Jon Brown

[Essex Johnson]

(08-22-2018, 07:34 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I think you calling Elliott "failed" and that he did "really bad" isn't a fair assessment.  It wasn't a run away and Randy wasn't perfect either.  But, to your point, Randy won the competition, although it was closer than you elude.

What if Brown is clearly better this preseason?  Why doesn't the same set of rules apply?

As I stated every position on a team is not a competitive position every year, your past performance tends to dictate that, Bullock passed his test and came in pretty secure as a starter plus he is kicked fine in practice scrimmage and is perfect in his preseason kicks so really has zero red flags at this point.

[McC]

(08-22-2018, 04:01 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Marvin Lewis stated that Brown will not be kept on PS and decided that the full body of work, including practice results allows him to keep the vet Bullock...

Marvin Lewis w/ more on the K Jon Brown situation today. Pointing out it's "a body of work," insinuating he hasn't been as accurate in practice (which is true in what we've seen). Also, that Brown wouldn't be kept on the practice squad, either. But, "he did a great job."

— Paul Dehner Jr. (@pauldehnerjr) August 22, 2018

So he doesn't kick that well in practice but nails a 55 yarder right down the middle in a game?  Allen Iverson anyone? 

[*psychdoctor*]

(08-22-2018, 06:13 PM)McC Wrote: So he doesn't kick that well in practice but nails a 55 yarder right down the middle in a game?  Allen Iverson anyone?

I do believe that KO are important and Bullock can do a decent job but not great in that department.  I also think that if Bullock regresses toward his mean career average which is possible, then he will be kicking around 82-83%.  Acceptable but not great.  Brown will be available if Bullock chokes and drops below his 82% career average.  I cannot see anyone grabbing him with just 3 NFL kicks under his belt.  
WTS, I just like the flight pattern of Brown's kicks, he kicks deep for KO.  I get nervous when Bullock kicks because of his flight pattern and the spin from the contact point. 

[The Caped Crusader]

I can't wait for Brown to nail a 65 yard game winner in week 1 to remind us about how bad we evaluate kicking talent.

[*psychdoctor*]

(08-22-2018, 06:37 PM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: I can't wait for Brown to nail a 65 yard game winner in week 1 to remind us about how bad we evaluate kicking talent.

It would be a sad moment indeed.  

[Shake n Blake]

(08-21-2018, 06:59 PM)McC Wrote: What XP's has Brown missed?

Face it, Marvin is looking for a permanent kicker and not a stopgap, ala Randy.  He drafted one last year and this Brown endeavor is now into its second year.  My advice to the round one--rent, don't buy.  And, for God sake, man, you are a professional athlete, surrounded by physical specimens, you work in a building loaded with state of the art workout equipment.  Show a little pride and lose the gut.  It's disgusting.

1. I was speaking in general about accuracy issues. According to Marv, he has them.

2. We bring in a young kicker pretty much every year just to fill out the off-season roster. Elliott was brought in to be real competition. Brown was a camp leg.

3. I find it strange that so many care about the kickers stomach. Janikowski was built like some dude you'd see at the local bar, but he was one of the best kickers of all-time. Seriously, who gives a rip what he looks like if he's hitting kicks?

(08-22-2018, 12:16 AM)McC Wrote: Sometimes it is wrong.  Like in this case, for instance.  They put the wrong kind of pressure on him.  Making a crucial kick is a different kind of   pressure than will I have this job or not kind of pressure. 

Every kick is that way for NFL kickers. You miss 2-3 key kicks, suddenly you're out of a job.

(08-22-2018, 07:32 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: Good points, all, Shake.  But I thought I remembered Duke Tobin talking about trying to find the next Justin Tucker.  There was a game where he was making 50-plus yard FGs against us (three, I think) and the Bengals couldn't counter with Nug.  That was only one game, but he was the reason the Ravens won.

I get it...he isn't proven, and distance without accuracy is like my golf drive. But the flight of his ball, and the ease at which he absolutely lauches the thing....Well, I have not seen it before.  

The Raiders used is 1st round pick on a scumbag of a human being in Janikowski because of his leg strength.  The Jets used their first pick (which was a 2nd rounder) on Nugent as he was making really long kicks at OSU.  

I just believe that this guy could evolve in to something special, and I would hate to see that be a team other than the one that gave him a shot. 

