Will Tomlin Cave?

[bengalguy71]

Will Tomlin give into Bell when he comes back and play him at RB, letting the players rule, ... OR ... will he put him on special teams or just list him ineligible each week, like most of the 'old school coaches' would do?

[George Cantstandya]

A lot of rumors are Steelers are shopping him. Latest news they want a 2nd round pick plus a "good player" whatever that means. My guess someone that can play defense. There were some rumors that Streelers were interested in Earl Thomas from Seattle but he got carted off the field today so that's probably out. Of course LB has to sign his tender and thus agree to any trade. Last I read Eagles and a few other teams were showing some interest but no real offer yet. So I don't think they cave at this point. Of course that could change quickly if the Steelers continue to struggle.

[*Go Cards*]

If he comes back expect they will run them wheels until there is no tread left on the tires knowing it is their last dance together.

[Benton]

Think they're 1-2-1?

I'd say if Bell comes back, he plays every down.

[Whatever]

(09-30-2018, 09:30 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: Will Tomlin give into Bell when he comes back and play him at RB, letting the players rule, ... OR ... will he put him on special teams or just list him ineligible each week, like most of the 'old school coaches' would do?

Bell doesn't want to play and risk injury, especially after seeing what happened to Earl Thomas.

The Steelers will likely play him a lot.  Conner has been held to under 20 yards rushing in 2 of the last 3 games.

[motoarch]

I agree with all of the above.

Why would an old school coach sit him and why would Tomlin? No you freaking ride him till the wheels fall off.

He WANTS you to bench him. He doesn’t want to get hurt and he’s be getting paid to do so. That’s lose lose for the Steelers.

If you play him and feed him the ball like crazy he has to perform if he expects to get paid in free agancy. It’s in his interest to either play his best or he has to fake injury to not risk a really one.

Sorry your logic just dosent make a lot of sence cause it implies that sitting him is a way of punishing him and it’s not. It’s what he wants.

[bengalguy71]

(10-01-2018, 02:26 PM)motoarch Wrote: I agree with all of the above.

Why would an old school coach sit him and why would Tomlin?  No you freaking ride him till the wheels fall off.

He WANTS you to bench him.  He doesn’t want to get hurt and he’s be getting paid to do so.  That’s lose lose for the Steelers.

If you play him and feed him the ball like crazy he has to perform if he expects to get paid in free agancy.  It’s in his interest to either play his best or he has to fake injury to not risk a really one.

Sorry your logic just dosent make a lot of sence cause it implies that sitting him is a way of punishing him and it’s not.  It’s what he wants.

It's like this.  Part of the problem in Pittsburgh is the prima donnas are running the asylum.

What makes you think he will play, IF he doesn't WANT to?

He got away with doing what he wanted for the first half of the season!

I would do the opposite of what HE wanted to do, to let him know that he's not in charge.

You think Kraft and Billy B would have handled it this way??

[motoarch]

He’ll play because he has too. If he goes the whole season without signing his tender he loses a year toward free agency and the whole process starts over. Therefore he has to sign by week 10 or 11 I forget which. At that point he’s obligated to play or forfit his right to free agancy which would make signing a moot point.

This goes back to what I just explained in the pervious post so I’m not going to restate all of it as it should be self explanatory at this point.

In sounds like you’re harboring some sort of rage or resentment toward what he’s doing but why shouldn’t he do it. What happened to earl Tomas yesterday is a perfect example of why bells sitting out. He’s not under contract so why should he play? He’s not making any money right now so why should he play? Why should he risk an injury that will reduce his ablity to make money at his job because a team can franchise him in order to force him to play on a one year deal over and over agian? That’s stupid. I don’t blame him and no one else should either so get off you hi horse for a minute and give this some rational thought.

If you don’t get it you never will but EVERYONE in this thread has told you’re wrong so maybe just maybe you’re wrong.

And yes kraft and B.B. would handle it the way I discribed because theyer way smarter than you apparently. They don’t give a crap what he wants. They want to win and they ride the crap out of him. Theyed get what they wanted out of him then dump him on the curb.

Make dumb decisions out of spite and because it’s the opposite of what someone else wants is a stupid way to go through life. Makes decisions that benefit you; not ones that are a determinant just to be spiteful.

[bengalguy71]

(10-01-2018, 11:38 PM)motoarch Wrote: He’ll play because he has too.  If he goes the whole season without signing his tender he loses a year toward free agency and the whole process starts over.  Therefore he has to sign by week 10 or 11 I forget which.  At that point he’s obligated to play or forfit his right to free agancy which would make signing a moot point.  

This goes back to what I just explained in the pervious post so I’m not going to restate all of it as it should be self explanatory at this point.

In sounds like you’re harboring some sort of rage or resentment toward what he’s doing but why shouldn’t he do it.  What happened to earl Tomas yesterday is a perfect example of why bells sitting out.  He’s not under contract so why should he play?  He’s not making any money right now so why should he play?  Why should he risk an injury that will reduce his ablity to make money at his job because a team can franchise him in order to force him to play on a one year deal over and over agian?  That’s stupid.  I don’t blame him and no one else should either so get off you hi horse for a minute and give this some rational thought.

