointing year. So some other heads had to roll. They fired Pollack, longtime QB coach Wade Wilson, secondary coach Joe Baker and I believe one other position coach. This article from 247sports' Cowboys section seems to side with Pollack:



https://247sports.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/Bolt/SOURCE-Dallas-Cowboys-to-fire-offensive-line-coach-Frank-Pollack-113540225


In fact, I really haven't seen anything negative said about Pollack at all. I truly think we just happened to be in the right place at the right time to have this guy fall in our lap. We'll be able to judge his work with the Bengals soon enough, but he certainly did great work in Dallas, as well as Oakland and Houston.

Thanks for the interesting read. Establishing a run game would help this team in so many ways. Things can happen between now and the opener but I’m guessing a 7-9 Win season. They can’t be 1-3 or 0-4 out of the gate if they are going to be a playoff team. We will be out a certain LB for those games.... again. That’s very frustrating too.

[SunsetBengal]

(05-24-2018, 10:29 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Well he was pretty comfy in his seat in Cincy. I imagine he might be a little more open to change in Dallas. 

I doubt they let him change to his schemes with smaller finesse linemen when they've built their line around big maulers. 

Something will have to give there. If Paul wins out, it could be a big mess. If Paul converts, maybe they keep it rolling.

Should be interesting.

That's kind of what I'm getting at.  PA is being handed a full deck of Aces in Dallas, they are expecting him to have the most dominating OL in the league.  With all of his experience, if he doesn't produce immediate results, you half to thing that he'll be on the hot seat.

[Shake n Blake]

(05-24-2018, 10:40 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: Thanks for the interesting read. Establishing a run game would help this team in so many ways. Things can happen between now and the opener but I’m guessing a 7-9 Win season. They can’t be 1-3 or 0-4 out of the gate if they are going to be a playoff team. We will be out a certain LB for those games.... again. That’s very frustrating too.

No doubt about that, although I'm hoping the addition of Preston Brown will help hold us over this time around.

(05-24-2018, 10:41 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's kind of what I'm getting at.  PA is being handed a full deck of Aces in Dallas, they are expecting him to have the most dominating OL in the league.  With all of his experience, if he doesn't produce immediate results, you half to thing that he'll be on the hot seat.

Totally agree. I think Jerrah's patience is non-existent at this point. He thinks he has a championship roster (he may be right) and he knows he knows he's getting on in years. If results aren't immediate, the hot seat will be.

[Sabretooth]

(05-24-2018, 04:12 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: The OLine should automatically be better than last year by personnel change alone. I’m curious as to how much improvement you expect to see to justify this god worshipping on here. It is exciting to me to see the change of this coaching position, obviously change was long overdue. I would think that most coaches would prefer a physically dominant guy when it comes to a shoving match, you’re ahead of the game before the X’s and O’s. Does anyone know if the Head Coach or the Offensive Coordinator will have any input on line philosophy? Who dictates who plays? I’m more of a show me things first kinda guy vs. a hype a messiah before any proven results are seen. I’m sure that someone will overreact and say that this makes me not a fan, that’s fine. I am curious about how each of you will judge how well this new coach does. Keep in mind that the OLine roster got a lot better from last year. Some players will also look a tad better just by having a stud playing next to him. I really believe that the line should collapse a lot less this year just by adding the 2 hosses that they did. With these seemingly automatic improvements, what results will you judge Pollack on? Outside of injuries, the line should automatically be a good bit better.

If Andy gets adequate protection,the backs aren't caught in the backfield a lot,running lanes are opened, then Pollack is a definite improvement  IMO.

[HarleyDog]

(05-25-2018, 06:35 AM)Sabretooth Wrote: If Andy gets adequate protection,the backs aren't caught in the backfield a lot,running lanes are opened, then Pollack is a definite improvement  IMO.

Hell, if even one of those things happen it’s an improvement.

[*bengalfan74*]

(05-24-2018, 08:00 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'm with ya completely. It was hard to get excited at all after Marv was retained. I was as close to done as I've ever been. Then they just knocked everything else out of the park. I still don't see any playoff wins looming, and tbh part of me feels we're adding new chairs to the Titanic. 

I'm right there beside you and Circleville guy and I'm sure many others.
I'm 100% in show me mode when it comes to Merv coaching the Bengals. Yes I've been pleasantly surprised by the off season moves which by Bengal Standards was a 180 ! But I still wonder did they do enough ? Could they have done more ? I think so.

But nothing about this off season changes anything about the FACT that there's a mountain of evidence that Merv can't get it done when it really matters ! Gets smoked in the 2nd half of games, can't win the big game, playoffs etc.

And I still want to see more. I want to see them release the dead wood, MJ and others. I want to see this team truly take all the steps needed to be relevant again. Stop playing the good old boy system - William Jackson should have been on the field way more than he was and 100 other examples.

Have things really changed ? Or is it just moving around those deck chairs ?

[Sled21]

(05-24-2018, 10:41 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That's kind of what I'm getting at.  PA is being handed a full deck of Aces in Dallas, they are expecting him to have the most dominating OL in the league.  With all of his experience, if he doesn't produce immediate results, you half to thing that he'll be on the hot seat.

