A little Perspective

[Steve]

(07-01-2018, 11:06 AM)Nately120 Wrote: It depends on how you look at it.  I think Marvin Lewis has been pretty fortunate to have good-though-not-elite and fairly reliable QBs in Palmer and Dalton for his entire HC career.  Are there other franchises that have had as much QB stability as we have and still failed to win a playoff game?  I think the Lions with Stafford who is going into his 10th season, I think, could also qualify for that.  Anyways, I see a good side and a meh side in this, that's for sure.



You'd think with the relative stability we've had at QB for 15 years we'd have done some (more) winning, too.  If you don't have a QB you have to throw every single resource down the well until you find one.

I don't think QB has been the reason for more success here...
Imo, the #1 main thing that's held us back is a weak O-line, year after year.....
seems this franchise has always valued OT's only...…
was satisfied w/ avg. at best OG's & OC's.....
so we have a weak run game, too many 3 & outs & our "D" is forced to be on the field too long....
drafting Ced & Fisher killed us the past 2 years, & Bodine was always a weak spot....
perhaps we've turned that corner.....but we'll have to see what happens at RT....I just don't see Ced being strong enough to play anywhere....so it's Fisher or.....?
perhaps in next years draft we'll go OT, slide Glenn to RT after the rookie gets his feet wet....?
we need 2 starting caliber OT's…..if we want a S.B. run...

[SunsetBengal]

(07-01-2018, 07:56 PM)Steve Wrote: I think he meant our closest neighbor in our AFC NORTYH DIV....

& I don't think Mayfield is a douchbag….
no reason to insult him.....
he's not a steeler….

Yeah, I was meaning our intrastate rival.  But, technically he was correct.  

Weather Baker Mayfield is or isn't a douche won't really be known, until times get rough and the media shoves microphones in his face..

[*jason*]

(07-01-2018, 07:56 PM)Steve Wrote: I think he meant our closest neighbor in our AFC NORTYH DIV....

& I don't think Mayfield is a douchbag….
no reason to insult him.....
he's not a steeler….

If you went to Ohio State, you'd think he's a douchebag.

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-01-2018, 08:07 PM)Steve Wrote: I don't think QB has been the reason for more success here...
Imo, the #1 main thing that's held us back is a weak O-line, year after year.....
seems this franchise has always valued OT's only...…
was satisfied w/ avg. at best OG's & OC's.....
so we have a weak run game, too many 3 & outs & our "D" is forced to be on the field too long....
drafting Ced & Fisher killed us the past 2 years, & Bodine was always a weak spot....
perhaps we've turned that corner.....but we'll have to see what happens at RT....I just don't see Ced being strong enough to play anywhere....so it's Fisher or.....?
perhaps in next years draft we'll go OT, slide Glenn to RT after the rookie gets his feet wet....?
we need 2 starting caliber OT's…..if we want a S.B. run...

Nor do I feel QB is the main reason for our "limited" success. My main point was look at the boat load of QB's Cleveland has been thru with very little to no success. One would think out of all of them and a few being fairly highly regarded coming out of college they would have hit pay dirt a couple times anyways.

Look at how we played musical QB's thru the late 90's early 00's with no success. Dalton is a steady QB with the ability to win games. He's not Brady or Rodgers and gonna put the team on his back and will us to victory, no. But it's very hard to find those guys, there one in a hundred thousand !

But I feel we can have success with him with the proper coaching, play calling, and position players.

[bengals67]

(06-29-2018, 09:55 AM)fredtoast Wrote: When a team goes through that many QBs yiou have to look at the coaches instead of the QBs.

It's like a guy who has been married several times.  at some point you have to blame the guy instead of all the different wives.

I believe that Couch would have been a very good NFL QB if he had remained healthy.

I agree with this point.

The Browns QBs have stunk because the team has stunk.

Put Brady on the Browns and he would not be going to Hall of Fame.

[grampahol]

Cleveland, home to the biggest QB graveyard.. 

[Steve]

(07-02-2018, 09:56 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Nor do I feel QB is the main reason for our "limited" success. My main point was look at the boat load of QB's Cleveland has been thru with very little to no success. One would think out of all of them and a few being fairly highly regarded coming out of college they would have hit pay dirt a couple times anyways.

Look at how we played musical QB's thru the late 90's early 00's with no success. Dalton is a steady QB with the ability to win games. He's not Brady or Rodgers and gonna put the team on his back and will us to victory, no. But it's very hard to find those guys, there one in a hundred thousand !

But I feel we can have success with him with the proper coaching, play calling, and position players.

I'm a huge Dalton fan....I hated to see him chased around so much last year.....having to throw it away to avoid yet another sack....very frustrating....
w/ a solid line Dalton can win us a SB.....But for that to happen we have to have a solid line & a RUN game.....& it seems we haven't had that in a long time...but maybe this year....??
     I understand about how many QB's the Browns have gone through....it seems if they had a solid ground game one of them would of found success....but no.......it is hard to figure out...seems the key is a SOLID ground game.....a QB's best friend...
I still think this year they already blew it again....although Mayfield might work out.....I still think they should of traded down some & picked Jackson....his speed is scary.....
ps. the Browns are my 2nd fav team....

