Did we get rid of the wrong penalty machine?

[Sweetness]

(09-25-2018, 09:57 AM)jungle93 Wrote: There certainly does seem to be ref bias against players and teams.  In the Steelers v Bucs game last night, for example, there was a late hit, helmet-to-helmet on Fitzpatrick very similar to the one where Williams was ejected.  There was a flag, but not even a peep about an ejection.  Maybe Kirkpatrick isn't as important as Luck to the league?  These types of calls seem way too arbitrary...  

I agree and saw the same thing. Only thing I can guess is at least in the Steelers players case Fitzpatrick wasnt already tackled by another player. He most definitely lowered his helmet into Fitzpatrick though. I blame the media and announcers just as much for their not being more talk about it.

In defense of the refs outside of that play, they were definitely not afraid to throw the flag on the Steelers and haven't been all year so I dont think people can really use that excuse. 

Also, the Bucs got away with this and it's the greatest thing I've ever seen. https://mobile.twitter.com/PeteBlackburn/status/1044428796525506560/photo/1

[BengalsBong]

(09-24-2018, 09:07 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Exactly!  When 10 other guys played their asses off, in an effort to get the "out", you shouldn't have to worry about one of your veterans repeatedly making jack-ass penalties.

10 other guys huh I guess you missed Nickerson getting trucked over all day long. 

[fortyyearfan]

(09-24-2018, 08:51 PM)thillan Wrote: Nope, completely agree with you. Williams is one of the few guys in the team who we have to worry about handing free yards to opposing offenses thanks to stupid, unnecessary penalties.

The panthers offensive line was holding the whole game and the stinkin refs never called it. the refs in nfl do not like cincy and it is costing us games.I am a believer that the nfl refs are going to keep us out of the playoffs.Had some of the refs that saw this would just make the call,we could have easily stopped them at least four times.Go watch the film and our guys on D should be going to the refs and to ass hole marving and complaining.Of course he would NEVER do anything about it. He sucks as the general of this team.I for one want his ass gone right now.He is NO leader of men.He will not fight for his guys and when tez comes back,he will not last the first game and will be e-jected,I hate these new rules.It makes the game stink.The Panthers were holding all game and when the refs do not call it they will just keep doing it.We were in that game in spite of all the shit we had to deal with and I want john ross GONE.

[BengalChris]

(09-23-2018, 04:18 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: What is that now, 3 big penalties on the day for Shawn Williams?

I watched part the Squeelers game last night down here in Tampa and I have to say that the league is turning into the National Fairy League with these ridiculous roughing calls. I couldn't watch the game after a ticky-tack penalty that was really just the defender trying to swat at the ball.

What was a good play just year is now a personal foul. If I were Burfict, I'd take my money and retire. 

[SunsetBengal]

(09-25-2018, 10:52 AM)BengalsBong Wrote: 10 other guys huh I guess you missed Nickerson getting trucked over all day long. 

Nickerson is young, and was being asked to fill a role that he's not optimally built for.  Is that Hardy's fault that Burfict and Brown were unable to play?  Hardy played well in the first two games.  I'm not about to hold Sunday against him, when he was only trying his best to do what was asked of him.

[leonardfan40]

(09-24-2018, 10:02 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: And then he smacked the ball out of the receiver's hand in front of the official, which is going to generate a penalty EVERY time.  He had the choice to not retaliate, but chose not to and hurt his team in doing so.

This^^^

The penalty wasn’t bs and would have been called by any ref. Sure it could have been offsetting penalties but a veteran should be smart enough not to retaliate. Everyone knows that 9 times out of 10 they only see the retaliation. Williams got schooled by a rookie.

[*wildcats forever*]

(09-25-2018, 02:24 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Nickerson is young, and was being asked to fill a role that he's not optimally built for.  Is that Hardy's fault that Burfict and Brown were unable to play?  Hardy played well in the first two games.  I'm not about to hold Sunday against him, when he was only trying his best to do what was asked of him.

You're on to something here, and I don't think it's limited to just Hardy. The quality of our 2nd stringers in (at least) some of our position groups don't seem to be as effective as other team's backups. 

[leonardfan40]

(09-25-2018, 10:03 AM)Sweetness Wrote: I agree and saw the same thing. Only thing I can guess is at least in the Steelers players case Fitzpatrick wasnt already tackled by another player. He most definitely lowered his helmet into Fitzpatrick though. I blame the media and announcers just as much for their not being more talk about it.

In defense of the refs outside of that play, they were definitely not afraid to throw the flag on the Steelers and haven't been all year so I dont think people can really use that excuse. 

Also, the Bucs got away with this and it's the greatest thing I've ever seen. https://mobile.twitter.com/PeteBlackburn/status/1044428796525506560/photo/1

Thanks for the amazing link!!!!

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(09-25-2018, 11:20 AM)fortyyearfan Wrote: The panthers offensive line was holding the whole game and the stinkin refs never called it.

I share your frustration completely but I think Bengaldom needs to understand the definition of “holding” has changed over the decades. What was always called in, say, 1988 does not get called in 2018. Here’s why:

First of all, if holding protects a franchise quarterback, it’s not called. The referees allow it. The only time holding will be called on a pass play is if the offensive player tackles the defensive player to the ground.

Holding is not called on running plays against the middle of the line unless, again, a defensive player is tackled to the ground. However, if holding occurs by either offensive tackle, it’s nearly always called.

