Football Life - Carson Palmer

[sandwedge]

(09-18-2018, 04:31 PM)PAjwPhilly Wrote: It's a QB dominant league.  QBs get all the credit and all the blame in the media and from the fans.

Imagine if your business had 1 guy that was the entire business to the outside world.  What if "Randy" was not only the face of your business but ran 50% of the business operations. And you paid Randy millions of dollars. Oh and you as an owner do nothing crucial to the success of the business. Your workers do everything.  And again, Randy is the face of the business. 

You wouldn't listen to Randy? Really? That makes no sense. Mike Brown is not above anyone, and in fact he is as poor of an owner as these players are with their money.  Don't they make rookies take financial classes (I think I remember a Hard Knocks where Chad Johnson mentioned this).  Mike Brown should take a few lessons... Hell even the Kardashians would elevate Brown.

Mike Brown is above everyone else.

[fredtoast]

(09-18-2018, 04:31 PM)PAjwPhilly Wrote: It's a QB dominant league.  QBs get all the credit and all the blame in the media and from the fans.

Imagine if your business had 1 guy that was the entire business to the outside world.  What if "Randy" was not only the face of your business but ran 50% of the business operations. And you paid Randy millions of dollars. Oh and you as an owner do nothing crucial to the success of the business. Your workers do everything.  And again, Randy is the face of the business. 

You wouldn't listen to Randy? Really? That makes no sense. Mike Brown is not above anyone, and in fact he is as poor of an owner as these players are with their money.  Don't they make rookies take financial classes (I think I remember a Hard Knocks where Chad Johnson mentioned this).  Mike Brown should take a few lessons... Hell even the Kardashians would elevate Brown.

Not really defending Mike Brown, but owners look long term while players look short term.

Since "Randy" is only going to be around a few years he would have no problem mortgaging the future for success while he is here.  And that applies to all businesses not just football.

[GodFather]

(09-19-2018, 08:56 AM)fredtoast Wrote: What do you mean "even Paul"?  Daugherty is a notorious hater.

I mean Paul knows its a shit show and was trying to bring it out of Carson for an article. Read it...

[WeezyBengal]

Just watched this episode.

I have always had a lot of respect for Carson Palmer and this just reiterated everything that I already knew. I think there is even more to this story but Carson seemed to be in a tough spot. I dont blame him for wanting a trade, honestly.

If you work for company that has a terrible work environment and crappy owners then you would probably want to go work for a new company as well.

The whole "he bailed on his teammates" thing is corny. Half the other guys on that team probably wanted out too. Mike Brown has been an awful owner for three decades now. Only now is the narrative starting to change since he has given up a little control.

[fredtoast]

(09-19-2018, 05:05 PM)WeezyBengal Wrote: Just watched this episode.

I have always had a lot of respect for Carson Palmer and this just reiterated everything that I already knew. I think there is even more to this story but Carson seemed to be in a tough spot. I dont blame him for wanting a trade, honestly.

If you work for company that has a terrible work environment and crappy owners then you would probably want to go work for a new company as well.

The whole "he bailed on his teammates" thing is corny. Half the other guys on that team probably wanted out too. Mike Brown has been an awful owner for three decades now. Only now is the narrative starting to change since he has given up a little control.

If he had bailed while on his rookie contract I could give him some credit.  But Mike Brown did not suddenly change after Carson signed a huge new contract with the Bengals.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-19-2018, 05:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If he had bailed while on his rookie contract I could give him some credit.  But Mike Brown did not suddenly change after Carson signed a huge new contract with the Bengals.

He said promises were made. I got the impression that he signed long term (don't forget, that happened in '05 in the middle of all the good stuff) because he felt some things were going to be done, that were never actually done. 

[Catmandude123]

I look at Carson Palmer as the rich kid who comes out to play but when things don't go his way he takes the ball and goes home. Leaving fans and team mates without a QB was a cowardly way to leave. He just signed a new contract and took the guaranteed money and left. IMO it turned out good for the Bengals in the long run.

