Dalton since Lazor took over as OC

[Beaker]

(09-16-2018, 01:30 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: That is a given, but whether we go 6-9 and miss the playoffs or 9-6 and lose the first playoff game, it is the same thing to me.

I prefer to enjoy the journey and celebrate each win. Playoff wins are nice, but not the only joy in supporting a team.

[Luvnit2]

(09-16-2018, 09:02 PM)Beaker Wrote: I prefer to enjoy the journey and celebrate each win. Playoff wins are nice, but not the only joy in supporting a team.

The last 2 years were not fun and not close to making the playoffs and losing. Last year I was done after week #3.

I agree, enjoy the journey. It is like vacation, have fun while you can knowing it will end sooner than you would like.

[Housh]

(09-14-2018, 05:50 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Andy Dalton had his best two seasons in 15 &16 the narrative that it was his fault that we were not a good football team last year is stupid. Our offensive line was clearly the problem and if it wasn't for Andy the team would have been 2-14.

I actually agree and would die with this statement


I just don’t think he’s brought it against elite teams so that’s why I’m against him but last 2 years the Line was so bad i found it IDIOTIC to judge his QB play

It was worthless

How can you judge a guys ball when the opposing D line is in his face half a second after the snap 80% of the plays? Like you’d HAVE to be a troll

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-14-2018, 05:11 PM)BengalChris Wrote: No one could defend last year's start. No one can really defend Dalton's playoff stats either, they are just plain bad (1TD, 6INTs, 4FUMs, 0 wins, 4 losses).

But, it is a team game and it's not just Dalton. Last night Boyd prevented an interception on a bad throw, which helped out Dalton's stat line. The D has put the closing marks on both of these first two games this year.

To Dal toton's credit he has turned his play around from last year's start. Maybe he'll do the same come playoff time this year.

Most of us, self included, wanted Marv gone after last year. But it turned out better that we kept him.

It's really no wonder he's "turned it around". Ken Zampese may very well be the worst OC I've seen in the NFL. Piano Paul was getting in the way as well. You add that to a few totally inept players on the oline, and it's not very hard to see why the offense struggled in 16 and 17.

[XenoMorph]

(09-14-2018, 04:26 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: This is cherry picking to the max.

I am a Dalton supporter and believe we can win a SB with him.  However, I am not a fan of choosing certain time frames to try and promote a player with the stats from those time frames.

no really it just removes any games with zampese as OC

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(09-16-2018, 03:14 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dalton's problem is not his "ceiling".  When he is on he is as better than most QBs in the league.  There are only 4 active QBs with more games with a 125+ rating than Dalton since he entered the league (Rodgers, Brees, Brady, Ryan) and only 6 have had a season with a higher rating than Dalton had in 2015. (Brees, Rodgers, Ryan, Wilson, Brady, Foles).

Dalton's problem is consistency.  A player that can post so many elite performances should nmot lay so many eggs.  Since Dalton entered the league only 5 QBs have more games with a passer rating below 60.

Why he craps the bed in playoffs is a mystery.  He wins big games in the regukar season.  He has beaten Tom Brady, Aaron Rodgers, Russell Wilson, Andrew Luck, and Peyton Manning head-to-head when those QBs had division Championship teams.  It just seems like the entire Bengal team falls flat in the playoffs.

But his inconsistency and playoff bed crapping is his ceiling. A lot of average QB's go on hot streaks - Keenum, Fitzgerald and a few get hot right at the exact moment the team does and they get to or win the SB - Flacco for example. 

[fredtoast]

(09-17-2018, 11:19 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: But his inconsistency and playoff bed crapping is his ceiling. A lot of average QB's go on hot streaks - Keenum, Fitzgerald and a few get hot right at the exact moment the team does and they get to or win the SB - Flacco for example. 

This does not make any sense.  If other inconsistent QBs can "get on a hot streak" then why can't Dalton?

In fact that is the argument I make in favor of Dalton.  Other QBs who have never won playoff games have made it to the Super Bowl.  In Joe Flacco's first 5 playoff games he completed less than 50% of his passes and had 1 td, 6 ints, and a 46.5 passer rating.



BTW Keenum and Fitzgerald are NOT examples of average QBs who took their teams to Super Bowls.

[Luvnit2]

(09-17-2018, 11:19 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote:
But his inconsistency and playoff bed crapping is his ceiling. A lot of average QB's go on hot streaks - Keenum, Fitzgerald and a few get hot right at the exact moment the team does and they get to or win the SB - Flacco for example. 

What was Nick Foles ceiling prior to 2018?

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(09-17-2018, 12:32 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: What was Nick Foles ceiling prior to 2018?

