Surprising "pressure rate" numbers for Dalton and our defense.

[fredtoast]

According the FootballOutsiders the Bengals defense ranked 4th in the league in "pressure rate" on the opposing QB.  They were one of only 4 teams to rank in the top ten each of the last two seasons, and only the Broncos and Bengals have ranked in the top ten for each of the last three years.

The Bengals ranked 11th in DVOA (FO's metric for ranking defensive efficiency) "with pressure" and 30th when they did not get pressure. Since they have decent DVOA with pressure that generally means they get pressure without sending multiple blitzers that leave too few men in coverage.  But the fact that they suck so bad when they don't get pressure means they have problems in coverage. 


But here is the real surprise regarding "pressure".  Andy Dalton had the 9th LOWEST pressure rate among starting QBs.  His DVOA under pressure was 22nd and he was 13th when not under pressure.

[HarleyDog]

DVOA (Defense-adjusted Value Over Average). Had to look it up.

So your post is stating Dalton works better when he's not pressured and our secondary is a weak? With the new additions, we may have addressed this problem. However, Marvin will have to get rid of his mindset of sticking with veterans and putting the best guys on the field.

[SunsetBengal]

So the defense works better when they get pressure?  And the secondary struggles when opposing QBs are allowed time to find open men?  That is pure genius, right there.  I wonder why anyone on the Bengals coaching staff or Management didn't think of that.  


Kind of reminds me of when Sheldon Cooper explained football to Leonard Hofstetter.  

[HarleyDog]

(07-05-2018, 05:38 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Kind of reminds me of when Sheldon Cooper explained football to Leonard Hofstetter.  

Friggen love that show!

[fredtoast]

(07-05-2018, 05:38 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: So the defense works better when they get pressure?  And the secondary struggles when opposing QBs are allowed time to find open men?  That is pure genius, right there.  I wonder why anyone on the Bengals coaching staff or Management didn't think of that.  

These are rankings.  Not raw scores.

Every team does worse when they don't get pressure, but if every team did worse at the same rate when they did not get pressure then the rankings would not change

[Tiger Teeth]

(07-05-2018, 05:43 PM)HarleyDog Wrote: Friggen love that show!

[*TheLeonardLeap*]

(07-05-2018, 03:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: But here is the real surprise regarding "pressure".  Andy Dalton had the 9th LOWEST pressure rate among starting QBs.  His DVOA under pressure was 22nd and he was 13th when not under pressure.

Not that big of a surprise, really. Dalton has a quick release (generally ranks right behind Brady), and the Bengals were running a simplified offense with a ton of quick short passes in an effort to keep him from dying.

If you don't hold onto the ball, you can't be pressured. Very few pressures with 3-step-drops and pre-snap throw decisions. It doesn't make for a very good offense, but less pressure.

Reminder that Dalton was on pace for a 54.5% completion, 197 YPG (5.97 YPA), 0 TD/32 INT, 64 sack season under Zampese.

[*SHRacerX*]

(07-05-2018, 03:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: According the FootballOutsiders the Bengals defense ranked 4th in the league in "pressure rate" on the opposing QB.  They were one of only 4 teams to rank in the top ten each of the last two seasons, and only the Broncos and Bengals have ranked in the top ten for each of the last three years.

The Bengals ranked 11th in DVOA (FO's metric for ranking defensive efficiency) "with pressure" and 30th when they did not get pressure. Since they have decent DVOA with pressure that generally means they get pressure without sending multiple blitzers that leave too few men in coverage.  But the fact that they suck so bad when they don't get pressure means they have problems in coverage. 


But here is the real surprise regarding "pressure".  Andy Dalton had the 9th LOWEST pressure rate among starting QBs.  His DVOA under pressure was 22nd and he was 13th when not under pressure.

It really isn't surprising that Dalton was ranked there.  The scheme is very much "ball out quickly" and that was almost out of necessity given the deficiencies on the offensive line.  

The interesting stat was regarding the defense.  I wonder how much of that could be attributed to the "don't get beat over the top"mentality and how much of it is poor safety/LB coverage of TEs and underneath.  

[bengals67]

The reason for the ranking is Dalton's quick release and an offense that depended on quick release  to save the life of the QB.

This was done because our o line was awful in pass pro and worse in run blocking under the Alexander system.

No one who watched Bodine getting thrown back into Dalton's face or Og getting beaten like a bass drum is going to think that Bengals o line was responsible for "lack of pressures."

Stats can be very misleading.

