AJ Green.

[*ochocincos*]

One of the only things I'd like to see Green do more of is truly go up and fight for the ball.

[djs7685]

(08-27-2015, 12:22 PM)ochocincos Wrote: One of the only things I'd like to see Green do more of is truly go up and fight for the ball.

He used to do that more often, and definitely agree that it would be nice to see again. I'm sure he's done it in the recent past that I'm not remembering, but I definitely can recall many more times in 2011 - 2012 where he would jump up and win those contested catches seemingly every time.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-27-2015, 12:47 PM)djs7685 Wrote: He used to do that more often, and definitely agree that it would be nice to see again. I'm sure he's done it in the recent past that I'm not remembering, but I definitely can recall many more times in 2011 - 2012 where he would jump up and win those contested catches seemingly every time.

He really hasn't. 
It's been my biggest issue for awhile now.

AJ Green is as talented as any WR in the NFL. That's why we should all hold him to a higher standard. He has the ability to be Randy Moss-esque. Especially given the new NFL rules.

[djs7685]

(08-27-2015, 12:50 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: He really hasn't. 
It's been my biggest issue for awhile now.

AJ Green is as talented as any WR in the NFL. That's why we should all hold him to a higher standard. He has the ability to be Randy Moss-esque. Especially given the new NFL rules.

Hasn't done it recently? Or are you saying he hasn't done it at all?

I seem to clearly remember him making some absurd catches in his rookie year and in 2012.

[67bengals]

AJ is the most gifted WR in franchise history.

Sometimes guys that are incredibly good don't do the little things because they think they can get by on talent and usually do.

I love AJ but he has got to stop dropping easy catches, cutting off routes and not playing the ball defensively on bad throws where the db has better position on him.

I think he is very dedicated and will work on these issues and have a great season.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-27-2015, 12:58 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Hasn't done it recently? Or are you saying he hasn't done it at all?

I seem to clearly remember him making some absurd catches in his rookie year and in 2012.

Recently. 2012 was really the last time he did any of that. We've just found ways to ignore that fact. 

[Daddy-O]

(08-26-2015, 05:03 PM)wolfkaosaun Wrote: Last year he had 7 games where he had 80 or more receiving yards. 5 of those games he had 100 or more yards. One game he had over 200 yards.
He had 4 games under 60 yards (not including the Denver game where he was visibly hurt).
Green played in 12 games, including the Denver game.

Dez Bryant had 9 games where he had 80 or more receiving yards. 4 of those games he had 100 or more yards. None with over 200 yards.
Bryant also had 4 games where he had under 60 yards.
Bryant played in all 16 games.

Calvin Johnson had 7 games where he had 80 or more receiving yards. 5 of those games he had 100 or more yards. None with over 200 yards.
Johnson had 6 games where he had under 60 yards.
Johnson played in 13 games. One game he was hurt early on, the other he left in the third quarter.

AJ Green's numbers are pretty much on par with them, even with missing time.

The numbers are very similar but I'd like to see how many tipped balls game off of their hands for interceptions due to a lack of focus.

[NKYRob]

(08-26-2015, 04:54 PM)thegimp Wrote: This. Chad was a basket case but he brought it every play. He ran great routes, engaged in blocks, and wanted the ball. AJ does each of these things, most of the time. Then he goes out and cuts off a route or misses a block or just doesn't catch the ball. AJ has shown he has the physical ability to be great, it just doesn't look like he always wants too.

Agree to disagree here I guess, but I remember for the longest time Chad being absolutely awful at blocking and wanting no part of it. Additionally, I specifically remember a game (I think it was against Arizona) where he was at fault for an interception, and instead of chasing down the DB, he literally sat on the field and pouted.

[fredtoast]

(08-27-2015, 11:47 AM)djs7685 Wrote: It's not just a hindsight thing either, the idea of Teddy being very good was thrown around a lot on the old board pre-2014 draft.

A lot of crazy stuff is thrown around among fans at draft time.  But no team in the league is going to take a chance on a 2nd round QB to replace a guy who had never missed the playoffs and was coming off a division championship year where he finished 3rd in tds, 7th in yards, and 15th in Passer Rating.

[jj22]

Green is a great receiver. But in order to be considered elite, he's going to have to take over games (by himself if need be) like others have. He hasn't done that since 2011-12. And he can't use the qb as an excuse as Gordon and Megatron has worked with some pretty bad ones and had great numbers/performances.

And any of our players that want to be considered elite, will have to shine in the playoffs. That is where reputations and careers are established. That's when we'll see them on top 100 lists etc. We need our "elite" players to play elite in big games. If Dalton is average okay, fine, but then we cant slam him for not shining in playoff games, while giving a pass to our supposed "elite" players. That's just not right. Why expect an average player to carry us out of our post season blues. We should be demanding more from our "elite" players. That's why Green is starting to lose some of the steam he gained after a strong rookie season.

We can't slam an "average/below average" player for not being able to carry the team in big games and give passes to our elite players. If anything the elite players should be taking the heat for not stepping up. Especially if they want to be considered elite. They've all had 4 shots at it, but it's the average player who is tasked with saving the franchise.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-27-2015, 02:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: A lot of crazy stuff is thrown around among fans at draft time.  But no team in the league is going to take a chance on a 2nd round QB to replace a guy who had never missed the playoffs and was coming off a division championship year where he finished 3rd in tds, 7th in yards, and 15th in Passer Rating.

Teddy wasn't a 2nd round QB though.
He should have been the top pick. 

[fredtoast]

(08-27-2015, 03:54 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Teddy wasn't a 2nd round QB though.
He should have been the top pick. 

