Dalton Could Still End Up Best Bengal QB Ever

[kevin]

Anderson took Bengals to 4 play-off seasons. Boomer took Bengals to 2 play-off seasons, as did Carson. Of course Anderson and Boomer reached Super Bowl. Carson never had a play-off win here. Dalton has taken Bengals to 5 play-off seasons. He went 7-7 last year with just awful blocking. If the blocking improves, so will the running and passing. Dalton is young enough his best years may be coming. I'm hoping Dalton and team return to quality team they were in 2015 before Dalton's injury. I'm hoping Dalton leads team to play-off wins and hopefully Super Bowl in his career which would make him best Bengal QB ever.

[Shake n Blake]

As I said in the "Dalton close to some franchise records" thread, Dalton will pass Kenny for #1 in TD's possibly this year, and will definitely be tops in every category with 2 more seasons. If he made a SB run, you'd have to put him up there...crazy as that is to think about.

[kevin]

and really not that crazy to consider. If I said who is Packers best QB ever, some might say Brett Favre, some might say AaRon Rodgers. I would say wait, hold on. Bart Starr took Packers to NFL Championship all through the 1960's.

I mention Starr who in his day people talked of Unitas, Jurgenson. In Dalton's time people talk of other QB's. Yet Starr knew how to win and Dalton has 5 play-off seasons for Bengals. I see them as blue collar workers at QB who go to work and get the job done. I could add Len Dawson as a blue collar winner. Also Ken Stabler. You can get to the Super Bowl with these type quarterbacks. More known for winning than a Johnny Unitas or John Elway arm. Joe Montana was kind of blue collar winner, but at Notre Dame and 49ers was best 2 minute drill late game QB that I ever saw. If Dalton can be a veteran who now reads defenses far better than a rookie, veteran enough he now see's the whole game, knows the game, mentally ahead of many players on the field during game. It does happen that a player reaches a veteran point where the game becomes easier to them as everything just kicks in mentally. It happened to Ken Anderson in 1981. I guess I'm talking Leadership. Veterans who step on the field and are no longer rookie apprentice but skilled craftsmen. Veteran QB's who just have reached total leadership. They dominate and are hard to beat. We have all seen these type veteran QB's. Dalton could become such a veteran field general.

Now some teams have several Hall Of Fame QB's. The Bengals don't even if I think Ken Anderson should be in. The Bengals have had a lot of losing seasons in the 50 year history. That's just a fact. If Dalton who already has the often losing franchise in 5 play-offs, if he goes to more play-offs and wins in play-offs and makes Super Bowl run. Certainly he would become most winning QB for Bengals ever and aren't wins what true fans want to see.

[HarleyDog]

If he wins a SB, he’s a shoe-in.

[kevin]

I already rank him above Carson Palmer of just 2 play-off seasons and 0-2 in play-offs here.

The 5 Bengals Play-Off Season Quarterbacks
1. Ken Anderson
2. Boomer Esiason
3. Andy Dalton
4. Carson Palmer
5. Virgil Carter

He wouldn't need a Super Bowl win to go into #1. Boomer only had 2 play-off seasons here. Dalton has 5. A 6th play-off season and winning in play-offs to me puts him over Boomer. Now Anderson had 4 play-off seasons here and that great 1981 season. Still, Dalton could go past even him with an AFC Championship. The window of opportunity is still open for AJ Green, Dalton, Atkins, Dunlap to get to a Super Bowl. The 5 play-off seasons when they were all young may mean as veterans they get there if the blocking and tackling and team work of other players gets on track. Hey, I'm all for Super Bowl Bengals in 2018 season. WHO DEY.

[*Go Cards*]

Put Dalton 3rd now with certainly a good chance to move up list.

But even though he will pass Anderson and Boomer in records, can not crown him better without at least as many playoff wins.

Two completely different QB eras with so many variables it is impossible to compare on stats alone.

Yet do like Dalton and as stated before believe he certainly has the opportunity to rise all the way to the top, and hope he does.

[Shake n Blake]

(08-08-2018, 01:42 AM)kevin Wrote: I already rank him above Carson Palmer of just 2 play-off seasons and 0-2 in play-offs here.  

The 5 Bengals Play-Off Season Quarterbacks
1. Ken Anderson
2. Boomer Esiason
3. Andy Dalton
4. Carson Palmer
5. Virgil Carter

He wouldn't need a Super Bowl win to go into #1.  Boomer only had 2 play-off seasons here.  Dalton has 5.  A 6th play-off season and winning in play-offs to me puts him over Boomer.   Now Anderson had 4 play-off seasons here and that great 1981 season. Still, Dalton could go past even him with an AFC Championship.  The window of opportunity is still open for AJ Green, Dalton, Atkins, Dunlap to get to a Super Bowl. The 5 play-off seasons when they were all young may mean as veterans they get there if the blocking and tackling and team work of other players gets on track.   Hey, I'm all for Super Bowl Bengals in 2018 season.  WHO DEY.

Both Boomer and Kenny earned MVP honors and made SB appearances. Those count for a lot of points IMO.

Playoff appearances are nice, but I'll have to see a few wins before considering him on par with those two.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-09-2018, 12:45 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Both Boomer and Kenny earned MVP honors and made SB appearances. Those count for a lot of points IMO.

Playoff appearances are nice, but I'll have to see a few wins before considering him on par with those two.

