Rank our QB (2018)

[grampahol]

Michael Lorenzen will probably be our next QB/Center fielder/relief pitcher/ home run king..  Why the hell not at this point ? Lol

[Luvnit2]

I voted Dalton 11-14 but see top 10 if the OL improves significantly. I don’t give rookies or newer guys props yet just because they have potential. Guys like Taylor are below AD due to decision making and reading the field. He is one of the smartest QB’s in the league in my opinion.

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-30-2018, 10:52 AM)cooper Wrote: hue jackson had nothing to do with daltons performance the past two years.. a lousy offensive line did

I think Hue's offense was one of the top in the league in 2015 and the offensive line didn't lose Whit and Zeitler until 2017.  The Bengals were 24th in the league in 2016, and that was the year Hue departed.  He had a LOT to do with Dalton's performance the past two years in terms of the decline from where he had this offense in 2015.  The replacing of Zampese with Lazor certainly helped to "right the ship", but Dalton's best years were with Hue as OC and it isn't even close.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-30-2018, 09:29 AM)CKwi88 Wrote: I'm not expecting any sort of magical development after 7 years. At this point Andy is a known known. A middle of the pack starter in this league.

Will be nice if he plays out of his mind again, but at this point it would be foolish to expect that.

This kind of seems to be the media perception of him as well, and it surprises me.  Maybe it is because his bad is SOOO BADDD.   And, right or wrong, the QB is going to get the brunt of the blame, but the first game of the season last year was so awful that I think people can't get passed it. 

The reality is, Dalton was on an upward trajectory that was similar to Peyton Manning's until the end of the 2015 season. I will always look at that season as the "what if he didn't get injured" season.  Regardless, once the Browns didn't let Hue leave without a contract, Dalton took a major step back for the past two years.  The first was largely a horrible scheme where the plays were so predictable and Dalton never had a moving pocket that he was a sitting duck.  No running game to speak of, and no real threats outside of AJ Green.  The second showed signs of life with Lazor, and improvements as the season wore on, largely due to some personnel and schematic changes in the offense.  

It is a leap of faith, granted, but if we give Dalton the benefit of the doubt on the numerous issues the past two seasons (as I don't think any QB would have won in that scenario) and he seems to have his confidence back at the end of last year, then I could see him returning to where he was in 2015, which was in the discussion for the league MVP.

I don't believe 2015 was an outlier in terms of his performance, I think it was the natural ascent of his performance and he will return to that form in 2018.  I think a large part of that will be the difference in offensive line scheme, personnel, coaching, and talent.  He has never had a great offensive line, and this one has the potential to be great.  

[Tiger Teeth]

(07-01-2018, 08:05 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This kind of seems to be the media perception of him as well, and it surprises me.  Maybe it is because his bad is SOOO BADDD.   And, right or wrong, the QB is going to get the brunt of the blame, but the first game of the season last year was so awful that I think people can't get passed it. 

The reality is, Dalton was on an upward trajectory that was similar to Peyton Manning's until the end of the 2015 season. I will always look at that season as the "what if he didn't get injured" season.  Regardless, once the Browns didn't let Hue leave without a contract, Dalton took a major step back for the past two years.  The first was largely a horrible scheme where the plays were so predictable and Dalton never had a moving pocket that he was a sitting duck.  No running game to speak of, and no real threats outside of AJ Green.  The second showed signs of life with Lazor, and improvements as the season wore on, largely due to some personnel and schematic changes in the offense.  

It is a leap of faith, granted, but if we give Dalton the benefit of the doubt on the numerous issues the past two seasons (as I don't think any QB would have won in that scenario) and he seems to have his confidence back at the end of last year, then I could see him returning to where he was in 2015, which was in the discussion for the league MVP.

I don't believe 2015 was an outlier in terms of his performance, I think it was the natural ascent of his performance and he will return to that form in 2018.  I think a large part of that will be the difference in offensive line scheme, personnel, coaching, and talent.  He has never had a great offensive line, and this one has the potential to be great.  