If you don’t get it you never will but EVERYONE in this thread has told you’re wrong so maybe just maybe you’re wrong.

And yes kraft and B.B. would handle it the way I discribed because theyer way smarter than you apparently.  They don’t give a crap what he wants.  They want to win and they ride the crap out of him.  Theyed get what they wanted out of him then dump him on the curb.

Make dumb decisions out of spite and because it’s the opposite of what someone else wants is a stupid way to go through life.  Makes decisions that benefit you; not ones that are a determinant just to be spiteful.

Belittle if you find it necessary, but I don't think you are as smart as you think you are!

[motoarch]

So because you can’t form a cogent and sensible argument you’re going to call out spelling and grammar typos? That’s about the lowest form of insult or argument. It’s what you do when you know you’re wrong and can’t support your point.

Good luck with that.

[bengalguy71]

(10-02-2018, 12:33 AM)motoarch Wrote: So because you can’t form a cogent and sensible argument you’re going to call out spelling and grammar typos?  That’s about the lowest form of insult or argument.  It’s what you do when you know you’re wrong and can’t support your point.

Good luck with that.

Well at least you seemed to use the 'spell checker' this time.


(Some people's children)

It's NOT an argument, it's an exchange of opinions.  

Yes, and it is my opinion, that after Bell's 100 million dollar ultimatum, the Pats would have released him, and he'd be sitting at home without a job this year.

I think the inmates are running the asylum in Pittsburgh, and that's all on Tomlin and Rooney.  They care more about themselves than winning as Brown showed himself, whining about his numbers and then skipping practice like a 6 year old instead of being a stand up team player kind of guy AJ Green is.

Jacksonville's victory in the playoffs last year, with Bell pissing and moaning about his contract last year two days before, was poetic justice for me!

[motoarch]

If they released him as you suggest then they get NOTHING for him and obviously no production out of him and he’s free to sign with who ever he wants for the long term contract that he WANTS.

So again that’s a loss for Pittsburgh and a win for Bell.


You going to stop now or just keep dig this hole? You clearly have zero clue how any of this works.

Or you can go back to attacking my spelling and grammar.

[*wildcats forever*]

Knock off the personal comments, and stay on topic. Thanks.

[StrictlyBiz]

(10-01-2018, 11:38 PM)motoarch Wrote: What happened to earl Tomas yesterday is a perfect example of why bells sitting out.  He’s not under contract so why should he play?  He’s not making any money right now so why should he play?  Why should he risk an injury that will reduce his ablity to make money at his job because a team can franchise him in order to force him to play on a one year deal over and over agian?  That’s stupid.  I don’t blame him and no one else should either so get off you hi horse for a minute and give this some rational thought.

I've been saying that the ONLY way that Bell benefits financially from sitting out is if he avoids a catastrophic injury that either is a career ender, or jeopardizes his future ability . And there's no way of knowing that.  Otherwise he's just pissing money away and he will never make that money up regardless of the guarantees in his next contract. 

As bad as his injury is, Thomas will be ready to go and fully healed for next year. His broken leg will have zero impact on his next contract. And bonus, Thomas will get paid his entire salary this year. Like an idiot Bell is going to forfeit $8M, most likely for no reason.

While he may be reducing his chance of injury by reducing the number of touches that he gets, he's not fully eliminating it. He still has to play and with that comes the chance of injury. He could very well tear an ACL in week 17. Sitting out only guarantees that he will not tear an ACL before week 10 and at a cost of $8M. If you are going to suffer a major injury in a contract year, wouldn't it be more preferable to do it early in the season, like week 4 giving you the longest possible time to recover? And likewise, if you are going to suffer a career ending injury in a contract year, wouldn't you want to maximize your income that year? 

Bell is an idiot with limited understanding of finances and he's going to lose as much as $8M over it. 

[motoarch]

^ this is a legitimate and thoughtful argument. This is how you do it.

Having said that let me frame bells position as I see it. I hate the Steelers and have no interest in defending bell in particular but I understand his point... I think.

He’s coming off a rookie contract after performing at a level where he’s arguably the best rd in the league. He feels like any play could be his last right. Careers are short and rbs take a beating. He preformed at a high level cheap and now he wants to be compensated so he sits out.

The team says look sign this tender and you’re going to make millions for one year and next year we’ll take care of you properly. He knows it’s a risk but 15mill is a lot of money so he eventually shows up and signs.

Next year rolls around and quess what. The team doesn’t take care of him. They franchise him again. 15mill is a lot to walk away from but he knows they’ll just dump him the next year cause they’ve soured the relationship by doing this to him again. They know the team is going to ride him hard and if he gets hurt no one will sign him long term because they don’t know if the product is able to produce or if the injury has deminished his abilities.

So yes he’s lossing 8+mill this year so he won’t miss out on 50,60, 70 or whatever he expects to sign for.

I’m not arguing he’s worth it and I’m not saying he’s not replaceable but I do think the franchising system is broken to favor owners to force someone to play for them at the risk of that players career.

