(08-25-2015, 04:07 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton has multiple come from behind victories in his NFL career.
And I saw nothing that made McCarron look anymore like a leader than Dalton. I'd like to know what exactly he did that made you think he "looked more like a leader". Was it the fact that he completed some passes in the fourth quarter of a preseason game that was already over? Really? If not then what was it?
All of your claims about "how they look" makes no sense. It reminds me of the threads where people claim that every time Green looks upset on the sidelines it means he hates Dalton and wants out of Cincinnati. It is nothing more than people projecting their own thoughts into the heads of other people.
Well, if you want to cut off the half of the post demonstrating Dalton's clear leadership deficiencies, have at it. I was only comparing the two QB's we're likely to have come September 3 at Oakland, not saying McCarron is the second coming of Namath. It's no contest between the two. McCarron wins national titles and bangs supermodels to boot. He's given no reason to doubt his leadership, while Dalton has at every turn. From what little we've seen of A.J., the "unknown" with a little swagger gets the nod over the boyscout leader as far as leadership goes.
The most troubling thing to me about AJ is he def looked timid to afraid to chuck the ball down the field.
I mean Peerman must have had a career night for receptions.
All 3 of the WRs in the game at the time were on the faster side and were running deeper routes..
25-11? In the pre-season?? trying to make some good take for yourself?? Take a shot at least....
(08-25-2015, 04:00 PM)GarbageDisposal Wrote: Can it really be argued McCarron looked like a more confident, convincing leader? After the safety he was like "ain't no thing" and came back for a TD drive.
Apples to oranges. Dalton is playing against much better players and a much more aggressive scheme. I'm not excusing Dalton's performance, but it's easy to be confident throwing underneath routes on prevent defense. You do realize the Bucs pretty much let us march down the field? Not to mention it was against their 2nd and 3rd string players. We are talking guys who likely won't be in the NFL this season playing soft defense. The level of competition just makes otherwise average talent look that much better. Do you honestly think McCarron would have looked better than Dalton playing against the Bucs 1st string?
Well does he have a name or should I call him... lawyer?
(08-25-2015, 04:15 PM)GarbageDisposal Wrote: Well, if you want to cut off the half of the post demonstrating Dalton's clear leadership deficiencies, have at it. I was only comparing the two QB's we're likely to have come September 3 at Oakland, not saying McCarron is the second coming of Namath. It's no contest between the two. McCarron wins national titles and bangs supermodels to boot. He's given no reason to doubt his leadership, while Dalton has at every turn.
You have no clue what it takes to be a leader among grown men. College boys may be impressed with "winning college championships and banging super models" but not grown men. Matt Lienert also won a National Championship and banged super models.
All we see as fans are little things like pregame speeches. If squealing at teammates is all it took to be a great leader then a lot of people here could do it. But being a leader of grown men is about a lot more than that. It is about how he goes about his everyday business with the team that none of us ever see.
(08-25-2015, 01:22 PM)GarbageDisposal Wrote: McCarron showed far better leadership than Dalton ever has in leading the team back from that abortion of a game with an 80 yard TD drive. Does anyone find it troubling that Marvin/Whit said they "passed" the leadership baton to Andy Dalton? Maybe he's just not cut out to be a leader. You can't force somebody to be something they're not. How can you be a leader and tell other people what to do -- call them out for their mistakes -- when you're constantly sailing interceptions left, right, and center? (and you come off as a complete cornball but that's another story) I kind of laughed when I read about Dalton "chewing out" Bodine for snap issues. At least he's doing that during practice and not during games. For Dalton it's the reverse -- front-runner when everything is going right, absolutely panics and self-destructs when the chips are down. We're in serious trouble if this is who we appointed as "leaders."
A lot of people blame Green, anybody but the QB, but when you have "fake leaders" running the show, people trying to assume roles they're not good at, does this not hurt team morale and have a trickle-down effect? I am 100% sure elite players would not be making so many sloppy errors if Peyton Manning (even the hobbled, no-feeling-in-fingertips form) were running the show. He just wouldn't allow it. When Dalton hits you with the "Aww shucks, please stop that" try-hard "leadership," it rings hollow.
Do you want this man leading your team?
Here's the thing about all that leadership talk--they may be saying it, but nobody really believes it. What else can they do, though? Stuck in a bad place and trying everything they can to make the most of it. Bottom line, though--it's a bunch of empty words.
A leader wakes up a leader every day. A leader doesn't grow into it or learn it or take ownership of it. It's in his DNA. You have it or you don't and it's no more complicated than that. A leader makes everyone around them better and no one around him dares let him down. Do we have that here?
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ― Albert Einstein
(08-25-2015, 04:56 PM)McC Wrote: Here's the thing about all that leadership talk--they may be saying it, but nobody really believes it. What else can they do, though? Stuck in a bad place and trying everything they can to make the most of it. Bottom line, though--it's a bunch of empty words.
A leader wakes up a leader every day. A leader doesn't grow into it or learn it or take ownership of it. It's in his DNA. You have it or you don't and it's no more complicated than that. A leader makes everyone around them better and no one around him dares let him down. Do we have that here?