Good stuff.  I still think he'll take another step forward just by virtue of having more time in the pocket.

[cooper]

andy dalton is no different now than when he was drafted outta college and hue jackson is a marginal coach at any level..

give dalton some time and some weapons..hes good enough to take any team deep into the playoffs and/or superbowl

[Atomic Orange]

ARZ: Sam Bradford - Above
ATL: Matt Ryan - Below
BTL: Joe Flacco - Above
BUF: Josh Allen - Above
CAR: Cam Newton - Tie
CHI: Mitchell Trubisky - Above
CLV: Tyrod Taylor - Above
DAL: Dak Prescot - Above
DEN: Case Keenum - Above
DET: Matt Stafford - Below
GBP: Aaron Rogers - Below
HOU: Deshaun Watson - Not Sure/Injury/Has he been figured out
IND: Andrew Luck - Above/Injury
JAX: Blake Bortles - Tie
JCC: Patrick Mahomes - Above
LAC: Phillip Rivers - Below but age tho
LAR: Jared Goff - Below/ He will continue to roll
MIA: Ryan Tannehill - Above
MIN: Kirk Cousins - Above
NEP: Tom Brady - Below
NOS: Drew Brees - Below but age tho
NYG: Eli Manning - Above
NYJ: Josh Rosen - Above
OAK: Derick Carr - Not sure which Carr will show up
PHI: Carson Wentz - Not Sure/injury
PIT: Ben Rothlesburger - Below
SFF: Jimmy Garapalo - Not Sure/Has he been figured out
SEA: Russell Wilson - Below
TBB: Jameis Winton - Above
TEN: Marcus Mariota - Tie/not sure
WAS: Alex Smith - Tie/not sure

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(07-01-2018, 08:05 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: This kind of seems to be the media perception of him as well, and it surprises me.  Maybe it is because his bad is SOOO BADDD.   And, right or wrong, the QB is going to get the brunt of the blame, but the first game of the season last year was so awful that I think people can't get passed it. 

The reality is, Dalton was on an upward trajectory that was similar to Peyton Manning's until the end of the 2015 season. I will always look at that season as the "what if he didn't get injured" season.  Regardless, once the Browns didn't let Hue leave without a contract, Dalton took a major step back for the past two years.  The first was largely a horrible scheme where the plays were so predictable and Dalton never had a moving pocket that he was a sitting duck.  No running game to speak of, and no real threats outside of AJ Green.  The second showed signs of life with Lazor, and improvements as the season wore on, largely due to some personnel and schematic changes in the offense.  

It is a leap of faith, granted, but if we give Dalton the benefit of the doubt on the numerous issues the past two seasons (as I don't think any QB would have won in that scenario) and he seems to have his confidence back at the end of last year, then I could see him returning to where he was in 2015, which was in the discussion for the league MVP.

I don't believe 2015 was an outlier in terms of his performance, I think it was the natural ascent of his performance and he will return to that form in 2018.  I think a large part of that will be the difference in offensive line scheme, personnel, coaching, and talent.  He has never had a great offensive line, and this one has the potential to be great.  

Yes sir. :andy:

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(06-29-2018, 05:22 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Admittedly I'm higher on him than most. Pretty sure Baltimore got rid of the wrong QB when they let Tyrod go to Buffalo. Hopefully we didn't make the exact same mistake.

You could be right about that.  I know he did well against us a few years ago while in Baltimore.  I like the guy, I just don't think he's better than Andy.  As to the latter, I wouldn't worry about that, from what I've read thus far, he'll be on the bench up there as well.

[*ochocincos*]

I voted middle of road (15-18).