Forty years ago, holding was called if the blocker got his hands outside the defensive player’s shoulders or there was blatant grabbing of the pads in front of the chest. Now the chest part of the pads can be grabbed without penalty. As long as the offensive player appears to be pushing instead of pulling, it’s not holding.

[BengalsBong]

(09-25-2018, 02:24 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Nickerson is young, and was being asked to fill a role that he's not optimally built for.  Is that Hardy's fault that Burfict and Brown were unable to play?  Hardy played well in the first two games.  I'm not about to hold Sunday against him, when he was only trying his best to do what was asked of him.

Lets hope Haslett and the rest of our coaches are not as forgiving as you or he will continue to get run over. Vigil had the same issue and he fixed it Nickerson will need to address the problem as well. No matter what LB spot you are asked to play you still need to knock the guy backwards or at the very least stand him up for no more gain. 

P.S. This issue of giving up 200 plus yards rushing was not just Nickersons fault as losing was not just Shawns fault. 11 guys on that field they all played a part in that loss on both sides of the ball.

[*rfaulk34*]

(09-25-2018, 02:38 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: I share your frustration completely but I think Bengaldom needs to understand the definition of “holding” has changed over the decades.  What was always called in, say, 1988 does not get called in 2018.  Here’s why:

First of all, if holding protects a franchise quarterback, it’s not called.  The referees allow it.  The only time holding will be called on a pass play is if the offensive player tackles the defensive player to the ground.

Holding is not called on running plays against the middle of the line unless, again, a defensive player is tackled to the ground.  However, if holding occurs by either offensive tackle, it’s nearly always called.

Forty years ago, holding was called if the blocker got his hands outside the defensive player’s shoulders or there was blatant grabbing of the pads in front of the chest.  Now the chest part of the pads can be grabbed without penalty.  As long as the offensive player appears to be pushing instead of pulling, it’s not holding.

Offensive linemen are allowed to "hold" a defender as long as he doesn't impede his progress toward the QB or ball carrier. They can hold until the defender starts to pull away, then they have to let go. 

Teams that "get away" with holding--as fans like to put it--are good because they're able to keep defenders in front of them and not allow them to try and disengage. That's exactly what the steelers do. 

With that said, there are times a flag isn't thrown when it should be and it has nothing to do with bias, it's just missed by the refs. If there was a ref for every offensive lineman, more holds would be called. Fans have the benefit of a much better angle to view from.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

Shawn has one good game and then does this. Needs to get these penalties out of his game no doubt.

One player can hurt an entire Defense with this shit.

[SunsetBengal]

(09-26-2018, 05:12 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Shawn has one good game and then does this. Needs to get these penalties out of his game no doubt.

One player can hurt an entire Defense with this shit.

I can deal with a DPI, or even an unnecessary roughness if he's trying to separate a receiver from the ball.  Those are penalties from hard play, just trying to do his job to the max of his abilities.  But the petty, childish shit has got to go.  You can't allow yourself to get baited into a shoving match, or knocking a ball out of someone's hands after the whistle.  Those type of things are just completely counterproductive, actually kind of telling of his inner doubts of his own abilities.

Coach Austin was supposed to be some sort of Guru, when it comes to players in the secondary.  He needs to start preaching some wisdom to these cats, and fast..

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(09-26-2018, 07:52 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I can deal with a DPI, or even an unnecessary roughness if he's trying to separate a receiver from the ball.  Those are penalties from hard play, just trying to do his job to the max of his abilities.  But the petty, childish shit has got to go.  You can't allow yourself to get baited into a shoving match, or knocking a ball out of someone's hands after the whistle.  Those type of things are just completely counterproductive, actually kind of telling of his inner doubts of his own abilities.

Coach Austin was supposed to be some sort of Guru, when it comes to players in the secondary.  He needs to start preaching some wisdom to these cats, and fast..

Definately agree Sunset, this and the run Defense needs to be addressed this week. Needless penalties are what has
held the Raiders back forever. Cannot help defeat your own team, if we are on the bad end of a bad call, it isn't on the
player but the refs. This stuff has to stop.

[SunsetBengal]

(09-26-2018, 08:22 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: Definately agree Sunset, this and the run Defense needs to be addressed this week. Needless penalties are what has
held the Raiders back forever. Cannot help defeat your own team, if we are on the bad end of a bad call, it isn't on the
player but the refs. This stuff has to stop.

What's worse is when those penalties happen on 3rd down, after the rest of the crew worked their asses off, to get the out.

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-26-2018, 07:52 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I can deal with a DPI, or even an unnecessary roughness if he's trying to separate a receiver from the ball.  Those are penalties from hard play, just trying to do his job to the max of his abilities.  But the petty, childish shit has got to go.  You can't allow yourself to get baited into a shoving match, or knocking a ball out of someone's hands after the whistle.  Those type of things are just completely counterproductive, actually kind of telling of his inner doubts of his own abilities.

Coach Austin was supposed to be some sort of Guru, when it comes to players in the secondary.  He needs to start preaching some wisdom to these cats, and fast..

Agreed.

I can deal with the vast majority of penalties between the whistles. The little hissy fit stuff after the play is over just burns me up. You think the Steelers haven't noticed Williams is developing a quick trigger ?

The one penalty that infuriates me on the defense during live play is the defensive holding on LBers/DB's. It's 3rd and 25 and a LBer gets called for holding on a TE running a 5 yard crossing route. We sacked the QB but it doesn't matter because it's now 1st down ! Understand the down and distance and that the guy running a 5 yard route on 3rd and 25 isn't going to hurt you most likely.