Here's How Much Last Night's Performance Concerns Me

[yellowxdiscipline]

But Dalton was bad, so the season is doomed……..

[tigershrimp]

(08-25-2015, 09:08 PM)jjvolt Wrote: There is no excuse for a 5th yr starting qb to play that bad. No matter what their goals were in this preseason game. Without looking at google, i would bet dalton owns the top 4 worst games in the last 5 yrs during reg season, preseason and post season, statistically speaking.

Does that count Johnny Football's coming out party vs. the Bengals last year? Y'know, "Midgetgate"?  

[3wt]

(08-25-2015, 05:58 PM)McC Wrote: Any time you walk out onto the field, something is at stake.  Being stomped on is always a bad thing.

Andy's psyche is in a bad place, believe me.  You might not see it now, but I do.  It's in his eyes.  The pressure he feels is enormous and it just might be the thing that breaks him.  I hope I'm wrong.

Agreed.

And the bad place is in AJ Green's eyes too.

The score doesn't bother me.  The way we played did, and it's not just a pre-season trend

[McC]

(08-25-2015, 07:35 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Call me crazy, but I love the look of being ticked off on AD last night. I am glad he is facing adversity in the pre-season versus waiting to the post season ti implode.

As much as I hated watching us getting our butts handed to us, the entire team got to eat a whole bunch of humble pie in a pre-season game which to my knowledge has not happened with our 1st team defense and offense in one game in a very long time.

I look for them all to rebound and prove a point versus the Bears.

I get what you're saying but I'm not sure coming back strong the next game is proving the point that needs proving.  What needs proving is that you can stop the bleeding, right the ship, pick your cliche as it is happening.  This is the repetitive scenario that keeps playing out in the well known losses.--a thing goes wrong and that leads to another something and another and so on.

Stepping up can be contagious.  So can f-ing up.  That's what needs proven, that they can overcome in the midst of the nightmare.  We already know they can rebound the next week(except the playoffs, when there is no next week). 

Now they need to discover how to not let the house come down if the walls shake a couple times.

[McC]

(08-25-2015, 07:38 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Marvin was counting snaps. Seemed like they were out there so long because well... they kept going 3 and out haha. Their snap count was low for how far in the game they were due to their inability to move the ball.

Good thing he wasn't counting yards.  They would have had to spend the night.

[*bengalfan74*]

(08-25-2015, 09:42 PM)McC Wrote: I get what you're saying but I'm not sure coming back strong the next game is proving the point that needs proving.  What needs proving is that you can stop the bleeding, right the ship, pick your cliche as it is happening.  This is the repetitive scenario that keeps playing out in the well known losses.--a thing goes wrong and that leads to another something and another and so on.

Stepping up can be contagious.  So can f-ing up.  That's what needs proven, that they can overcome in the midst of the nightmare.  We already know they can rebound the next week(except the playoffs, when there is no next week). 

Now they need to discover how to not let the house come down if the walls shake a couple times.

Right ! When you get smacked jump up and smack back harder.

We curl up in a fetal position at the least resistance and it's a recurring theme time and again !

[*Nately120*]

I wouldn't start worrying about how to use our inevitable top 5 pick quite yet, but I can't help but notice how a lot of QBs who are pretty good have looked a lot better than Dalton so far in preseason. Maybe no one told those fools that the games don't count?

[CincyKid]

Tampa Bay was winless at home last year in Lovies 1st yr...................2-14...............Shula Days

He must change the culture down there........even in preseason

Whole lotta "our house" was thrown around early and often last week

Bengals just wanted to get their 1's X amount of snaps w/o anyone blowing out a knee or ankle

I almost fell out when Eifert took the shot to his elbow, went down holding it awkwardly then the camera zoomed in on him w that NOT AGAIN look on his face

Preseason is get in sync, play your draft picks and guys who missed last yr w/ injuries, weed out the crap, look for development guys and find the last 5 or 6 roster spots..........not get MJ jacked up for 6-8 weeks or put Eifert back on IR

Think about our TE situation if Tyler goes down...............I like our rooks, but not yet

Lets get to Sept 13th w/o any injuries, make our cuts, set the PS and GO !..................don't worry 'bout preseason games

[*PhilHos*]

(08-25-2015, 10:13 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I wouldn't start worrying about how to use our inevitable top 5 pick quite yet, but I can't help but notice how a lot of QBs who are pretty good have looked a lot better than Dalton so far in preseason.  Maybe no one told those fools that the games don't count?