PA is one of the most respected line coachs.......... outside of Cincinnati. Not sure how he does it, but he's got the football world bamboozled.

[BengalChris]

(05-24-2018, 08:00 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'm with ya completely. It was hard to get excited at all after Marv was retained. I was as close to done as I've ever been. Then they just knocked everything else out of the park. I still don't see any playoff wins looming, and tbh part of me feels we're adding new chairs to the Titanic. 

The thought of a better run game has me somewhat optimistic (about reg season) though.

Lazor is getting some control of the offense. He had the Dolphins averaging 4.7 YPC in 2014 (2nd in NFL), a figure we haven't sniffed since 2000. He's tearing up the old playbook and installing an all-new offense (Dalton said as much), and a big nasty o-line seems to be a part of that. No more little finesse linemen. 


I think he was gone for the same reason we dumped some coaches. Mike wanted change after a disappointing season(s), but he can't let go of Merv for whatever reason. So he swapped out some other coaches and made some moves for players.

Same deal in Dallas. Jerrah is BFF's with Jason Garrett and didn't want to let him go...but the Cowboys undeniably had a disappointing year. So some other heads had to roll. They fired Pollack, longtime QB coach Wade Wilson, secondary coach Joe Baker and I believe one other position coach. This article from 247sports' Cowboys section seems to side with Pollack:



https://247sports.com/nfl/dallas-cowboys/Bolt/SOURCE-Dallas-Cowboys-to-fire-offensive-line-coach-Frank-Pollack-113540225


In fact, I really haven't seen anything negative said about Pollack at all. I truly think we just happened to be in the right place at the right time to have this guy fall in our lap. We'll be able to judge his work with the Bengals soon enough, but he certainly did great work in Dallas, as well as Oakland and Houston.

I fully expect Paul Alexander to starting pussifying Dallas' Oline. Those who won't pussify will be deemed replaceable and they'll start drafting timid fat boys to become Alexander's favorites.

[fredtoast]

(05-25-2018, 09:56 AM)Sled21 Wrote: PA is one of the most respected line coachs.......... outside of Cincinnati. Not sure how he does it, but he's got the football world bamboozled.

Yeah, the men who have dedicated their lives and careers to football don't know anything compared to casual fans.

Just like the Broncos, who won a Super Bowl with their defense, were so much dumber than the guys on this message board when they paid Peko to be their starting DT.  

Maybe the rest of the football word does not know Paul plays piano.  That seems to be one of the big criticisms around here for the "Piano Man".

[fredtoast]

(05-25-2018, 10:14 AM)BengalChris Wrote: I fully expect Paul Alexander to starting pussifying Dallas' Oline. Those who won't pussify will be deemed replaceable and they'll start drafting timid fat boys to become Alexander's favorites.

You mean like he did with Braham, Steinbach, Willie Anderson, Levi Jones , Whitworth, Bobbie Williams, Zeitler, and Boling?

Th rest of the league seems to put a high value on the guys Alexande has "pussified".

[BengalChris]

(05-25-2018, 10:51 AM)fredtoast Wrote: You mean like he did with Braham, Steinbach, Willie Anderson, Levi Jones , Whitworth, Bobbie Williams, Zeitler, and Boling?

Th rest of the league seems to put a high value on the guys Alexande has "pussified".

In recent years all the best ones were sent packing in favor of lessor players, or haven't you seen the OL play lately?

[fredtoast]

(05-25-2018, 11:27 AM)BengalChris Wrote: In recent years all the best ones were sent packing in favor of lessor players, or haven't you seen the OL play lately?

Can't blame Paul for sending them packing.

[depthchart]

(05-25-2018, 11:31 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Can't blame Paul for sending them packing.

You can't know this for certain.

When negotiating with Whitworth, Paul may have mentioned to Mike that he believed Cedric Ogbuehi could handle the Left Tackle job, causing Mike to limit just how high his offer to Whit would go. Thus allowing the Rams to outbid us for Whit's services.

-OR-

Paul could have chosen to go all out to convince Mike that Cedric may not be able to handle the Left Tackle job and encouraged Mike to do everything he could to retain Whit. Mike would then have felt compelled to out bid the Rams for Whit's services.

Paul may have led Mike to feel confident in Cedric thus having a part in sending Whit packing by lowering Mike's sense of urgency to keep Whit.

If Paul gives Mike a sense of urgency to keep Whit, then Mike is more likely to outbid Rams to keep Whit.

If Paul endorses Cedric to Mike, then Rams are more likely to outbid Mike to get Whit.

We can't know for certain Paul's impact here.

[fredtoast]

(05-25-2018, 11:47 AM)depthchart Wrote: We can't know for certain Paul's impact here.

That's what I said.  We can't blame Alexander.  

[depthchart]

(05-25-2018, 11:59 AM)fredtoast Wrote: That's what I said.  We can't blame Alexander.  

Maybe we can and maybe we can't.

Read Post 58 again.