Callaway v Ross

[bengals67]

Callaway dropped some balls last night but he looks like he is going to be a handful running deep routes.

For you experts on this board- and I am not one of them- why aren't the Bengals sending Ross on deep routes like Callaway.

I always here about "cover 2" but it seemed to me that the Jets were using two safeties deep last night and it did not matter because of the number of WRs Browns were throwing out there on the same play.

Would appreciate enlightenment from the football coaches/players on this board.

[thillan]

(09-21-2018, 01:16 PM)bengals67 Wrote: Callaway dropped some balls last night but he looks like he is going to be a handful running deep routes.

For you experts on this board- and I am not one of them- why aren't the Bengals sending Ross on deep routes like Callaway.

I always here about "cover 2" but it seemed to me that the Jets were using two safeties deep last night and it did not matter because of the number of WRs Browns were throwing out there on the same play.

Would appreciate enlightenment from the football coaches/players on this board.

They do send him on deep routes, but he's more of a decoy right now.

I know Ross is in his second season, but don't forget - he's basically played 2 games in his career. I really don't think he's been that bad, and it's undeniable that he has opened things up for this offense. 

I'm still taking Ross over Callaway 100% right now. I haven't seen Callaway do anything that Ross can't.

Edit: I also want to say that I think Callaway's speed is surprising defenses right now. But John's ENTIRE storyline was his 40. So of course, every time he's on the field, the defense is terrified of getting burned. Callaway's storyline was more about him being a good receiver with loads of potential, but very poor judgment off the field.

[XenoMorph]

(09-21-2018, 01:16 PM)bengals67 Wrote: Callaway dropped some balls last night but he looks like he is going to be a handful running deep routes.

For you experts on this board- and I am not one of them- why aren't the Bengals sending Ross on deep routes like Callaway.

I always here about "cover 2" but it seemed to me that the Jets were using two safeties deep last night and it did not matter because of the number of WRs Browns were throwing out there on the same play.

Would appreciate enlightenment from the football coaches/players on this board.

well to beat the ravens DL we focused on quick passes.

[Bengalitis]

Ross could end up being the Akili Smith of Wide Receivers. High Draft, low productivity. Yes, technically 1st year, 2 games but... his poor routes and difficulty of learning the playbook last year and dropsies and dislike by Marvin...(yes, he had an injury) not looking too good. I expected him to have 5 TDs by now and make many clutch plays. WE have a great OL, great QB and a great RB to open his potential. Boyd seems like he should have been the 1st RD WR. If we take AJ out of the equation, would you feel Ross could lead the team as the #1 WR... no. oh yeah, Callaway, hmm.. don't know anything about him. I did hear some of the game last night by radio and I did hear his name often.

[*Go Cards*]

Think Marvin will try and get Ross going this week with more targets.

Hopefully it does not cut too much into a sure handed Boyd's targets though.

But need to get Ross going too.

[*Go Cards*]

Especially while Mixon is out

[*bengalfan74*]

I haven't seen enough of Callaway to comment on what he is or isn't.

As for Ross for all intents and purposes this is his rookie season. I'm not really concerned about his progress, yet. Now if we get to game 10 and he still only has 5 receptions or something then I'll start getting concerned. He has a lot of good receivers in front of him and it's going to take some time to get his sea legs under him.

He'll start picking it up over the next several games, I hope.

[motoarch]

We scored 34 points each game to start the season so why question the method?


Edit: Maybe it’s a fair question and it would be nice to see him get some more receptions. But man the offense is producing right now so somethings working.

[3wt]

I'm very concerned about Ross' drops.  There are just too many of them.

I like that they can use him as a decoy, but it won't last very long unless he starts consistently catching the ball.

[Au165]

(09-21-2018, 01:16 PM)bengals67 Wrote: Callaway dropped some balls last night but he looks like he is going to be a handful running deep routes.

For you experts on this board- and I am not one of them- why aren't the Bengals sending Ross on deep routes like Callaway.

I always here about "cover 2" but it seemed to me that the Jets were using two safeties deep last night and it did not matter because of the number of WRs Browns were throwing out there on the same play.

Would appreciate enlightenment from the football coaches/players on this board.

He has 4.4 speed, but part of him running freely was based on the defenses he was seeing. Add in the fact that the corners aren't sub 4.4 guys and it created issues for them. They needed to jam him and squeeze him to the sideline because his route running still needs work. 

Ross is being sent deep, however he is seeing a decent amount of off and 2 high looks. It is controlling the sidelines though and opening up the middle a bit.

They weren't. They were running a lot of cover 3 and man (especially single high man to allow for blitzing). Adams the safety was playing in the box most the night in fact. It wasn't until later in the game did the fall back into a 2 high shell. The under thrown deep ball was man to man and so was the sideline deep ball he dropped. Now there was one play he ran free and didn't get targeted that was a two high look, but Landry was in the slot and the safety was cheating inside on Landry leaving Callaway to run free past his man. 

[bengals67]

(09-21-2018, 02:30 PM)motoarch Wrote: We scored 34 points each game to start the season so why question the method?


Edit: Maybe it’s a fair question and it would be nice to see him get some more receptions.  But man the offense is producing right now so somethings working.

I wasn't criticizing our strategy.