And I also saw some QBs who are inarguably better than Dalton have just as bad of a statline as Dalton in preseason week 2.

[BigPapaKain]

My god - I actually agree with Toast.

No wonder the house is so cold today!

[fredtoast]

(08-25-2015, 10:00 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Right ! When you get smacked jump up and smack back harder.

We curl up in a fetal position at the least resistance and it's a recurring theme time and again !

You mean like last year when we were behind in the fourth quarter against the Broncos, Panthers, and Ravens (twice)?  No wait.  We came back in all of those games and didn't lose any of them.

How about when we trailed the Chargers in the fourth quarter in 2012.  Nope,  we came back to win that game to.

How about in 2011 when we trailed the Browns, Bills, Jags, and Titans all in the fourth quarter.  Nope, we came back to win all of those games also.

Guess I am just not seeing this "Recurring theme time and again."

[*PhilHos*]

(08-25-2015, 09:08 PM)jjvolt Wrote: There is no excuse for a 5th yr starting qb to play that bad. No matter what their goals were in this preseason game. Without looking at google, i would bet dalton owns the top 4 worst games in the last 5 yrs during reg season, preseason and post season, statistically speaking.

And you'd be wrong. Joe Flacco (11.9) AND Cam Newton (13.3) both had worse passer ratings JUST THIS PAST WEEK than Dalton (15.7).

[fredtoast]

(08-25-2015, 09:08 PM)jjvolt Wrote: There is no excuse for a 5th yr starting qb to play that bad. No matter what their goals were in this preseason game. Without looking at google, i would bet dalton owns the top 4 worst games in the last 5 yrs during reg season, preseason and post season, statistically speaking.

This is a very good example of how far off reality a perception can be.

Since Andy came into the league in 2011 four starting QBs have had PLAYOFF games worse than Dalton's worst (44.7 Hou '12)

Andrew Luck......23.0....'14
T. J. Yates.........28.8....'11
Russell Wilson....44.3....'14
Ryan Lindley......44.3....'14

And since 2011 here is a list of most PLAYOFF games with a passer rating under 60

Andrew Luck........3
Andy Dalton.........2
Tom Brady...........1
Aaron Rodgers......1
Russell Wilson.......1
Kaepernick............1
4 others................1


When it comes to regular season games Dalton's 2.0 against the Browns last year is the lowest since he entered the league.  However that is his only game with with a passer rating less than 40.  Since 2011 39 other QBs have posted a passer rating under 40 in a regular season game with at least 20 attempts.  Ten QBs have done it multiple times (more than Dalton).

[Brownshoe]

(08-25-2015, 10:31 PM)BigPapaKain Wrote: My god - I actually agree with Toast.

No wonder the house is so cold today!

It really says something when toast is being the positive one haha

[*Nately120*]

(08-25-2015, 10:30 PM)PhilHos Wrote: And I also saw some QBs who are inarguably better than Dalton have just as bad of a statline as Dalton in preseason week 2.

I'm not saying it's the end of the world, but on a quick glance of week 2 (starters only):

Better than Dalton
Stafford
Tylenol Taylor
Johnny Fartball
Matt Ryan
Fitzmagic
Wilson
Alex Smith
Tannehill
Cutler
Luck
Brees
Bort Bortles
Payton Manning
Brian "freakin" Hoyer
Bridgewater
Carr
Clemens
Palmer
Rogers
Pig Ben
Mariotta
Winston
Glennon

Worse than Dalton
RGIII
Cam Newton
Eli Manning
Flake-o
McCown 
Foles

Didn't really play
Brady
Krapernick
Romo


Perhaps I'm being a bit biased, but that's how I see week 2.

[crispy]

(08-25-2015, 05:53 PM)Who Dey Time Wrote: It's ok when you bring play money.  Bengals did nothing last night because, frankly, they didn't have to.

Think about it.....only a few roster spots are up for grabs at the back end of the roster.  Starters are veteran players who understand what it takes to be ready for Oakland, when it actually means something.  What is the point in going out there and putting yourself at risk in a preseason game?  