[WeezyBengal]

(09-19-2018, 05:58 PM)fredtoast Wrote: If he had bailed while on his rookie contract I could give him some credit.  But Mike Brown did not suddenly change after Carson signed a huge new contract with the Bengals.

He said when he signed the contract there was an understanding that there would be changes made. A GM would be hired, an emphasis on winning, a modernized approach to organizational structure. Thats part of the reason why he signed the contract.  

None of those things happened, hence why he was so frustrated. 

Empty promises. I dont blame him for bailing. 

[Hoofhearted]

(09-20-2018, 10:10 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: He said when he signed the contract there was an understanding that there would be changes made. A GM would be hired, an emphasis on winning, a modernized approach to organizational structure. Thats part of the reason why he signed the contract.  

None of those things happened, hence why he was so frustrated. 

Empty promises. I dont blame him for bailing. 

He signed a contract with a team he knew full well how he they did business, said change, they didn't....then he cries wolf? My 11 year old son does the same thing. You don't always get what you want. Sometimes people don't hold up their promises for whatever reason. But you should. He bailed so now he looks like the immature person, even if he had the best intentions. 

[Shake n Blake]

(09-20-2018, 10:10 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: He said when he signed the contract there was an understanding that there would be changes made. A GM would be hired, an emphasis on winning, a modernized approach to organizational structure. Thats part of the reason why he signed the contract.  

None of those things happened, hence why he was so frustrated. 

Empty promises. I dont blame him for bailing. 

(09-20-2018, 10:23 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: He signed a contract with a team he knew full well how he they did business, said change, they didn't....then he cries wolf? My 11 year old son does the same thing. You don't always get what you want. Sometimes people don't hold up their promises for whatever reason. But you should. He bailed so now he looks like the immature person, even if he had the best intentions. 

Meh. Teams bail out of contracts all the time. Do you think they look immature? When Mikey cut Pacman and LaFell, was he being like your 11 year old?

[Hoofhearted]

(09-20-2018, 11:42 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Meh. Teams bail out of contracts all the time. Do you think they look immature? When Mikey cut Pacman and LaFell, was he being like your 11 year old?

Did they go around saying this player wasn't committed to winning, needs to get a better agent and better structure to their careers? It's fine he wanted out. But to cry wolf because they did not do what they've never done is dumb. How about he does his job and let the others do theirs. Or not. But don't commit if they are not. 

[*Nately120*]

(09-19-2018, 08:27 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: I look at Carson Palmer as the rich kid who comes out to play but when things don't go his way he takes the ball and goes home. Leaving fans and team mates without a QB was a cowardly way to leave. He just signed a new contract and took the guaranteed money and left. IMO it turned out good for the Bengals in the long run.

Agreed, in fact I recall seeing Carson Palmer running away while carrying several sacks with dollars signs on them as he cackled manically and twiddled his handlebar mustache.

[Pat5775]

(09-20-2018, 10:23 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: He signed a contract with a team he knew full well how he they did business, said change, they didn't....then he cries wolf? My 11 year old son does the same thing. You don't always get what you want. Sometimes people don't hold up their promises for whatever reason. But you should. He bailed so now he looks like the immature person, even if he had the best intentions. 

Cried wolf? Not sure I see the correlation... 

But anyway, Carson didn't just sign his contract like many seem to believe (not directly pointed at you). Carson waited patiently for over 5 years, suffering through the bad-to-horrific 2006-2008 seasons. The 2009 season seemed to show a promising future for the team (even though they went away from Carsons strengths and became a run-first offense  ). 

But of course, the debacle that was the 2010 season happened and it was time for Mike to put up or shut up. What did Mike do? Extended Marv Lewis after his second 4-win season in three years. He had no intentions on moving on from bratkowski. We all saw the notorious, tense "Press Conference" where Mike essentially said there would be no changes made. That press conference pissed a lot of us fans off. It's no coincidence Carson made his trade demand a few days later IMO. At the time, not many blamed Carson. Initial reactions were livid with Mike and sympathetic for Carson (the immediate success of Dalton and Green made it easy for some to turn on Carson once again... Yknow, after the 2008 offseason comments on USC and Ohio State ). 

