Daugherty: Can Andy Dalton reach the 'elevation' the Cincinnati Bengals need?

[Bengalholic]

Paul Daugherty shares his views on Dalton as part of his recent blog post. What are your thoughts on what he had to say?

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/blogs/daugherty-blog/2018/07/26/daugherty-can-andy-dalton-reach-elevation-cincinnati-bengals-need/840780002/

With Dalton, the discussion always returns to one word:

Elevation.

The great QBs, the Super guys, make their teams better. It might be just for one year (Nick Foles last year) or it might be for a career. Cite the usual suspects: Brady. Brees. Roethlisberger. Rodgers.

Groomed by Jay Gruden, improved by the mind of Hue Jackson, surrounded by Pro Bowl pieces. Never bothered by competition, or pushed by it. No January skins on the wall.

Mike Brown uttered the utterly familiar when talking about his QB.       

“He needs a good horse to ride and we’re going to try to get him a stronger horse. I think we can. And when we do I think you’ll see him run a faster race.”

The horses Dalton has ridden over his seven years could fill out a Derby field.The Bengals keep adding them: Price and Glenn this year, Mixon and Ross the year before. Not to mention the conga-line of studs that preceded them, when the team was making the playoffs every year.

Now, Dalton is Bill Lazor’s project.

“Part of what you do to make a guy better is push him past his limits,” Lazor said to Owczarski. “If you’re always practicing what Andy does well, then Andy will continue to be what he is. If I, in an individual period or in practice, put him in a tough situation that pushes his limits of what he thinks he can do, he’s got a chance to become a better player.”

It’s a mission the quarterback had readily accepted. He knows that to join contemporaries Cam Newton, Matt Ryan and Russell Wilson in the “top quarterback” conversation, he must reach the same levels they have.

Here’s a thought: Maybe Andy Dalton simply isn’t those guys. He doesn’t have Wilson’s legs or creativity, he doesn’t have Newton’s size. He hasn’t elevated the Bengals the way Ryan did the Falcons two years ago.    

He doesn’t beat the Steelers. He’s 0-4 in the postseason, though to be fair three of those Ls can't be laid squarely on him. Only the home defeat to San Diego was a Dalton mess. But he didn’t make the Bengals better in the other three, either.

Elevation. That’s the point. 
    
The Bengals, because they are the Bengals, stay with the tried and not-quite-true. You can keep fixing your beloved ’65 Mustang. It’s never going to be a Ferrari.

Will this be the year that validates all the others? Twelve games in 2015 suggest it’s possible. All the other games suggest otherwise. As the great philosopher Popeye once noted, “I yam what I yam.’’

[*rfaulk34*]

(07-26-2018, 02:45 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Paul Daugherty shares his views on Dalton as part of his recent blog post. What are your thoughts on what he had to say?

https://www.cincinnati.com/story/sports/blogs/daugherty-blog/2018/07/26/daugherty-can-andy-dalton-reach-elevation-cincinnati-bengals-need/840780002/

With Dalton, the discussion always returns to one word:

Elevation.

The great QBs, the Super guys, make their teams better. It might be just for one year (Nick Foles last year) or it might be for a career. Cite the usual suspects: Brady. Brees. Roethlisberger. Rodgers.

Groomed by Jay Gruden, improved by the mind of Hue Jackson, surrounded by Pro Bowl pieces. Never bothered by competition, or pushed by it. No January skins on the wall.

Mike Brown uttered the utterly familiar when talking about his QB.       

“He needs a good horse to ride and we’re going to try to get him a stronger horse. I think we can. And when we do I think you’ll see him run a faster race.”

The horses Dalton has ridden over his seven years could fill out a Derby field.The Bengals keep adding them: Price and Glenn this year, Mixon and Ross the year before. Not to mention the conga-line of studs that preceded them, when the team was making the playoffs every year.

Now, Dalton is Bill Lazor’s project.

“Part of what you do to make a guy better is push him past his limits,” Lazor said to Owczarski. “If you’re always practicing what Andy does well, then Andy will continue to be what he is. If I, in an individual period or in practice, put him in a tough situation that pushes his limits of what he thinks he can do, he’s got a chance to become a better player.”

It’s a mission the quarterback had readily accepted. He knows that to join contemporaries Cam Newton, Matt Ryan and Russell Wilson in the “top quarterback” conversation, he must reach the same levels they have.

Here’s a thought: Maybe Andy Dalton simply isn’t those guys. He doesn’t have Wilson’s legs or creativity, he doesn’t have Newton’s size. He hasn’t elevated the Bengals the way Ryan did the Falcons two years ago.    

He doesn’t beat the Steelers. He’s 0-4 in the postseason, though to be fair three of those Ls can't be laid squarely on him. Only the home defeat to San Diego was a Dalton mess. But he didn’t make the Bengals better in the other three, either.