I liken the Bengals now to the Colts of a few years ago.  Every year they would stink up the preseason, every year there would be stories, message board posts, TV analysts claiming their demise in eminent.  Never happened.  Why?  Because preseason games are completely useless for an established team.  

And, BTW, I would have posted the same thing last week after a "good" showing against New York.

I think the concern with most people is that the last 2 preseason games epitomizes the Bengals the last few years.  Look like a team that could go deep into the playoffs one week then the following week look like a team that will be drafting in the top 5 in the next draft.  If they have been consistent in the regular season over the last few years I doubt there would be as much concern, they'd be like "Oh well it's just preseason, we will bring it when it matters".  But they haven't been very consistent with their game play and intensity from one week to the next so people are concerned we are going to see more of the same this year from this team.

I know it's just preseason but it's still slightly concerning that the team can look this lethargic at times...........

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-25-2015, 08:04 PM)Johnny Cupcakes Wrote: Meh. You're nuts if it doesn't concern you a bit when the team looks that inept against the friggin' Bucs.  People may be going overboard with the panicking, but there is certainly enough reason to at least discuss that performance and call it what it is: pathetic.

The Bengals in no way looked like a team that will get the chance to be annihilated in a 5th straight playoff game.

I certainly have my share of concerns (everyone knows this) and I would be the very first to agree that I don't like their chances to win a playoff game.  But I personally put no stock in preseason performance in trying to predict or gauge the team's chances.

I've seen too many good to great teams play poorly in the preseason, to have them continue to play good to great in the regular season and beyond.  Conversely, I've been fooled too many times thinking a previously bad team has turned the corner because of success in the preseason, only to see them sucks balls when it matters.  I remember a few too many times thinking some of those turd sandwiches we were offered up in the 90's getting me to believe the preseason mattered, only to disappoint again.

IMHO, I think any team that has a lot of veterans and has had some recent success has so much less to play for, which already was little to begin with.  Look at poor AJ Green.  That cat probably has a 20-35 million dollar signing bonus waiting for after this season.  I can't even begin to imagine how stupid it must seem for him to have to go through the motiosn and risk it all for a meaningless game.   So many of those vets really don't even need the vanilla reps beyond the ones they get in practice, Dalton included. 

To each their own, but the only thing I care about is injuries.  I do like getting a look at some new guys, really just to see their size and how they move around.  But to me it's just fake football for the vets.  I think the league would be well served to get rid of the preseason entirely.

[Wes Mantooth]

(08-25-2015, 11:03 PM)Brownshoe Wrote: It really says something when toast is being the positive one haha

Consider it continued negativity, this time just targeted at fake football.  I get a rep to keep up around here.

[*Nately120*]

(08-26-2015, 12:20 AM)Wes Mantooth Wrote: Consider it continued negativity, this time just targeted at fake football.  I get a rep to keep up around here.

The Bengals sure pulled a lot of their regular season-grade crapfulness for a fake game, though.  I'd have an easier time swallowing this meaningless fake game had it not looked a bit like something of the real game variety.  Welp, next week Dalton will throw 4 TDs and apparently I'll be the one talking about how fake it is!

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(08-25-2015, 06:21 PM)McC Wrote: When he plays well, of course his psyche is in a good place.  Did you really just ask that?

I'm talking about how quickly it can fall apart if a little bad happens.  And, so often, it starts with him and it grows and grows and takes him to a really shattered place.

The whole team sukked but no one else has coaches talking about we're expecting leadership from him.  No one else has the whole world saying the same thing about him.  Forty wins?  Great.  Four straight playoffs?  Also great.
But the legacy is made in the playoffs.

Everybody else has a chimp on their backs.  Andy has King Kong.

And look at what coaches have done.  Get rid of it quick.  No, extend plays.  Be a leader.  Do this, now do this.  It can crush a guy.  Especially a mild mannered good guy.  They've done everything but let him be him and find the best way to use that and let the chips fall where they may.

We'll see what happens the next time a thing or two go wrong.  It's not just an Andy thing.  It's a Bengal thing.  They have raised letting things go south to an art form.  It's their disease.  It's their Achilles Heel.  And the brightest light is pointed right at 14.  That's a lot to stand up to.

This is a damn good point.....