Yep. Playoff appearances don't mean jack shit compared to playoff wins, super bowl appearances and MVPs. I don't care if you string 10 appearances together. 

[TSwigZ]

“if he made a super bowl run”

[SunsetBengal]

At this point, Andy could lead the Bengals to a Superbowl victory, and many wouldn't be impressed. They would discount the victory, claiming that the team won the title in spite of Dalton, rather than because of him..

[Shake n Blake]

(08-16-2018, 01:16 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: At this point, Andy could lead the Bengals to a Superbowl victory, and many wouldn't be impressed.  They would discount the victory, claiming that the team won the title in spite of Dalton, rather than because of him..

Yep. That's what the whole "Andy needs a great team" narrative is about. It allows folks to dismiss Dalton as a poor QB while simultaneously explaining away any success by attributing it to teammates. He literally can't win.

[fredtoast]

(08-09-2018, 05:10 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: Yep. Playoff appearances don't mean jack shit compared to playoff wins, super bowl appearances and MVPs. I don't care if you string 10 appearances together. 

Claiming one playoff win is more impressive than 10 straight playoff appearances is ridiculous.

[fredtoast]

(08-16-2018, 11:38 AM)motoarch Wrote: I think era counts for a lot.  Dalton’s stats look bloated compared to ken and boomer cause the respective eras they played in

You can't compare raw numbers at all.  You have to look at how players ranked each year.

Ken Anderson led the league in pass efficiency rating 4 times (Steve Young is the only QB in history to finish #1 more times than Anderson), and finished in the top 10 nine times.  Anderson also led the league twice in passing yards and finished in the top 10 seven times.  Anderson also finished n the top 5 in td passes 6 times.

Dalton has never led the league in any passing category.  He has finished in the top ten in passer rating once ('15), passing yards once ('13), and passing tds 3 times (only once in top 5).

Anderson won an MVP Award and held the NFL single season pass completion record for almost 30 years.

Dalton does not even deserve to be in the same discussion with Anderson.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-16-2018, 01:54 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Claiming one playoff win is more impressive than 10 straight playoff appearances is ridiculous.

So...Kenny and Boomer only won one playoff game each?  o_o

[*bengalfan74*]

Dalton will pass Kenny and Boomer in playoff wins and stats before it's over. You heard it here first.

But there will still be those, like Shake says, that will dismiss his performance and attribute it to AJ, good defense, Gio and Mixon, etc.

[fredtoast]

(08-16-2018, 02:32 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: So...Kenny and Boomer only won one playoff game each?  o_o

Boomer is a perfect example of why this argument about how amazing it is for a QB to win a playoff game.

Boomers postseason stats in his Super Bowl season are worse that Andy Dalton's postseason stats.  Boomer was complete crap in the postseason.  He does not deserve any credit for those two playoff wins.  The Bengals had the number one rushing game in the league that year and that is why we won in the playoffs.  So why would playing like complete crap and getting bailed out by the running game make him a better a better QB than Dalton?

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-16-2018, 05:22 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Boomer is a perfect example of why this argument about how amazing it is for a QB to win a playoff game.

Boomers postseason stats in his Super Bowl season are worse that Andy Dalton's postseason stats.  Boomer was complete crap in the postseason.  He does not deserve any credit for those two playoff wins.  The Bengals had the number one rushing game in the league that year and that is why we won in the playoffs.  So why would playing like complete crap and getting bailed out by the running game make him a better a better QB than Dalton?

First, you state something i didn't come close to saying. Then, you completely ignore the question and go on some rant. 

I'm not in the mood for this BS. Boomer and Kenny were both MVPs of the league and played in the Super Bowl. Excuses be damned. Dalton is third until he can match what they've done. Then, with his superior overall numbers, he will be #1 in the pecking order. 

[fredtoast]

(08-16-2018, 11:28 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: First, you state something i didn't come close to saying. Then, you completely ignore the question and go on some rant. 

I'm not in the mood for this bullshit. Boomer and Kenny were both MVPs of the league and played in the Super Bowl. Excuses be damned. Dalton is third until he can match what they've done. Then, with his superior overall numbers, he will be #1 in the pecking order. 

I still agree both Boomer and Anderson should be ahead of Dalton.

All I was doing was pointing out how silly it is to claim Boomer is better because he won a playoff game.  He absolutely sucked in the post season when we went to the Super Bowl.  His numbers were worse than Dalton's playoff numbers.  So sometimes this "He won a playoff game so he is better" is just ridiculous.

Boomer is better than Dalton because he led the league in passer rating once and finished in the top 10 five times.  He also finished in the top 10 in tds and passing yards 7 times each.

[*rfaulk34*]

(08-17-2018, 09:55 AM)fredtoast Wrote: I still agree both Boomer and Anderson should be ahead of Dalton.

All I was doing was pointing out how silly it is to claim Boomer is better because he won a playoff game.  He absolutely sucked in the post season when we went to the Super Bowl.  His numbers were worse than Dalton's playoff numbers.  So sometimes this "He won a playoff game so he is better" is just ridiculous.

Boomer is better than Dalton because he led the league in passer rating once and finished in the top 10 five times.  He also finished in the top 10 in tds and passing yards 7 times each.

Yep.

[fredtoast]

(08-16-2018, 03:04 PM)motoarch Wrote: So what I just said but thanks for restating it.

I didn't just restate it.  I expounded on it.

And you are welcome.