With Geno And Dunlap Signed, Will We Go For O-Line FAs?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-29-2018, 04:06 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: How much did Moobs sign for? Too bad that he wasn’t on this roster with the new additions.

Don't think it was that much, sure wish he was still here.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-29-2018, 03:49 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Think Sunset is correct as usual, they will wait till cutdown day and maybe sign a reliable vet that gets cut for
financial reasons. MJ sure hasn't shown much at all and is clearly our worst End that is getting paid a lot of
dough for being our worst End. Almost expecting him to get cut next as Sunset says, they sure have done a
great job this Offseason. Almost starting to expect them to do the right thing for once which is crazy.

Sounds like Westerman is in the doghouse and cannot play RG so expecting a Guard if we do pick an O-line
guy up and roll with Hart at RT. Hope he slowly improves under Pollack. He looked much better against the
Bills than he did the Cowboys that is for sure.

Browns just signed Watman for the vet minimum, yesterday.  790K is the vet minimum for 4-6 years experience, not too shabby for riding the pine.

[Shake n Blake]

(08-29-2018, 04:06 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: How much did Moobs sign for? Too bad that he wasn’t on this roster with the new additions.

2 years and $8 million with the Cardinals. Probably would've been a good idea to cut Michael Johnson to keep Andre Smith.

[Tiger Teeth]

(08-29-2018, 05:01 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 2 years and $8 million with the Cardinals. Probably would've been a good idea to cut Michael Johnson to keep Andre Smith.

Yes it would have!

[Sled21]

For those of you waiting for the cut down day after the 4th preseason game for a vet lineman to be released, your timetables are off. Teams that are going to cut vets do it prior to the last game, so that they do not have to pay that salary should the player get injured in the last game. If they aren't cut this week, they won't be.... (vets that is)

[Circleville Guy]

(08-29-2018, 04:14 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Don't think it was that much, sure wish he was still here.

I think that if he were still here that it would almost assure a playoff birth.

[Circleville Guy]

(08-29-2018, 05:01 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: 2 years and $8 million with the Cardinals. Probably would've been a good idea to cut Michael Johnson to keep Andre Smith.

Wow, I’ll bet that Andre will probably start some there too. That’s a decent price for as good as he is.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(08-29-2018, 04:27 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Browns just signed Watman for the vet minimum, yesterday.  790K is the vet minimum for 4-6 years experience, not too shabby for riding the pine.

I think we will bring someone in for sure.

[fredtoast]

(08-29-2018, 05:01 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote:  Probably would've been a good idea to cut Michael Johnson to keep Andre Smith.

Keeping Michael Johnson has zero to do with keeping Dre.

Funny how when a fan base turns against a player he is suddenly the reason for every problem the team has.

[Circleville Guy]

(08-29-2018, 05:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Keeping Michael Johnson has zero to do with keeping Dre.

Funny how when a fan base turns against a player he is suddenly the reason for every problem the team has.

I’d agree with that. I’m guessing that he means that it would have been better to keep Dre than MJ if the money was an issue.

[Shake n Blake]

(08-29-2018, 05:57 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Keeping Michael Johnson has zero to do with keeping Dre.

Funny how when a fan base turns against a player he is suddenly the reason for every problem the team has.

(08-29-2018, 06:17 PM)Circleville Guy Wrote: I’d agree with that. I’m guessing that he means that it would have been better to keep Dre than MJ if the money was an issue.

That's exactly what I was saying. Fred was wayyyyy off.

Seeing how we cut guys like Iloka to make room for Atkins/Dunlap extensions, I'm assuming we're up against the cap or close to it.

[Socal Bengals fan]

Two moves the Bengals should or could have made was to trade for Duane Brown last year knowing our line sucks. He went to Seattle for a cheap draft pick. And another was not getting the Mccarron trade in time. We could have used that pick on a guard or tackle in round 2.

[Millhouse]

(08-29-2018, 09:23 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: That's exactly what I was saying. Fred was wayyyyy off.

Seeing how we cut guys like Iloka to make room for Atkins/Dunlap extensions, I'm assuming we're up against the cap or close to it.

https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/
https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

Still hovering at around $16-17 mil in space per those two sites, for top 51 players currently. However Dunlap's 3 yr/$45 million deal doesnt kick in until next year, as he is due $7 million this season (per link).  Then it will jump to $15 mil next season.

So short term, as in just for this season, they could still sign someone significant if they had to I am assuming. But I am no salary cap guru either.

[Au165]

(08-29-2018, 03:27 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: O lineman will be cut, there's no doubt about it.  The question is are they better than what we have currently? 

We cut George Iloka, Adam Jones and Brandon Lafelle.  A couple of them may be considered "starting caliber" on other teams.  It depends on what the area of need is.  Starting caliber is subjective.  From what I've seen from the right side of our line this year I'd be hard pressed to call any of that starting caliber.  More like it's the best we got for now. 