[cooper]

(07-05-2018, 03:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: According the FootballOutsiders the Bengals defense ranked 4th in the league in "pressure rate" on the opposing QB.  They were one of only 4 teams to rank in the top ten each of the last two seasons, and only the Broncos and Bengals have ranked in the top ten for each of the last three years.

The Bengals ranked 11th in DVOA (FO's metric for ranking defensive efficiency) "with pressure" and 30th when they did not get pressure. Since they have decent DVOA with pressure that generally means they get pressure without sending multiple blitzers that leave too few men in coverage.  But the fact that they suck so bad when they don't get pressure means they have problems in coverage. 


But here is the real surprise regarding "pressure".  Andy Dalton had the 9th LOWEST pressure rate among starting QBs.  His DVOA under pressure was 22nd and he was 13th when not under pressure.

WOW..all these stats and terminology..joey Votto always hits 300  and yet the reds continue to stink

fans that have accepted mediocrity and losing always try to find stats  to ease the pain

only stat that is relevant i s W-L
 

[fredtoast]

(07-06-2018, 10:01 AM)cooper Wrote: WOW..all these stats and terminology..joey Votto always hits 300  and yet the reds continue to stink

fans that have accepted mediocrity and losing  always try to find stats  to ease the pain

only stat that is relevant i s W-L
 

Don't see how these stats ease any pain.  They show that we have problems with coverage on defense when we don't get pressure and our QB is in the botom half of the league compared to others when under pressure.

And no one here has "accepted mediocrity".  That is just a common trope used by people with mediocre lives to try and make themselves sound superior.  So next time you want to brag about how great you are please list the amazing accomplishments you have achieved by not "accepting mediocrity" in your real life.  We all like to know about the famous people on these boards.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(07-06-2018, 02:36 AM)TheLeonardLeap Wrote: Not that big of a surprise, really. Dalton has a quick release (generally ranks right behind Brady), and the Bengals were running a simplified offense with a ton of quick short passes in an effort to keep him from dying.

If you don't hold onto the ball, you can't be pressured. Very few pressures with 3-step-drops and pre-snap throw decisions. It doesn't make for a very good offense, but less pressure.

Reminder that Dalton was on pace for a 54.5% completion, 197 YPG (5.97 YPA), 0 TD/32 INT, 64 sack season under Zampese.

Ugh, can you imagine if that actually happened? lol

(07-06-2018, 10:01 AM)cooper Wrote: WOW..all these stats and terminology..joey Votto always hits 300  and yet the reds continue to stink

fans that have accepted mediocrity and losing always try to find stats  to ease the pain

only stat that is relevant i s W-L
 

Oh shut up.

Jesus Christ, statistics are there to be analysed and enjoyed; is your goal to literally ruin all discussion that we have on these boards?

[cooper]

(07-06-2018, 10:18 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Don't see how these stats ease any pain.  They show that we have problems with coverage on defense when we don't get pressure and our QB is in the botom half of the league compared to others when under pressure.

And no one here has "accepted mediocrity".  That is just a common trope used by people with mediocre lives to try and make themselves sound superior.  So next time you want to brag about how great you are please list the amazing accomplishments you have achieved by not "accepting mediocrity" in your real life.  We all like to know about the famous people on these boards.

no use of metaphors here my friend and I love your extrapolation that I was bragging..LOL

personally..the only stat I care about is wins and losses

fred... i have reviewed your posts..it appears you have problems with people that are intellectually superior..you try too hard

[cooper]

(07-06-2018, 10:30 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Ugh, can you imagine if that actually happened? lol


Oh shut up.

Jesus Christ, statistics are there to be analysed and enjoyed; is your goal to literally ruin all discussion that we have on these boards?

how many times do I have to type this..if the Bengals offensive line performs well..this team has enough talent to go deep into the playoffs

lol@ "ruining all discussion"...someone does not agree with you discussion is ruined I guess

[fredtoast]

(07-06-2018, 12:31 PM)cooper Wrote:  i have reviewed your posts..it appears you have problems with people that are intellectually superior.

You would have no way of knowing this based on the discussions on this board.

[grampahol]

Wow.. "extrapolation"... Just think about that word for just a moment.  .. Go ahead, I'll wait for you to digest it.......... Done wiping yet? Good.
Well, that's proof that we're mere mortals and destined to die at some future date .
But before dying lets all chip in for a statue to commemorate the first known use of extrapolation on any football board ever in existence. And let's not settle for just any old "mediocre"  "extrapolation" statue either ...
After all, lest we forget, some board members are special and deserving of riding only on the special bus. 

God! I feel better already.