I put the following ahead of Dalton:
Brady
Brees
Rodgers
Roethlisberger
Matt Ryan
Cam Newton
Rivers
Stafford
Wilson
Luck (when healthy)
Cousins
Alex Smith (hasn't had double-digit INTs in a season since 2010)
Derek Carr
Winston

All of the above have had 3+ seasons in the league.
I also think Wentz, Garoppolo, Goff, and Watson could all be better than Dalton if they can continue their recent high performance from this past season, but I didn't include them because of smaller sample size.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

Dak Prescott is better than Dalton?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-01-2018, 06:01 AM)grampahol Wrote: Michael Lorenzen will probably be our next QB/Center fielder/relief pitcher/ home run king..  Why the hell not at this point ? Lol

You ever looked into an exhaust fan for your shop?  I think those stain/urethane fumes are getting to you.




:jk:

[fredtoast]

(06-29-2018, 05:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: After looking closer at Kirk Cousins numbers I am going to rank him ahead of Dalton.

He has had 3 straight years of 25+ tds, 4000+ yds and 93+ passer rating.  And in none of those years was his running game ranked higher than 20th.

I just looked at Alex Smith's number last year and saw something incredible.

In Smith's first 4 years as a starter in KC ('13-16) he did almost nothing downfield.  On passes thrown at least 20 yards past the line of scrimmage (not 20yd completions) for those 4 years Smith completed a combined 35 for 1161 yds, 7 tds and a 67.5 passer rating.  Last year alone he completed 27 for 1179 yds, 11td, and a 133.9 rating.  Those are sick deep ball numbers.

So Alex goes ahead of Andy.  I now have Dalton at #10.  I am really not that far off of the 11-15 vote.

Here are the names I see people putting ahead of Dalton that I don't.

Stafford.   Amazing arm.  Has large totals because he is a much higher volume passer than Dalton but their "efficiency number" (comp%, td%, int%, yds/att) are almost identical.  Stafford also fumbles a lot more than Dalton.

Carr.  He has only had one really good year and it was not close to Dalton's best year (96.7 to 106.2) and Dalton's career rating is also better (88.7 to 87.5)

Newton.  Probably has one of the strongest cases for being ranked ahead of Dalton, but most people here don't like him because of his personality.  Not as good of a passer as Dalton, but he is a freak one-of-a-kind weapon running the ball.

Wentz, Preskott, Goff, and Watson are all good looking QBs but they are also just "one year wonders" at this time.  Remember when RG3 finished 3rd in the league in passer rating as a rookie? Remember when Josh Freeman was 6th his second year?  Remember when Brian Griese led the league in second season? I have nothing against any of these current young guys, but I have to see them do it longer before I rank them among the best in the league.

Anyone else getting a lot of mentions that I have missed?

[*SHRacerX*]

(06-30-2018, 09:43 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Not a fan of Hugh. He was sloppy and, sorry to say, too conservative. He was crafty no doubt, but I’m not sure or convinced with his coaching abilities.He talked well, but he didn’t have it. That’s my opinion though. I know many disagree. TBH, I’m thankful he is gone. Otherwise, ML might have retired and Hugh being HC. He’s not a good HC. His past and present resemble that opinion.

One thing I will say for those 1-31 Browns teams:  They fought.  I think it is unfair to judge him as HC without any semblance of talent as they were all jettisoned for draft picks.  He just got his second draft class and no one has taken the field.  I think we will see a very competitive Browns team this year.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-01-2018, 09:29 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: ARZ: Sam Bradford - Above
ATL: Matt Ryan - Below
BTL: Joe Flacco - Above
BUF: Josh Allen - Above
CAR: Cam Newton - Tie
CHI: Mitchell Trubisky - Above
CLV: Tyrod Taylor - Above
DAL: Dak Prescot - Above
DEN: Case Keenum - Above
DET: Matt Stafford - Below
GBP: Aaron Rogers - Below
HOU: Deshaun Watson - Not Sure/Injury/Has he been figured out
IND: Andrew Luck - Above/Injury
JAX: Blake Bortles - Tie
JCC: Patrick Mahomes - Above
LAC: Phillip Rivers - Below but age tho
LAR: Jared Goff - Below/ He will continue to roll
MIA: Ryan Tannehill - Above
MIN: Kirk Cousins - Above
NEP: Tom Brady - Below
NOS: Drew Brees - Below but age tho
NYG: Eli Manning - Above
NYJ: Josh Rosen - Above
OAK: Derick Carr - Not sure which Carr will show up
PHI: Carson Wentz - Not Sure/injury
PIT: Ben Rothlesburger - Below
SFF: Jimmy Garapalo - Not Sure/Has he been figured out
SEA: Russell Wilson - Below
TBB: Jameis Winton - Above
TEN: Marcus Mariota - Tie/not sure
WAS: Alex Smith - Tie/not sure