LaFell is unsigned still with no real interest. Illoka signed a vet minimum deal. If we bring in someone on the O line who is jobless a monthly after cuts or someone for vet minimum I am going to venture to say neither are better than what we currently have. People continue to miss the fact that for the last couple years college football has not been producing startable O linemen. This has led to the current state of NFL O line play (Overall not good) and the lack of any depth for almost all teams. 

[bambino5130]

I don't think they are going to do anything with the O-Line until the 2019 Draft, and like last year they will only grab one guy.

Lets just hope its not another big WIFF.

[Shake n Blake]

(08-29-2018, 10:29 PM)Millhouse Wrote: https://www.spotrac.com/nfl/cap/
https://overthecap.com/salary-cap-space/

Still hovering at around $16-17 mil in space per those two sites, for top 51 players currently. However Dunlap's 3 yr/$45 million deal doesnt kick in until next year, as he is due $7 million this season (per link).  Then it will jump to $15 mil next season.

So short term, as in just for this season, they could still sign someone significant if they had to I am assuming. But I am no salary cap guru either.

So it's not so much that we're up against the cap now, as it is we'll be up against it next year.

So we could've afforded both Andre and Michael Johnson this year, but we would've had to cut one of them next year (or someone else - theoretically).

(08-30-2018, 08:24 AM)Au165 Wrote: LaFell is unsigned still with no real interest. Illoka signed a vet minimum deal. If we bring in someone on the O line who is jobless a monthly after cuts or someone for vet minimum I am going to venture to say neither are better than what we currently have. People continue to miss the fact that for the last couple years college football has not been producing startable O linemen. This has led to the current state of NFL O line play (Overall not good) and the lack of any depth for almost all teams. 

The deals Iloka and Pacman signed isn't the point. The point is that those 2 will likely see significant playing time - if not start. So they were upgrades for those teams. I'm not sure why you're talking like decent players never get cut at this time of year. Anyone who has followed the NFL for awhile knows that sometimes you'll see some decent guys get the axe in August.

It's not always about talent level. Teams often have younger cheaper options and decide to roll with those guys and save some $$$.

And of course Iloka signed a small deal. The timing of his release had a little something to do with that. Had he been available in March, I'd almost guarantee he wouldn't be signing a vet minimum deal. His options and leverage were very limited this close to the season.

It's far from a guarantee that someone of decent quality - at the exact position we need - will hit the market. That said, it can and has happened. We just don't often sign guys off the cut list (maybe this is why some people think there isn't anybody worth looking at?) I gotta say again, it wouldn't take much to upgrade that right side. 

To your last point, I think the recent o-line issues are more related to the NFL's rule changes as far as offseason training and no more 2 a days. Lines are struggling to form cohesion. Obviously many teams are handling that better than we have. 

[I_C_DeadPeople]

With the deal Aaron Donald just signed, Atkins is a bargain

[Au165]

(08-31-2018, 02:30 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: To your last point, I think the recent o-line issues are more related to the NFL's rule changes as far as offseason training and no more 2 a days. Lines are struggling to form cohesion. Obviously many teams are handling that better than we have. 

Look at the last couple drafts, it used to be you'd get 5 Tackles in the first 16 picks, now they are struggling to find one or two top 16 worthy tackles in the draft. The spread offenses of college ask very little of O linemen in comparison to NFL schemes. There are a few colleges you can count on to product NFL level O linemen but not much outside of that. 

[Shake n Blake]

(08-31-2018, 02:33 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: With the deal Aaron Donald just signed, Atkins is a bargain

Geno Atkins – 4 years, 65.3 million ($16.3 m average)

6 Pro Bowls, 2x 1st team All-Pro, 3x 1st team Pro Football Focus
8.8 sacks per 16 games played (since rookie season when he barely played)

Aaron Donald – 6 years, 135 million ($22.5 m average)

4 Pro Bowls, 3x 1st team All-Pro, 4x 1st team Pro Football Focus
10.1 sacks per 16 games played

I know which one I'm choosing.

[Millhouse]

(08-31-2018, 02:30 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: So it's not so much that we're up against the cap now, as it is we'll be up against it next year.

So we could've afforded both Andre and Michael Johnson this year, but we would've had to cut one of them next year (or someone else - theoretically).

As I said, I am no cap guru, just going by those two popular cap space sites.

I happened to read a Hobson article just after the extensions, and he said this in it :

"with deals rocketing the Bengals to No. 7 in cap spending for this season at about $186 million, according to various web sites" https://www.bengals.com/news/that-time-of-year

And that is true, as they are spending this season about $9 million over the the $177 mill season cap. But the current cap space (I am assuming) is from prior seasons carried over.

Another thing though is that the cap limit has been rising quite a bit last few years. 2015 $143 mill, 2016 - $155 mill, 2017 - $167 mill, 2018 - $177 mill. So next year it probably will go up somewhere near $8-12 million more.