I watched the Browns game against the Saints and last night against the Jets.

Callaway looks unplayable in 1v1 situations. He blows by the DB. He had 11 targets last night and dropped a couple of passes and did not come back for the ball on a couple of passes.  Taylor badly underthrew a pass on a bomb where Callaway had his man beat by 5 yards.

He is going to be a serious threat with Mayfield under center and teams needing to cover Landry.

Except for the pre-season play against the Bills, I have not seen Ross embarrass a DB on a long pass  like Callaway last night and against the Saints.

[bengals67]

(09-21-2018, 03:02 PM)Au165 Wrote: He has 4.4 speed, but part of him running freely was based on the defenses he was seeing. Add in the fact that the corners aren't sub 4.4 guys and it created issues for them. They needed to jam him and squeeze him to the sideline because his route running still needs work. 

Ross is being sent deep, however he is seeing a decent amount of off and 2 high looks. It is controlling the sidelines though and opening up the middle a bit.

They weren't. They were running a lot of cover 3 and man (especially single high man to allow for blitzing). Adams the safety was playing in the box most the night in fact. It wasn't until later in the game did the fall back into a 2 high shell. The under thrown deep ball was man to man and so was the sideline deep ball he dropped. Now there was one play he ran free and didn't get targeted that was a two high look, but Landry was in the slot and the safety was cheating inside on Landry leaving Callaway to run free past his man. 

This is really insightful. Thanks!

[Au165]

(09-21-2018, 04:41 PM)bengals67 Wrote: This is really insightful. Thanks!

No, problem.

[*rfaulk34*]

AJ and Boyd are primary targets ahead of Ross right now. Mixon and Eifert are probably higher on Andy's "look" list than Ross is right now. 

He'll get his chance and when he makes a couple splashes, Dalton will start looking his way more. 

QBs know who gets open, who hangs on to the ball and who makes plays when the ball is in their hand and that plays a part in who they go to in games.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-21-2018, 05:03 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: AJ and Boyd are primary targets ahead of Ross right now. Mixon and Eifert are probably higher on Andy's "look" list than Ross is right now. 

He'll get his chance and when he makes a couple splashes, Dalton will start looking his way more. 

QBs know who gets open, who hangs on to the ball and who makes plays when the ball is in their hand and that plays a part in who they go to in games.

Yes, it will take time to not only gain his own confidence but Dalton's as well.

Once he does we probably won't be making this comparison. But who knows, maybe Callaway is the real deal...

I do know we have played different teams than the Stains and you have to adjust to the teams you play Offensively
to what they are doing Defensively. Ross has opened up the Offense whether he gets catches or not. Would be dumb
not to run a lot of high 2 looks against Ross, you play up on him and he gets by you he is gone.

[sandwedge]

(09-21-2018, 05:03 PM)rfaulk34 Wrote: AJ and Boyd are primary targets ahead of Ross right now. Mixon and Eifert are probably higher on Andy's "look" list than Ross is right now. 

He'll get his chance and when he makes a couple splashes, Dalton will start looking his way more. 

QBs know who gets open, who hangs on to the ball and who makes plays when the ball is in their hand and that plays a part in who they go to in games.

Not saying your wrong, but I have to wonder when QBs scan the field do they think, that's John Ross, skip!  I know there are plays they run, that open up certain areas of the field and they try to get someone in there, whether it be Boyd or a TE. 

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-21-2018, 05:29 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Not saying your wrong, but I have to wonder when QBs scan the field do they think, that's John Ross, skip!  I know there are plays they run, that open up certain areas of the field and they try to get someone in there, whether it be Boyd or a TE. 

I remember during a MNF game last season I think. A receiver had showed up his QB on the field I forget who ? And the other commentators were asking Steve Young about it. Young said I guarantee you had that been me that receiver would have been starting a long dry spell. Different circumstances I know but yes they know.

It's not something that happens over night but as the drops, wrong routes, wrong reads, and so on add up yes they don't trust them anymore and stop targeting them - a lot.

[impactplaya]

Calloway was a potential 1st rd pick his junior yr.
the guy can just blow past you.hes a 2.0 version of Mike Wallace in his prime.
I think Calloway played against better competition at Florida thsn Ross did at Washington.
Ross will get more targets as the season goes on.but it would not hurt to get him the ball early
something to get his confidence up

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-21-2018, 05:29 PM)sandwedge Wrote: Not saying your wrong, but I have to wonder when QBs scan the field do they think, that's John Ross, skip!  I know there are plays they run, that open up certain areas of the field and they try to get someone in there, whether it be Boyd or a TE. 

QBs know which receiver is where.

[*Nately120*]

(09-21-2018, 01:19 PM)thillan Wrote: I know Ross is in his second season, but don't forget - he's basically played 2 games in his career. I really don't think he's been that bad, and it's undeniable that he has opened things up for this offense. 

I get that, but the fact that Ross is a top 10 pick that we are still treating like a brand new and naive rookie who just fell into our laps can be considered a strike against Ross.  It's possible we are spoiled by the fact that AJ Green was so good right off the bat, and Chad was a 2nd round pick, and so on, though.

Hopefully Ross gets involved enough this season that we aren't calling him "basically a rookie" in 2019.