Justin Tucker is a rarity. We may as well say we're looking for the next Aaron Rodgers. 

(08-22-2018, 04:01 PM)psychdoctor Wrote: Marvin Lewis stated that Brown will not be kept on PS and decided that the full body of work, including practice results allows him to keep the vet Bullock...

Marvin Lewis w/ more on the K Jon Brown situation today. Pointing out it's "a body of work," insinuating he hasn't been as accurate in practice (which is true in what we've seen). Also, that Brown wouldn't be kept on the practice squad, either. But, "he did a great job."

— Paul Dehner Jr. (@pauldehnerjr) August 22, 2018

Welp.

(08-22-2018, 06:37 PM)the Caped Crusader Wrote: I can't wait for Brown to nail a 65 yard game winner in week 1 to remind us about how bad we evaluate kicking talent.

I'm sure you'll be back in this thread eating crow if the guy isn't on a 53 next month. You're being silly about this. 65 yard game winner? C'mon man...

[McC]

(08-22-2018, 07:56 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 1. I was speaking in general about accuracy issues. According to Marv, he has them.

2. We bring in a young kicker pretty much every year just to fill out the off-season roster. Elliott was brought in to be real competition. Brown was a camp leg.

3. I find it strange that so many care about the kickers stomach. Janikowski was built like some dude you'd see at the local bar, but he was one of the best kickers of all-time. Seriously, who gives a rip what he looks like if he's hitting kicks?


Every kick is that way for NFL kickers. You miss 2-3 key kicks, suddenly you're out of a job.


Justin Tucker is a rarity. We may as well say we're looking for the next Aaron Rodgers. 


Welp.


I'm sure you'll be back in this thread eating crow if the guy isn't on a 53 next month. You're being silly about this. 65 yard game winner? C'mon man...

You will absolutely never find the next Tucker if you stop looking.  And the 55 yarder had at least ten yards to spare.  Randy sends up wobblers, Brown kicks like Carson Palmer threw a football, picture perfect in flight.

[*Nately120*]

(08-22-2018, 07:56 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'm sure you'll be back in this thread eating crow if the guy isn't on a 53 next month. You're being silly about this. 65 yard game winner? C'mon man...

The idea of Randy Bullock being involved in any scenario where anyone is forced to eat crow seems rather laughable...but, I guess stranger things have happened.

[grampahol]

Up until this past week Brown had never once kicked in a live game at any level. He hits a great one, but at this point it's one game in preseason, period. No college kicks and no regular season kicks. Suddenly he's the greatest kicker we'll never have? 
I'm with Marvin on this . Game experience matters. Imagine they try out some outfielder who has a talent for throwing out runners at home plate, decide for some reason to teach him to play QB during practice and because he can throw a few long passes to Ross and hit him in stride in ONE preseason game and cut Andy on a whim. I suspect a few fans would get hard over it, but the overwhelming majority would go apeshit and demand Marvins head on a platter.. 

[Shake n Blake]

(08-22-2018, 10:01 PM)McC Wrote: You will absolutely never find the next Tucker if you stop looking.  And the 55 yarder had at least ten yards to spare.  Randy sends up wobblers, Brown kicks like Carson Palmer threw a football, picture perfect in flight.

The FG's and catches count all the same. So do the "pretty" INTs and missed kicks. 

(08-22-2018, 10:22 PM)Nately120 Wrote: The idea of Randy Bullock being involved in any scenario where anyone is forced to eat crow seems rather laughable...but, I guess stranger things have happened.

The idea of Jon Brown kicking a 65 yard game winner against us was in the post I quoted, and that is what you found laughable? Mmkay.

Anyway, the crow would've had nothing to do with Bullock and everything to do with the LeFevour-like love of John Brown.

[*Nately120*]

(08-23-2018, 04:18 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The idea of Jon Brown kicking a 65 yard game winner against us was in the post I quoted, and that is what you found laughable? Mmkay.

Well, that's unlikely.  But the last kicker we didn't trust to be a Bengal ended up scoring 11 points in the Super Bowl that year, and I sure as shinola wouldn't have had many takers on that bet.  How could it get any crazier than that?

[Shake n Blake]

(08-23-2018, 04:34 PM)Nately120 Wrote: Well, that's unlikely.  But the last kicker we didn't trust to be a Bengal ended up scoring 11 points in the Super Bowl that year, and I sure as shinola wouldn't have had many takers on that bet.  How could it get any crazier than that?