I remember exactly how I felt the day we found out Carson was done: sad, angry, let down... All at bengals management. I didn't exactly pity Carson or even wish he'd come back, I was disgusted that management let it get to that point. Bob Trumpy called it the lowest point in franchise history, and put all then blame on Mike Brown. I agreed with Trumpy 100%. 

Time has passed, time can change a lot thoughts and emotions. But not me, I feel the same way. Carsons departure is 100% on Mike Brown. And I won't ever blame Carson for wanting out of that shit show. 

[Shake n Blake]

(09-20-2018, 11:48 AM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Did they go around saying this player wasn't committed to winning, needs to get a better agent and better structure to their careers? It's fine he wanted out. But to cry wolf because they did not do what they've never done is dumb. How about he does his job and let the others do theirs. Or not. But don't commit if they are not. 

I think I get what you're saying, but "cry wolf" isn't the phrase you want. Unless you believe he was lying about the Bengals sucking as an organization back then. Anywho, I'm all about respecting the organization...when that organization has earned the respect. Mike and the Bengals had not. 

Bad businesses are hindered by yes-men. Sometimes it takes a few cold buckets of water to bring about change. As a Bengals fan, I'll always be thankful to those who tried to bring about that change, as I prefer to see my team win. I'm a Bengals fan...not a Mike Brown fan.

Think of it like this. Say a high ranking guy at Enron saw the corruption and decided to bail on the company. Was that guy a "quitter"? Or should he be commended for not sticking it out with a corrupt company?

[Hoofhearted]

(09-20-2018, 12:33 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: I think I get what you're saying, but "cry wolf" isn't the phrase you want. Unless you believe he was lying about the Bengals sucking as an organization back then. Anywho, I'm all about respecting the organization...when that organization has earned the respect. Mike and the Bengals had not. 

Bad businesses are hindered by yes-men. Sometimes it takes a few cold buckets of water to bring about change. As a Bengals fan, I'll always be thankful to those who tried to bring about that change, as I prefer to see my team win. I'm a Bengals fan...not a Mike Brown fan.

Think of it like this. Say a high ranking guy at Enron saw the corruption and decided to bail on the company. Was that guy a "quitter"? Or should he be commended for not sticking it out with a corrupt company?

Yeah, you know what I meant lol. My bad. He could of easily gave them that bucket of cold-water by not signing the contract. He knew full well the history of the team with MB. You don't think if he would of said "**** you" when negotiating they wouldn't of got the message across? 

Bengals may be a team that isn't 100% serious about winning, but they are not chop liver that isn't shit, either. There's has to be some sort of respect, or again, why did he sign that contract? Same with the Enron guy. If he knew the CEO was a *******, why did he go work for him? 

[Hoofhearted]

(09-20-2018, 12:08 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Cried wolf? Not sure I see the correlation... 

But anyway, Carson didn't just sign his contract like many seem to believe (not directly pointed at you). Carson waited patiently for over 5 years, suffering through the bad-to-horrific 2006-2008 seasons. The 2009 season seemed to show a promising future for the team (even though they went away from Carsons strengths and became a run-first offense  ). 

But of course, the debacle that was the 2010 season happened and it was time for Mike to put up or shut up. What did Mike do? Extended Marv Lewis after his second 4-win season in three years. He had no intentions on moving on from bratkowski. We all saw the notorious, tense "Press Conference" where Mike essentially said there would be no changes made. That press conference pissed a lot of us fans off. It's no coincidence Carson made his trade demand a few days later IMO. At the time, not many blamed Carson. Initial reactions were livid with Mike and sympathetic for Carson (the immediate success of Dalton and Green made it easy for some to turn on Carson once again... Yknow, after the 2008 offseason comments on USC and Ohio State ). 

I remember exactly how I felt the day we found out Carson was done: sad, angry, let down... All at bengals management. I didn't exactly pity Carson or even wish he'd come back, I was disgusted that management let it get to that point. Bob Trumpy called it the lowest point in franchise history, and put all then blame on Mike Brown. I agreed with Trumpy 100%. 