He is an example of a guy who got hot at the right time. No doubt this is part of the Bengals strategy, they have a 'good' QB not a great one and they 'hope' he gets hot around playoff time. So far 0-4 I think but they keep trying...

Foles has looked like crap this year. 

I have never advocated dumping Dalton, i advocated to draft someone (Garrapola, Carr, Watson, Mahomes) who COULD end up having a higher ceiling. It is the toughest spot to fill on the roster, but unless you get lucky (Foles, Flacco) then you should be continually searching for the next great one. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-17-2018, 02:47 AM)Wyche Wrote: It's really no wonder he's "turned it around". Ken Zampese may very well be the worst OC I've seen in the NFL. Piano Paul was getting in the way as well. You add that to a few totally inept players on the oline, and it's not very hard to see why the offense struggled in 16 and 17.

Damn Skippy !

MB took a giant crap on this team during those two seasons ! Zampese never should have returned. They never should have tried to strong arm Whit. MB refused to not play OG and Fisher. Piano Man need canned 4 or 5 years before he was. And on and on.

It's a miracle Dalton did as well as he did all things considered !

[whodey4life84]

(09-15-2018, 06:47 AM)YsCascadia Wrote: For what?  Cherry Picking... no thanks. 

He is cherry picking.  Everyone does it in the NFL. 

They will say things like Since this period to this period this is how awesome this guy was.... just because the time that Fred is using happens to be from when Lazor started to now doesn't stop it from being cherry picking.

The last 16 games are meaningless... it is only the 16 games in a season that matters, and then the post season. 

This thread is an attempt at making it sound like Dalton is a different QB now than he was before.  Dalton is still the same QB, and if Dalton goes on a slump for the next 16 games, then I wonder if Fred will throw up the stats as a whole or just use the most current 16 games?  I think he will just ignore the stats all together.  If we started 0-2 this thread wouldn't have been created.

Also don't try to claim it has anything to do with Lazor, cause if it was Lazor then he would have said the offense as a whole, this is all about hyping up Dalton.

The reason I don't even want to argue is because I like Dalton.  I think he is one of the better QBs in the league and provided that everyone around him performs, can win a SB.  If cherry picking the past 16 games to hype up Dalton is what Fred needs to do to feel better about the Bengals QB then fine, cherry pick all you want. 

To me the stats that matter are:

Comp%     Yrd        TDs    INTs       QBR
62.4%     26,042     173     94        89.1

Other than specific games only, any other stat time frame are just cherry picked to hype a player up or to tear them down.

So I will save my apology for when I am actually wrong.   

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-16-2018, 01:38 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: He is also very streaky, so having a few good games in a row is nothing new to him.

For the record, I do not hate Dalton, I think he was an excellent draft pick for the second round. My issue is I believe he has a ceiling and that ceiling is not enough to win a SB. I do not doubt he has made the most of his abilities and should be commended for that. But if I wanted to win a SB, I would draft a QB high and let them compete. You may set the team back if you choose incorrectly but at least you tried. This team likes the steady approach, not taking chances, comfort over going for it.

It will be interesting when his contract is up because in today's market he is a $20M per year QB if not more so will this team pay him that much? I think they draft a replacement then and get 5 cheap salary years out of that guy.

I want to see what Dalton does with a competent line before i think like this.

If he is the problem and there is no pressure on him than i will think to the future at QB.

There have been a lot worse QB's win a Superbowl. Seeing him looking comfortable out there is a start.

We will see man.

[*bfine32*]

(09-17-2018, 11:47 AM)fredtoast Wrote: This does not make any sense.  If other inconsistent QBs can "get on a hot streak" then why can't Dalton?

In fact that is the argument I make in favor of Dalton.  Other QBs who have never won playoff games have made it to the Super Bowl.  In Joe Flacco's first 5 playoff games he completed less than 50% of his passes and had 1 td, 6 ints, and a 46.5 passer rating.



BTW Keenum and Fitzgerald are NOT examples of average QBs who took their teams to Super Bowls.

That seems really, really hard to do.

[jfkbengals]

(09-15-2018, 06:47 AM)YsCascadia Wrote: For what?  Cherry Picking... no thanks. 

He is cherry picking.  Everyone does it in the NFL. 

They will say things like Since this period to this period this is how awesome this guy was.... just because the time that Fred is using happens to be from when Lazor started to now doesn't stop it from being cherry picking.

The last 16 games are meaningless... it is only the 16 games in a season that matters, and then the post season. 

This thread is an attempt at making it sound like Dalton is a different QB now than he was before.  Dalton is still the same QB, and if Dalton goes on a slump for the next 16 games, then I wonder if Fred will throw up the stats as a whole or just use the most current 16 games?  I think he will just ignore the stats all together.  If we started 0-2 this thread wouldn't have been created.