[*bengalfan74*]

(07-02-2018, 08:39 PM)Steve Wrote: I'm a huge Dalton fan....I hated to see him chased around so much last year.....having to throw it away to avoid yet another sack....very frustrating....
w/ a solid line Dalton can win us a SB.....But for that to happen we have to have a solid line & a RUN game.....& it seems we haven't had that in a long time...but maybe this year....??
     I understand about how many QB's the Browns have gone through....it seems if they had a solid ground game one of them would of found success....but no.......it is hard to figure out...seems the key is a SOLID ground game.....a QB's best friend...
I still think this year they already blew it again....although Mayfield might work out.....I still think they should of traded down some & picked Jackson....his speed is scary.....
ps. the Browns are my 2nd fav team....

Oh I agree Steve !

We have to have a solid run game, a productive run game that can convert 3rd and 3 on the ground.

For the most part over the last few years when we have to run it....we can't ! And everybody has known it and that puts Dalton in a hell of a fix. 

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(06-29-2018, 12:56 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I was surfing the internet awhile ago and came across an article (a few years old) talking about the Cleveland Browns and all the QB's they've been through since Couch and the 99 comeback. I usually don't pay much attention to this kinda stuff but it got me to thinking about our QB's in that same time frame. And our record vs. theirs in that time frame.

Since 1999 the Browns have a grand total of two winning seasons 2002 9-7, 2007 10-6 and their only playoff appearance was 2002, they lost in 1st round. Ironically their only 10+ win season they didn't make playoffs !

They have a grand total of five seasons where they've posted 6 or more wins. Their overall record in this time frame is 88-216 ! In these 20 seasons 99-17 they've finished with 4 wins or less 10 times including 1-15 and 0-16 the last two seasons.

Here's a partial list of their QB's: draft picks first then all the free agents, trades, and pick up's.

1999 Tim Couch Rd.1 #1
2004 Luke McCown Rd. 4 #106
2005 Charlie Frye Rd.3 #67
2007 Brady Quinn Rd.1 #22
2010 Colt McCoy Rd.3 #85
2012 Brandon Weeden Rd.1 #22
2014 Johnny Manziel Rd.1 #22
2017 Deshone Kizer Rd.2 #52
2018 Baker Mayfield Rd.1 #1

And some of the rest roughly in order:

Jeff Garcia, Trent Dilfer, Derek Anderson, Ken Dorsey, Bruce Gradkowski, Jake Delhomme, Seneca Wallace, Thadeus Lewis, Jason Campbell, Austin Davis, Tyler Thigpen, Brian Hoyer, Cody Kessler, RG III, Josh McGown, Drew Stanton, Tyrod Taylor.

This is by no means an all inclusive list there's probably a dozen more..just some of the recognizable names. Point is that's 25 QB's right there ! And in that same time frame we've had Jeff Blake, Akili Smith, John Kitna, Carson Palmer, and Andy Dalton take the bulk of our snaps.

I know this franchise has been a total train wreck during this period but still it gives you some perspective on how hard it is to find an NFL (franchise) QB

Perhaps we haven't done so bad after all ?

Wow, 25 to 5, pretty crazy they haven't hit on one of those guys. Thought Colt McCoy was going to be decent for them.

Really liked Mayfield at Oklahoma but it is almost impossible to see even him fair well after seeing this.

The Stains will more than likely ruin him too.

[Steve]

(07-03-2018, 01:39 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Oh I agree Steve !

We have to have a solid run game, a productive run game that can convert 3rd and 3 on the ground.

For the most part over the last few years when we have to run it....we can't ! And everybody has known it and that puts Dalton in a hell of a fix. 

it's frustrating  to see the steelers convert 3rd & 3's all day long on the ground.....
but we get a 3rd & 3 & we have to pass b/c we have no ground game....
it all starts w/ the run....if a team can't run they are 1 dimensional....the "D" just pins it's ears back & goes for sacks.....
SMH....
& it seems we have this problem EVERY YEAR...…
as if our organization wants it this way.....

but I am stuck......I can't leave....I am a die hard Bengals fan.....
if we go 0-16 I will still be here....
now I need an emoji of a guy hanging from a noose....
b/c that's how I feel many times....
but ….as they say right now we're tied for 1st place....
so lets get ready for battle....
this year I want the AFC North div crown....

[Steve]

(07-01-2018, 08:08 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yeah, I was meaning our intrastate rival.  But, technically he was correct.  

Weather Baker Mayfield is or isn't a douche won't really be known, until times get rough and the media shoves microphones in his face..

hopefully Mayfield won't lose it if/when the Browns go through yet another losing streak....
that's just another thing ya have to LOVE about Dalton....
he never loses his composure.....a great competitor & a classy guy....nothing but nice....