I hope this clarifies my position and what I believe his to be. I thought he was being foolish and greedy but more I think about it it’s a business and the owners care about the their bottom line. They don’t care about the player. I’m not blaming them for that nor do I blame the player for looking out for his own interest. It’s not fair to the fans but it’s not solo responsibility of the player though. The owners are just as culpable but are more invisible in these matters so it’s eaier to blame the player.


It’s strictlybiz... see what I did there

[Whatever]

(10-02-2018, 08:32 PM)StrictlyBiz Wrote: I've been saying that the ONLY way that Bell benefits financially from sitting out is if he avoids a catastrophic injury that either is a career ender, or jeopardizes his future ability . And there's no way of knowing that.  Otherwise he's just pissing money away and he will never make that money up regardless of the guarantees in his next contract. 

As bad as his injury is, Thomas will be ready to go and fully healed for next year. His broken leg will have zero impact on his next contract. And bonus, Thomas will get paid his entire salary this year. Like an idiot Bell is going to forfeit $8M, most likely for no reason.

While he may be reducing his chance of injury by reducing the number of touches that he gets, he's not fully eliminating it. He still has to play and with that comes the chance of injury. He could very well tear an ACL in week 17. Sitting out only guarantees that he will not tear an ACL before week 10 and at a cost of $8M. If you are going to suffer a major injury in a contract year, wouldn't it be more preferable to do it early in the season, like week 4 giving you the longest possible time to recover? And likewise, if you are going to suffer a career ending injury in a contract year, wouldn't you want to maximize your income that year? 

Bell is an idiot with limited understanding of finances and he's going to lose as much as $8M over it. 

Thomas and Bell are in different situations.  Thomas is under contract.  As a matter of fact, he is under a contract that he negotiated in good faith and was happy with a few years back.  Safeties also generally enjoy longer careers and injuries don't depreciate their value as much as a RB.  Thomas is headed into his third major payday after being a 1st round pick and having already signed one extension.  He's made over $48 million in his career, over 3x what Bell has.  He is still going to get a huge payday on his third contract.  Bell will likely be on one year "prove it" deals after his next contract is done.  

[McC]

I'd say Tomlin will do whatever he sees as the best way to get a grip on the job that is slipping though his fingers.

[*bengalfan74*]

Anybody find it.......interesting that Bell is coming back when it's convenient for him ?

[StrictlyBiz]

(10-03-2018, 10:47 PM)Whatever Wrote: Thomas and Bell are in different situations.  Thomas is under contract.  As a matter of fact, he is under a contract that he negotiated in good faith and was happy with a few years back.  Safeties also generally enjoy longer careers and injuries don't depreciate their value as much as a RB.  Thomas is headed into his third major payday after being a 1st round pick and having already signed one extension.  He's made over $48 million in his career, over 3x what Bell has.  He is still going to get a huge payday on his third contract.  Bell will likely be on one year "prove it" deals after his next contract is done.  

Everything that you wrote here is 100% accurate and true. However it has nothing to do with my post, nor does it refute it. In fact it only enhances my point that Bell is an idiot for not taking all of the right now-guaranteed money of the franchise tag. 

If injuries are worse for a RB than a CB regarding their impact on future values, then that is all the more reason to take the $14.5M of the franchise tag since Bell can't completely mitigate the chance for injury by sitting out. He can only reduce it by roughly 60%. If Bell were to suffer the same injury as Earl Thomas when he comes back, except that his will greatly impact his future performance, he's going to wish that he had the extra $9.5M that he's walking away from.  

[StrictlyBiz]

(10-02-2018, 10:11 PM)motoarch Wrote: ^ this is a legitimate and thoughtful argument.  This is how you do it.

Having said that let me frame bells position as I see it.  I hate the Steelers and have no interest in defending bell in particular but I understand his point... I think.

He’s coming off a rookie contract after performing at a level where he’s arguably the best rd in the league.  He feels like any play could be his last right.  Careers are short and rbs take a beating.  He preformed at a high level cheap and now he wants to be compensated so he sits out.

The team says look sign this tender and you’re going to make millions for one year and next year we’ll take care of you properly.  He knows it’s a risk but 15mill is a lot of money so he eventually shows up and signs.

Next year rolls around and quess what.  The team doesn’t take care of him.  They franchise him again.  15mill is a lot to walk away from but he knows they’ll just dump him the next year cause they’ve soured the relationship by doing this to him again.  They know the team is going to ride him hard and if he gets hurt no one will sign him long term because they don’t know if the product is able to produce or if the injury has deminished his abilities.

So yes he’s lossing 8+mill this year so he won’t miss out on 50,60, 70 or whatever he expects to sign for.

Couple of things....$15M guaranteed for a RB for 1 year is exceptional and, aside from Gurley who signed AFTER the tag was placed on Bell, is far and away the most for the position. 

Losing $8M in the present isn't guaranteeing the he won't miss out on the 50-70 mil later. If it were, then I would understand his position. Chances are high that he could have had both. Of course there's always the chance that an injury ruins his opportunity at the larger guarantee, but he's not fully eliminating that chance. He's only reducing it by 60%. It's entirely possible that he loses the $8M and severely injures himself causing him to miss out on the 50-70M.