Time has passed, time can change a lot thoughts and emotions. But not me, I feel the same way. Carsons departure is 100% on Mike Brown. And I won't ever blame Carson for wanting out of that shit show. 

Yeah, sorry, cry wold doesn't fit. My bad.

That was MB decision and nobody else's. As stated many times over, MB is not a great (or probably even good) owner. It's nothing new. Marv has actually made MB look good. Check winning % before marv and with Marv. It's doubled. But it's not good enough for us fans and a lot of players. Guess what? That's his decision and way he wants to do it. And guess what else? he has every right to do it because he owns the team. I've come to accept that's the way it is. 

I don't blame Carson for wanting out. I actually don't even have any ill feelings toward him like most do. I blame Carson for knowing exactly what he was getting into and trying to play good cop and change a zebras stripes. You're usually going to be disappointed with that.

[fredtoast]

(09-20-2018, 11:42 AM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Meh. Teams bail out of contracts all the time. Do you think they look immature? 

Teams bail on contracts when something changes.

Nothing changed from the time Carson signed his contract until the time he decided to quit.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(09-20-2018, 01:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Nothing changed from the time Carson signed his contract until the time he decided to quit.

But according to the show, they were supposed to.


Also, there's the speculation that Marv has begun to "tear down the wall" as a result of his throwing out the possibility he may leave if he doesn't get some changes.

I've given Marv a lot of hell over the years, and some praise, but this show and what Palmer said in it really changed my perspective on him a little.  He may not be the greatest coach in the world, but without him.....I have ZERO doubt this organization would be the same shit show it was in the 90s.  Son of Paul is a complete buffoon, and Marv has drug him, kicking and screaming, into the 21 century.

[sandwedge]

(09-20-2018, 01:52 PM)Wyche Wrote: But according to the show, they were supposed to.


Also, there's the speculation that Marv has begun to "tear down the wall" as a result of his throwing out the possibility he may leave if he doesn't get some changes.

I've given Marv a lot of hell over the years, and some praise, but this show and what Palmer said in it really changed my perspective on him a little.  He may not be the greatest coach in the world, but without him.....I have ZERO doubt this organization would be the same shit show it was in the 90s.  Son of Paul is a complete buffoon, and Marv has drug him, kicking and screaming, into the 21 century.

If you saw his media day presser this year, it will put things in perspective. He hates, can't stand change. He believes it takes to long to come about. To him if you have a plan you stick with it, maybe tweak it here and there. 

 Correct me if I am wrong, but didn't Wyche clash with Brown back in the day wanting changes and was promptly shown the door?

[*Nately120*]

(09-20-2018, 01:00 PM)Hoofhearted Wrote: Yeah, sorry, cry wold doesn't fit. My bad.

That was MB decision and nobody else's. As stated many times over, MB is not a great (or probably even good) owner. It's nothing new. Marv has actually made MB look good. Check winning % before marv and with Marv. It's doubled. But it's not good enough for us fans and a lot of players. Guess what? That's his decision and way he wants to do it. And guess what else? he has every right to do it because he owns the team. I've come to accept that's the way it is. 

I don't blame Carson for wanting out. I actually don't even have any ill feelings toward him like most do. I blame Carson for knowing exactly what he was getting into and trying to play good cop and change a zebras stripes. You're usually going to be disappointed with that.

Hmm, it would have been interesting if Carson played out his rookie contract here and then stated the Bengals weren't trying to win, so he would elected to go the FA route.  Unless your are suggesting he should have pulled a John Elway or Eli Manning and refused to even play for the Bengals as soon as they drafted him.  The Bengals hadn't had a winning season in the decade plus since MB took over by the time Carson was drafted, and MB had clearly established himself as a lousy GM with no intention of holding himself accountable. Maybe Carson and Marvin Lewis were idiots for even accepting jobs with the Bengals. Ouch.

Either way, it would have been pretty newsworthy. 

EDIT: I can actually see an alternate reality where Carson refused to play for the Bengals as soon as they drafted him and the Chicago Bears sent us Rex Grossman and a handful of picks for him.