Elevation. That’s the point. 
    
The Bengals, because they are the Bengals, stay with the tried and not-quite-true. You can keep fixing your beloved ’65 Mustang. It’s never going to be a Ferrari.

Will this be the year that validates all the others? Twelve games in 2015 suggest it’s possible. All the other games suggest otherwise. As the great philosopher Popeye once noted, “I yam what I yam.’’

It's pretty straight forward and spot on. If you put the pieces around him, he can play up to that level, under normal circumstances. He's played well in prime time in spots, so he has the ability there. He hasn't shown much of anything in the post season. Excuses be damned, so don't bother.

He's not really near the top tier QBs to where he can make the throws to win big games semi-consistently. But he has the ability to win in the playoffs. The first half of the Chargers game proves that. The defense just has to stop shitting the bed in the playoffs and they need to shut someone down and get some turnovers. And when they've done that, THEY NEED TO NOT MAKE STUPIDASS BONEHEADED PLAYS TO LOSE THE GAME. Yeah, i'm over it, really. 

It makes my blood pressure start to rise when i have to type out all of those if's, but at this point i'm already too invested in this post to say fluck it. 

[Shake n Blake]

1. Daugherty has never been a fan of Dalton - this is fine, but it should be noted. EDIT: He also rips Joey Votto on a regular basis, if that tells you anything.

2. Foles himself was elevated by brilliant coaching. Something we sorely lack. Pederson and Reich were both former QB's who knew how to make Foles comfy and play to his strengths. They were very RPO heavy once Foles took over. On the other hand, the Bengals seem to go with yearly "themes" and try to squeeze the round peg into the square hole.

The only time I heard serious talk about playing to Dalton's strengths was 2015, when Hue said he removed a lot of routes Dalton wasn't comfortable throwing. 

3. "The horses Dalton has ridden over his seven years could fill out a Derby field." - Really Paul? Aside from AJ Green, who are these horses? 

Our run game has looked like this under Dalton:

2011: 19th in yards - 27th in yards per carry
2012: 18th in yards - 20th in yards per carry
2013: 18th in yards - 28th in yards per carry
2014:   6th in yards - 12th in yards per carry
2015: 13th in yards - 23rd in yards per carry
2016: 13th in yards - 23rd in yards per carry
2017: 31st in yards - 29th in yards per carry

Over this 7 year span, that has to be one of the least effective run games in the NFL.

As for other receivers, the only years he had a good #2 WR was 2013 and 2015...seasons which saw Dalton set franchise records for yards, TD's and passer rating. Every other year, guys were hurt or his #2 was someone like Jerome Simpson, Armon Binns or Brandon LaFell. The TE position has been a mixed bag at best with Gresham, a few games of Eifert and mediocre guys like Kroft and Uzomah. 

Sure, the Bengals have tried to draft help for Dalton, but it mostly hasn't panned out with anyone besides Green and a couple years of Marvin Jones.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(07-27-2018, 04:29 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. Daugherty has never been a fan of Dalton - this is fine, but it should be noted.

2. Foles himself was elevated by brilliant coaching. Something we sorely lack. Pederson and Reich were both former QB's who knew how to make Foles comfy and play to his strengths. They were very RPO heavy once Foles took over. On the other hand, the Bengals seem to go with yearly "themes" and try to squeeze the round peg into the square hole.

The only time I heard serious talk about playing to Dalton's strengths was 2015, when Hue said he removed a lot of routes Dalton wasn't comfortable throwing. 

3. "The horses Dalton has ridden over his seven years could fill out a Derby field." - Really Paul? Aside from AJ Green, who are these horses? 

Our run game has looked like this under Dalton:

2011: 19th in yards - 27th in yards per carry
2012: 18th in yards - 20th in yards per carry
2013: 18th in yards - 28th in yards per carry
2014:   6th in yards - 12th in yards per carry
2015: 13th in yards - 23rd in yards per carry
2016: 13th in yards - 23rd in yards per carry
2017: 31st in yards - 29th in yards per carry

Over this 7 year span, that has to be one of the least effective run games in the NFL.

As for other receivers, the only years he had a good #2 WR was 2013 and 2015...seasons which saw Dalton set franchise records for yards, TD's and passer rating. Every other year, guys were hurt or his #2 was someone like Jerome Simpson, Armon Binns or Brandon LaFell. The TE position has been a mixed bag at best with Gresham, a few games of Eifert and mediocre guys like Kroft and Uzomah. 

Sure, the Bengals have tried to draft help for Dalton, but it mostly hasn't panned out with anyone besides Green and a couple years of Marvin Jones.

That stuck out to me as well when I read this the other day.....