Repped. The fact he's being "appointed" or "passed" a leader job in his FIFTH season is highly troubling. Are we to believe he suddenly just decided to be an effective leader as a starting QB 5 years in? We'll probably still make the postseason, but it just doesn't bode well for having actual leadership. And that's been a big problem with this team with out flat postseason performances. And "it starts with the head coach" to quote LT.
(08-25-2015, 04:56 PM)McC Wrote: Here's the thing about all that leadership talk--they may be saying it, but nobody really believes it. What else can they do, though? Stuck in a bad place and trying everything they can to make the most of it. Bottom line, though--it's a bunch of empty words.
A leader wakes up a leader every day. A leader doesn't grow into it or learn it or take ownership of it. It's in his DNA. You have it or you don't and it's no more complicated than that. A leader makes everyone around them better and no one around him dares let him down. Do we have that here?
No we don't.
Let me pose this direct question to the board. Are you ok with Dalton's tone during that in-game interview? Shenanigans from other players aside, are you satisfied with him taking the time to primp his hair and act coy after an atrocious showing? Shouldn't a ''leader" be more focused on being displeased with that kind of performance than the angle at which his hair is lying?
This guy is convinced christ almighty is going to come down from the heavans and woosh his pathetic ducks down the field right into the waiting arms of AJ. Thats a born FOLLOWER.
(08-25-2015, 05:09 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: No we don't.
Let me pose this direct question to the board. Are you ok with Dalton's tone during that in-game interview? Shenanigans from other players aside, are you satisfied with him taking the time to primp his hair and act coy after an atrocious showing? Shouldn't a ''leader" be more focused on being displeased with that kind of performance than the angle at which his hair is lying?
This guy is convinced christ almighty is going to come down from the heavans and woosh his pathetic ducks down the field right into the waiting arms of AJ. Thats a born FOLLOWER.
Try to picture Boomer's team taking a dive and what his reaction might be.
“Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I’m not sure about the universe.” ― Albert Einstein
(08-25-2015, 04:21 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You have no clue what it takes to be a leader among grown men. College boys may be impressed with "winning college championships and banging super models" but not grown men. Matt Lienert also won a National Championship and banged super models.
All we see as fans are little things like pregame speeches. If squealing at teammates is all it took to be a great leader then a lot of people here could do it. But being a leader of grown men is about a lot more than that. It is about how he goes about his everyday business with the team that none of us ever see.
It's why I don't even bother speculating on those types of things. I stick to what I see on the field.
(08-25-2015, 05:09 PM)Vas Deferens Wrote: No we don't.
Let me pose this direct question to the board. Are you ok with Dalton's tone during that in-game interview? Shenanigans from other players aside, are you satisfied with him taking the time to primp his hair and act coy after an atrocious showing? Shouldn't a ''leader" be more focused on being displeased with that kind of performance than the angle at which his hair is lying?
This guy is convinced christ almighty is going to come down from the heavans and woosh his pathetic ducks down the field right into the waiting arms of AJ. Thats a born FOLLOWER.
Russell Wilson thought God intervened in the interception in order to teach him a lesson or something.
(08-25-2015, 07:23 PM)McC Wrote: That guy who went to the SB. Yeah, him, the MVP. Apparently, you don't think he was a leader.
If leadership is defined on how the team performs then we have different leaders every year. Some seasons guys are good leaders then next year they are not.
Doesn't seem like a great way to define leadership to me.
It looks like Boomer was only a good leader for one season in his entire 14 year career. Other than the '88 season Boomer was 68-89 as a starter. And of the 11 other years where he started more than 5 games he only had 2 winning seasons.
(08-25-2015, 07:48 PM)jason Wrote: I thought we all agreed that Dre Kirkpatrick was the leader of this team now... Because he intercepted Peyton Manning or something.
Put a C on that boys chest!
I thought Whitworth was a leader.. and Peko... didn't see them grouping the team up to put the pieces back together. Lets face it, there aren't really any leaders on this team.... other than Burfict
(08-25-2015, 04:00 PM)GarbageDisposal Wrote:
I never said he played stunning or mistake-free football. He did not have the deer in the headlights look that Dalton has any time things go wrong. There were many things that went wrong, but the entire time he looked like he commanded the huddle and believed he'd come back on the next drive and right the ship (which he did on the TD drive). When things start going horribly wrong, Dalton has that familiar look like he just soiled himself a little and you can't say it doesn't rub off on the whole team when "Bad Andy" shows up. Can it really be argued McCarron looked like a more confident, convincing leader? After the safety he was like "ain't no thing" and came back for a TD drive. The "Dalton Way" is letting it snowball, being a try-hard and throwing them another pick.
Right, because Dalton hasn't lead any 4th quarter comebacks in his career. I forgot every time things weren't going well Dalton crashes and burns. Not to mention, you're tooting McCarron's horn for scoring a touchdown on 2nd ad 3rd stringers with dink and dunk passes on a prevent defense in a preseason game. I think it can definitely be argued that Dalton (regardless of his faults) has shown much more confidence in getting the job done then McCarron so far in the NFL.
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