And if you were 100% accurate projecting college QBs to the pros you would not be posting here.

I actually liked Bridgewater a lot.  I thought it was crazy that his stock should drop based on a workout against air.  His game film made him look like a pretty good bet to be a good NFL QB.  But it was still too big of a risk to take when our QB was coming off a very good year and had been improving every single season in the league.

[djs7685]

(08-27-2015, 02:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: A lot of crazy stuff is thrown around among fans at draft time.  But no team in the league is going to take a chance on a 2nd round QB to replace a guy who had never missed the playoffs and was coming off a division championship year where he finished 3rd in tds, 7th in yards, and 15th in Passer Rating.

After 2013 would have been a tough time to replace Andy, but I don't think it would have killed anyone if we just took the gamble, didn't give him an extension, drafted Bridgewater, and then see what happens from there. I can completely understand why things happened the way they did though, most teams absolutely do extend their current QB and call it a day, I get that. Zerker just mentioned that if there was a year where we could have had a legitimate replacement, it would have likely been last offseason. You usually don't see top QBs in free agency and you usually don't see top prospects outside of the top 10 in the draft.

Not even a slam against Andy, but Teddy looked like a great prospect, and despite a couple of high volume stats, let's not pretend that Andy looked like a top QB after 2013. He still looked pretty average in a lot of games and wasn't considered a top guy by anyone outside of a couple nutbags on the old board.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-27-2015, 04:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: And if you were 100% accurate projecting college QBs to the pros you would not be posting here.

I actually liked Bridgewater a lot.  I thought it was crazy that his stock should drop based on a workout against air.  His game film made him look like a pretty good bet to be a good NFL QB.  But it was still too big of a risk to take when our QB was coming off a very good year and had been improving every single season in the league.

There it is. Gotta take a personal shot?

How bad did it kill you to post in that thread about centers? 
Did it hurt when you typed after you made shit personal with me over Bodine not being good? 

[Interceptor]

(08-27-2015, 04:09 PM)djs7685 Wrote: After 2013 would have been a tough time to replace Andy, but I don't think it would have killed anyone if we just took the gamble, didn't give him an extension, drafted Bridgewater, and then see what happens from there. I can completely understand why things happened the way they did though, most teams absolutely do extend their current QB and call it a day, I get that. Zerker just mentioned that if there was a year where we could have had a legitimate replacement, it would have likely been last offseason. You usually don't see top QBs in free agency and you usually don't see top prospects outside of the top 10 in the draft.

Not even a slam against Andy, but Teddy looked like a great prospect, and despite a couple of high volume stats, let's not pretend that Andy looked like a top QB after 2013. He still looked pretty average in a lot of games and wasn't considered a top guy by anyone outside of a couple nutbags on the old board.

Bridgewater under this system? Might end up like Andy anyway.

[Stormborn]

Teddy is better at certain aspects than Andy is right now, and has more room to grow than Andy ever really had. One was a first round prospect after all.

I like Dennard but Teddy should be here.

[fredtoast]

(08-27-2015, 04:09 PM)djs7685 Wrote: After 2013 would have been a tough time to replace Andy, but I don't think it would have killed anyone if we just took the gamble, didn't give him an extension, drafted Bridgewater, and then see what happens from there. I can completely understand why things happened the way they did though, most teams absolutely do extend their current QB and call it a day, I get that. Zerker just mentioned that if there was a year where we could have had a legitimate replacement, it would have likely been last offseason. You usually don't see top QBs in free agency and you usually don't see top prospects outside of the top 10 in the draft.

Not even a slam against Andy, but Teddy looked like a great prospect, and despite a couple of high volume stats, let's not pretend that Andy looked like a top QB after 2013. He still looked pretty average in a lot of games and wasn't considered a top guy by anyone outside of a couple nutbags on the old board.

But you have to consider the cost.  We can't use a first round pick on a spot where we seem to have a young established starter.  

After the 2013 season Dalton was clearly in the "safe starter" category.  He was still considered inconsistent, but he had shown a high ceiling with a lot of good games.  From '11 through '13 Dalton was top 10 in number of games with a 100 passer rating, and he had won the Offensive Player of the Month in October 2013.  He didn't have to elevate his skill level.  He just had to elevate his consistency.

But what made him even a safer bet was the fact that he was getting better each year and winning more games against good teams.

Then came 2014.......

[fredtoast]

(08-27-2015, 04:35 PM)Stormborn Wrote: Teddy is better at certain aspects than Andy is right now, and has more room to grow than Andy ever really had. One was a first round prospect after all.

I like Dennard but Teddy should be here.

I like Teddy too, but after the '13 season Dalton was too safe of a starter to sacrifice a first round pick.

[Stormborn]

(08-27-2015, 04:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I like Teddy too, but after the '13 season Dalton was too safe of a starter to sacrifice a first round pick.

It was a solid year but he didn't really establish anything, just had a higher volume of... everything. 

He still displayed weaknesses that he was supposed to grow out of and still has those weaknesses to this day. 

Even if we had drafted Teddy I would've wanted Dalton to start. Then when a 2014 happens you're in a good position the next year without an extension looming.

I guess it comes down to whether you believe Andy is what his stats were, I don't think he really was. You're going to call that bs tho.

[fredtoast]

(08-27-2015, 04:15 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Did it hurt when you typed after you made shit personal with me over Bodine not being good? 

None of this hurts me.

I have always said the Bodine was not playing that great and needed to improve.  We just disagreed on if he could get better.  And nothing about that has changed at all.  

I still say it is possible for him to develop into a good NFL center and you don't.  We have yet to see who is correct.