Also don't try to claim it has anything to do with Lazor, cause if it was Lazor then he would have said the offense as a whole, this is all about hyping up Dalton.

The reason I don't even want to argue is because I like Dalton.  I think he is one of the better QBs in the league and provided that everyone around him performs, can win a SB.  If cherry picking the past 16 games to hype up Dalton is what Fred needs to do to feel better about the Bengals QB then fine, cherry pick all you want. 

To me the stats that matter are:

Comp%     Yrd        TDs    INTs       QBR
62.4%     26,042     173     94        89.1

Other than specific games only, any other stat time frame are just cherry picked to hype a player up or to tear them down.

So I will save my apology for when I am actually wrong.   

So are you happy that he is 9th among active QBs, ahead of several Super Bowl participants and winners (including a 2 time Super Bowl MVP)?

[BengalChris]

(09-17-2018, 02:47 AM)Wyche Wrote: It's really no wonder he's "turned it around". Ken Zampese may very well be the worst OC I've seen in the NFL. Piano Paul was getting in the way as well. You add that to a few totally inept players on the oline, and it's not very hard to see why the offense struggled in 16 and 17.

I'm happy he's playing well. Paul Alexander and his OL selections and running game designs blew chunks all over the field.

I've never routed against Dalton, but there have been times that I've been very disappointed. Thursday night's play was encouraging, and not just Dalton's. The whole team played like they wanted to win. Even when things were going against them they kept their heads in the game. That's some that was missing the last few years.

[Millhouse]

(09-17-2018, 02:47 AM)Wyche Wrote: It's really no wonder he's "turned it around". Ken Zampese may very well be the worst OC I've seen in the NFL. Piano Paul was getting in the way as well. You add that to a few totally inept players on the oline, and it's not very hard to see why the offense struggled in 16 and 17.

Yeah the combination of Zampese, drafting CedO & Fisher, and Paul A. set this team back a couple of years.

Speaking of Paul A., last Friday on the radio was listening to Dave Lapham and couple of others talkin about the game. And he is a big fan Pollack and his way of coaching the lineman. Then basically said we got a guy that teaches to push forward and hit, and sent off to Dallas a guy that teaches to sidestep and backpeddle lol (something to that effect, might be a podcast out there). I always knew Lap did not like Paul A coaching as he would drop very subtle hints over the year, but that was pretty telling now that he is gone.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-17-2018, 09:13 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I'm happy he's playing well. Paul Alexander and his OL selections and running game designs blew chunks all over the field.

I've never routed against Dalton, but there have been times that I've been very disappointed. Thursday night's play was encouraging, and not just Dalton's. The whole team played like they wanted to win. Even when things were going against them they kept their heads in the game. That's some that was missing the last few years.

Brother, that's been missing A LOT during Marv's entire tenure.  I know QB gets most of the blame, but it really is ridiculous the amount 14 gets from the hometown fans.  For the record, I'm not saying that's been your stance at all.  As you noted, for once, with the lights on, the WHOLE DAMN TEAM showed up to play, and play ferociously.  That's very encouraging.  Your QB is not going to play lights out every single time you take the field.  You need to have the rest of the team be able to pick up the slack in those situations.  That has not been the case in Cincinnati.  Hopefully, this is a harbinger of things to come.  

If you'll look at Shake n Blake's signature, you'll see that "Prime Time Andy" hasn't really been a thing since the 2.0 Browns game.  Prime Time Merv has absolutely been a thing though.  Maybe it was shitty assistants this whole time......idk, but something feels different about this team.  Piano Paul's blocking scheme was 10 years outdated too, and very complex according to Lap during the pregame Thursday.

[Tomkat]

For those of you accusing Fred of "cherry-picking..."
Lazor has ONLY been OC for 16 games - Fred is trying to illustrate the effect that Lazor has had on AD.
So... WHAT OTHER GAMES WOULD YOU LIKE FRED TO USE?

Games from when Lazor WASN'T the OC?
Jeez.

[*pally*]

Andy Dalton has now played 16 games under Bill Lazor. In that time frame, only Russell Wilson and Tom Brady have more touchdown passes. He's middle of the pack in passing yards but still. He's available in over 80% of ESPN leagues.

— Matthew Berry (@MatthewBerryTMR) September 18, 2018

[Sweetness]

(09-18-2018, 07:24 PM)pally Wrote:

Andy Dalton has now played 16 games under Bill Lazor. In that time frame, only Russell Wilson and Tom Brady have more touchdown passes. He's middle of the pack in passing yards but still. He's available in over 80% of ESPN leagues.

— Matthew Berry (@MatthewBerryTMR) September 18, 2018

Can you believe Matthew Berry? That cherry picking bastard.