You lost me at "Tie" with Blake Bortles, who had a superior line, back, and defense.  He also had the advantage of playing in an injury-depleted division.  I think Dalton has done better.  

[HarleyDog]

(07-03-2018, 07:56 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: One thing I will say for those 1-31 Browns teams:  They fought.  I think it is unfair to judge him as HC without any semblance of talent as they were all jettisoned for draft picks.  He just got his second draft class and no one has taken the field.  I think we will see a very competitive Browns team this year.  

They were still in it in many games last year at the end. They are getting much better.

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-02-2018, 03:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I just looked at Alex Smith's number last year and saw something incredible.

In Smith's first 4 years as a starter in KC ('13-16) he did almost nothing downfield.  On passes thrown at least 20 yards past the line of scrimmage (not 20yd completions) for those for years Smith completed a combined 35 for 1161 yds, 7 tds and a 67.5 passer rating.  Last year alone he completed 27 for 1179 yds, 11td, and a 133.9 rating.  Those are sick deep ball numbers.

So Alex goes ahead of Andy.  I now have Dalton at #10.  I am really not that far off of the 11-15 vote.

Here are the names I see people putting ahead of Dalton that I don't.

Stafford.   Amazing arm.  Has large totals because he is a much higher volume passer than Dalton but their "efficiency number" (comp%, td%, int%, yds/att) are almost identical.  Stafford also fumbles a lot more than Dalton.

Carr.  He has only had one really good year and it was not close to Dalton's best year (96.7 to 106.2) and Dalton's career rating is also better (88.7 to 87.5)

Newton.  Probably has one of the strongest cases for being ranked ahead of Dalton, but most people here don't like him because of his personality.  Not as good of a passer as Dalton, but he is a freak one-of-a-kind weapon running the ball.

Wentz, Preskott, Goff, and Watson are all good looking QBs but they are also just "one year wonders" at this time.  Remember when RG3 finished 3rd in the league in passer rating as a rookie? Remember when Josh Freeman was 6th his second year?  Remember when Brian Griese led the league in second season? I have nothing against any of these current young guys, but I have to see them do it longer before I rank them among the best in the league.

Anyone else getting a lot of mentions that I have missed?

I can only hope that John Ross can provide that kind of deep ball number impact as Tyreek Hill has done for the Chiefs.  

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-03-2018, 07:59 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: They were still in it in many games last year at the end. They are getting much better.

Hue was successful as a coach in many places before going to Cleveland and then being handed a huge turd, but they wisely waited out the process and I think since they have all gone through the 1-31 together, they will come together as a team.  I would be ecstatic if they took down pitt week 1, but I doubt it.  

[cooper]

(07-03-2018, 07:56 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: One thing I will say for those 1-31 Browns teams:  They fought.  I think it is unfair to judge him as HC without any semblance of talent as they were all jettisoned for draft picks.  He just got his second draft class and no one has taken the field.  I think we will see a very competitive Browns team this year.  

all losing teams "fight" according to their coaches and managers

1-31  ?  come on dude

[cooper]

(07-03-2018, 08:03 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I can only hope that John Ross can provide that kind of deep ball number impact as Tyreek Hill has done for the Chiefs.  

one can only hope he can stay healthy and learn the playbook

lol@ deep ball impact