People associating Elliott with Super Bowl is the problem. A kicker isn't leading a team anywhere.

Bullock on that same squad would've had us questioning the decision all the same.

Plus Elliott would've been here attempting 20 total FG's in a lame offense, and we'd have little clue about his range.

[*Nately120*]

(08-23-2018, 04:53 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: People associating Elliott with Super Bowl is the problem. A kicker isn't leading a team anywhere.

Bullock on that same squad would've had us questioning the decision all the same.

Plus Elliott would've been here attempting 20 total FG's in a lame offense, and we'd have little clue about his range.

I'm not saying Bullock was the wrong choice, the guy won the competition, I'm just saying that the guy we don't want to supplant Bullock has, um...historically speaking, done pretty well.

[fredtoast]

(08-23-2018, 05:02 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm not saying Bullock was the wrong choice, the guy won the competition, I'm just saying that the guy we don't want to supplant Bullock has, um...historically speaking, done pretty well.

Elliott missed 2 XPs in just 3 postseason games.

He is a decent kicker, but far from great.

[*Nately120*]

(08-23-2018, 05:10 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Elliott missed 2 XPs in just 3 postseason games.

He is a decent kicker, but far from great.

I'm playing devil's advocate here I'll admit.  The main thing is that Elliot lost the competition so we kept Bullock, therein is the defense.  If Brown wins the competition and we keep Bullock, that's a horse of a different flavor.

[Shake n Blake]

(08-23-2018, 05:02 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm not saying Bullock was the wrong choice, the guy won the competition, I'm just saying that the guy we don't want to supplant Bullock has, um...historically speaking, done pretty well.

We're working totally different angles as usual.

Elliott did turn out to be a good kicker (so far). I've never disputed that. The argument that we made a huge mistake would hold more weight (for me) if Bullock didn't hit 90% of his FG's and 94% of his XP's (both better than Elliott). Right now, the only argument that we made a horrific blunder is (a) Elliott hits long ones and (b) the Eagles won the SB.

Neither of those seems likely if Elliott were a Bengal. Marv is a conservative defense-minded coach, and often takes the field position over long FG's - and we weren't going to the SB with Elliott last year. We only kicked 20 FG's which is awful. The offense was lame. People think Bullock only had one 50 yarder because he can't do it...ignoring that we only kicked 20 total FG's. How many opportunities were really passed because Bullock doesn't have the leg?

I don't even think his leg was a factor at all. He took one from 50 and crushed it, so why not take more? The answer is that we didn't really have many opportunities to even consider it.

[The Caped Crusader]

(08-22-2018, 07:56 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I'm sure you'll be back in this thread eating crow if the guy isn't on a 53 next month. You're being silly about this. 65 yard game winner? C'mon man...

Eating crow? As if I have an investment on the guy being on the team?

If you couldn't tell, I'm guess by your comment, you couldn't. The post was in loose reference to Elliot.

It's a kicker. Sure, he's got a job to do, but as my many coaches say, if we put him in the position to win the game, you're not necessarily doing your job.

So, YOU'RE BEING SILLY.

[Sled21]

(08-23-2018, 05:18 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I'm playing devil's advocate here I'll admit.  The main thing is that Elliot lost the competition so we kept Bullock, therein is the defense.  If Brown wins the competition and we keep Bullock, that's a horse of a different flavor.

But Brown is evidently NOT winning... the coaches say the same thing Dehner says, which is the same thing Brown says.... he struggles with short to mid length kicks because he doesn't have the focus on them like he does the long ones. I may or may not trust Merv to pick a kicker, but I do trust Simmons to know who is better.....

[Shake n Blake]

(08-23-2018, 06:03 PM)The Caped Crusader Wrote: Eating crow? As if I have an investment on the guy being on the team?

If you couldn't tell, I'm guess by your comment, you couldn't. The post was in loose reference to Elliot.

It's a kicker. Sure, he's got a job to do, but as my many coaches say, if we put him in the position to win the game, you're not necessarily doing your job.

So, YOU'RE BEING SILLY.

I understood you clearly.

You were suggesting that one (debatably) better kicker was let go, so Marv etc have no clue about kicking talent.

What I'm saying is that if Brown isn't on any 53 next month, I doubt you'll come back with a different opinion about their eye for kicking talent.

[EatonFan]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSSn3NddwFQ