Chris Carter Over Margus Hunt

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-30-2015, 04:38 PM)Stormborn Wrote: Which was kinda BT's thing, get off the line quick and penetrate. I still think he'll make it but even this deep in the preseason I can't quite get a grasp on whose making it. 

Kinda get the feeling both Still and Hunt make it, or they're just giving them every chance because they're not sure on either.

Neither should make it on play. If they do it's for draft status. 


Sims, Hardison and Williams have been the non-Geno stand outs. Everyone else has been bad. 

In an ideal world, we cut Peko, Thompson and Still. 
Geno and Sims get base reps. 
Then you can have Hardison, Williams, Gilberry and Johnson getting reps in subpackages. 

[Stormborn]

(08-30-2015, 04:42 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Neither should make it on play. If they do it's for draft status. 


Sims, Hardison and Williams have been the non-Geno stand outs. Everyone else has been bad. 

In an ideal world, we cut Peko, Thompson and Still. 
Geno and Sims get base reps. 
Then you can have Hardison, Williams, Gilberry and Johnson getting reps in subpackages. 

One can dream, incompetent players will always make it for other reasons more meaningful than their actual job description.

Johnson in sub packages? 

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-30-2015, 04:46 PM)Stormborn Wrote: One can dream, incompetent players will always make it for other reasons more meaningful than their actual job description.

Johnson in sub packages? 

Yeah, kicked inside to DT. Like we do with Gilberry then have Carter on the edge. 

[Stormborn]

(08-30-2015, 04:52 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Yeah, kicked inside to DT. Like we do with Gilberry then have Carter on the edge. 

Ah, been a while since I've actually seen him play. Never really pictured him having success inside, don't remember using him that way back when.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-30-2015, 04:56 PM)Stormborn Wrote: Ah, been a while since I've actually seen him play. Never really pictured him having success inside, don't remember using him that way back when.

Pretty sure we did it occasionally but when we had MJ we almost always had guys like Frostee and Fanene who'd take those reps. 
Not saying he should do it a lot, just occasionally 

[Stormborn]

(08-30-2015, 04:57 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Pretty sure we did it occasionally but when we had MJ we almost always had guys like Frostee and Fanene who'd take those reps. 
Not saying he should do it a lot, just occasionally 

Right, there wasn't really someone who could spell him at RE as a pass rush specialist, Carter gives slight hope.

Gilberry and Hardison are basically newer versions of those two, and slightly better.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-30-2015, 05:01 PM)Stormborn Wrote: Right, there wasn't really someone who could spell him at RE as a pass rush specialist, Carter gives slight hope.

Gilberry and Hardison are basically newer versions of those two, and slightly better.

Yep. And with the emergence of D Williams, the reasons for keeping guys like Still and Thompson are almost nonexistent 

[Whatever]

(08-30-2015, 01:57 PM)jj22 Wrote: Carter is in a battle with Flowers for the final LB spot. Frankly I'd sacrifice Lamur to keep both of them. Hunt is on the outs only if they keep Williams. Assuming they keep Sims. You never have enough pass rushers, but it does feel like the Hunt experiment has run it's course.

That's how I see it, honestly. Carter isn't an every down player at this point, but we were so bad at getting to the QB last year, that we have to keep him, imo. He can also take some snaps at DE, which is also a plus. I think we have to keep him over Flowers, as Carter can take snaps situationally, whereas Flowers would be the last man off the bench.

Where Carter impacts Hunt, IMO, is the battle for the final DL spot. The fact that both Carter and Hardison can play some at DE makes the Bengals carrying a 5th DE less appealing. With Williams and Sims playing well at DT and Atkins, Peko, Thompson, and Hardison locks for roster, keeping Sims or Williams with the final spot makes a lot more sense. Also, if the Bengals decide to only keep 5 WR's to keep an extra DL, he still may not be out of the woods.

[SunsetBengal]

(08-30-2015, 05:11 PM)Whatever Wrote: That's how I see it, honestly.  Carter isn't an every down player at this point, but we were so bad at getting to the QB last year, that we have to keep him, imo.  He can also take some snaps at DE, which is also a plus.  I think we have to keep him over Flowers, as Carter can take snaps situationally, whereas Flowers would be the last man off the bench.  

Where Carter impacts Hunt, IMO, is the battle for the final DL spot.  The fact that both Carter and Hardison can play some at DE makes the Bengals carrying a 5th DE less appealing.  With Williams and Sims playing well at DT and Atkins, Peko, Thompson, and Hardison locks for roster, keeping Sims or Williams with the final spot makes a lot more sense.  Also, if the Bengals decide to only keep 5 WR's to keep an extra DL, he still may not be out of the woods.

I wouldn't be so sure about Thompson being a "lock" to make the roster. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-30-2015, 02:23 PM)Joe Pong Wrote: Our entire roster is nothing but guys who are better suited to play LDE. They're a bunch of 280 lb guys who can even play at DT in some situations. What they lack is a true speed rushing RDE. It's been one of the biggest issues this defense has had over the years. We seem to avoid those guys and not value them very much.

Some teams have two of them. Suggs and Dumervil. Von Miller and Demarcus Ware, etc.

While I agree with your assessment about a speed RDE, I disagree with so many others that can play LDE.  That individual has to be able to set the edge while still being able to create pressure.  I don't see a ton of options there except for Hunt and Dunlap. 

The speed RDE is what I am hoping they get out of Carter.  I love the way the guy uses his hands and pursues. 

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-30-2015, 03:08 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Facts suck. 

Source?  And did you watch him as I did or just look at a stat line?  I'm telling you, he was playing very well.  I guess we will see who is right when the rosters are released.

And just what was the stat line on the rest of the defensive players up front?

[SunsetBengal]

(08-30-2015, 05:36 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: While I agree with your assessment about a speed RDE, I disagree with so many others that can play LDE.  That individual has to be able to set the edge while still being able to create pressure.  I don't see a ton of options there except for Hunt and Dunlap. 

The speed RDE is what I am hoping they get out of Carter.  I love the way the guy uses his hands and pursues. 

Well, until we have a NT that will command a DT on every play, a true speed rusher at RDE is going to be somewhat handicapped.

[Stormborn]

(08-30-2015, 05:38 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: Source?  And did you watch him as I did or just look at a stat line?  I'm telling you, he was playing very well.  I guess we will see who is right when the rosters are released.

And just what was the stat line on the rest of the defensive players up front?

Like I said, if you watched, you would've saw both times, he ran up a gap caused by oline miscommunication and he just use brute force against a scrub, like he always does.

Just because he made the roster in no way means he deserves to have a spot. I believe he'll be on the 53, doesn't mean because he's any good.

[phil413]

(08-30-2015, 12:20 PM)Lqhybrid25 Wrote: I know Carter is a Tweener, but in the end of the day the kid has played better than Hunt at DE.

I think Carter gives them flexibility at SAM back as well. I think they should keep him over Hunt at DE.

Anyone else?

I don't know that Carter really is a tweener.  Only the coaches really know if he can somewhat cover a TE/back or make the proper reads as a 4-3SLB.  If he can, then of coarse you keep him as the last LB and play him mostly as a specialist. 

From what I see, Carter is a pure speed rusher on passing downs only.  Some of us may be holding out for Hunt to finally put it together, I feel like I have a bias at this point, sadly based off the way he looked like Reggie White throwing Korey Stringer into Warren Moon....but Hunt's was vs a backup Colts tackle.  Realistically, the pass rush was so lacking that you want what Carter offers no matter if it's one specific trait. 

[nkywestside]

(08-30-2015, 04:52 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Yeah, kicked inside to DT. Like we do with Gilberry then have Carter on the edge. 

Which has me wondering since Carter is basically running with the ones..
What happens when Johnson gets back?  For me, I want Carter on the field 
in almost all passing situations.  But he's been playing Johnson's spot for the 
most part.  I just hope his reps don't come crashing down when Johnson gets
back. 

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-30-2015, 08:16 PM)nkywestside Wrote: Which has me wondering since Carter is basically running with the ones..
What happens when Johnson gets back?  For me, I want Carter on the field 
in almost all passing situations.  But he's been playing Johnson's spot for the 
most part.  I just hope his reps don't come crashing down when Johnson gets
back. 

They will in the regular season. He'll be a specialty package guy. It won't be a bad thing. He could rack up 6+ sacks like that

[Derrick]

(08-30-2015, 01:47 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Yes. 
He's 28. How many players play beyond their 30s at a high level?
How many can learn whole new skill sets into their 30s? 

Not many- especially those who started playing organized football at age 8 and played continuously thereafter. Hunt may, or may not, make the 53, but he is still young in football years.

[*SHRacerX*]

(08-30-2015, 05:48 PM)Stormborn Wrote:

Like I said, if you watched, you would've saw both times, he ran up a gap caused by oline miscommunication and he just use brute force against a scrub, like he always does.

Just because he made the roster in no way means he deserves to have a spot. I believe he'll be on the 53, doesn't mean because he's any good.

So, in 9 fewer pash rush snaps from the left side, Hunt has the same number of sacks, two fewer hurries, and one less hit on QB than Dunlap.  No one else has done much from the left side. 

Remember, a right handed QB will see the pressure coming from the left side.  I don't understand why everyone is saying Hunt hasn't played well. 

[Stormborn]

(08-30-2015, 11:18 PM)SHRacerX Wrote: So, in 9 fewer pash rush snaps from the left side, Hunt has the same number of sacks, two fewer hurries, and one less hit on QB than Dunlap.  No one else has done much from the left side. 

Remember, a right handed QB will see the pressure coming from the left side.  I don't understand why everyone is saying Hunt hasn't played well. 

Because you simply don't understand the game, and your bias of Hunt is making it difficult for you to understand better.

There is context to these stats, in what manner did they transpire, against whom were they accumulated.

He was ineffective the entire time he was in there and the only time he showed up on the stat sheet was the usual "I can only go through you because I'm stronger than your backup ass!" He displayed zero technique that would help him against a competent player, and more importantly looks the same as he has the last 2 years

He's always been a preseason guy because he's in there's situations and people like you think it's him progressing as a player when it's the same old story that will inevitably translate to the same ineffectiveness when it counts.

People are excited about Carter because he's getting his numbers productively, he's bending around the  edge, he's fighting off blocks, he's actually using football awareness, which is a foreign concept to Hunt.

The only thing to be excited about Hunt is that he may just finally block a field goal this year, expecting anything more is fanatical.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(08-30-2015, 10:59 PM)Derrick Wrote: Not many- especially those who started playing organized football at age 8 and played continuously thereafter. Hunt may, or may not, make the 53, but he is still young in football years.

Football years is bogus. The only position with "football years" is RB.
Hunt is just creeping up on 30 with no real improvement.
Human bodies wear down over time. Hunt wasn't picking daisies in Estonia before coming here. He was power lifting and doing track and field. All exert pressure on joints and the back. Maybe not as bad as football, but he has wear and tear.