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**sandwedge** · 10-02-2018, 01:11 PM

(10-02-2018, 01:00 PM)thillan Wrote: I did mention two QBs in here, one of which is in his sophomore season lol.

But I see your point, though RG3s was because of injury. I'm not sure everyone thought Dak was the next great QB.. he was just winning behind a great O-line and paired with an elite RB. I didn't hear many saying that.

With respect, you can see the potential in some players. You don't always have to hide your thoughts until the scary "sophomore" season. Mahomes has one of the strongest arms I've ever seen. That's not something that goes away in the sophomore season.. that's a weapon every game. And it makes him REALLY hard to defend.

Watson has big play ability, and a pretty good deep ball. I just think he has great tools to be an MVP-level QB. Again, you don't have to wait 2-3 years to see the tools. He has them.

I get the point about passing on QBs, but I don't think it's pointless. Teams do it all the time to find comparisons so that they don't make the same mistake. Do you think the Chiefs traded up, even with a solid, proven QB if they didn't see the potential and the comparisons? I'm sure they looked back to see what he looks like. Regardless, if you miss, you do have to move on, but you will have to face that player. So it does haunt you.

RG3 had injuries, but he was derailed because he couldn't read defenses.
And yes looking back is pointless.

**Bengalitis** · 10-02-2018, 01:18 PM

(10-02-2018, 12:33 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: LOL..typical Monday morning QB

Rodgers - 22 or 23 teams missed
Brady - Pick #199 so 31 teams missed arguably the best QB ever
Ben R. - 9 teams missed
Wilson - 31 teams missed multiple times
Favre - 31 teams including the Packers missed multiple times

These are just a few of the misses by a lot of NFL teams

Easy after the fact to say the missed, but the Brady Quinns, Ryan Leafs, Akili Smiths, Jack Thompson's and many more prove easier said than done drafting the right QB or any position really.

We had Fitzmagic on our team too back in the day. Ninja

**McC** · 10-02-2018, 01:18 PM

When milk spills, I just wipe it up and move on. Otherwise, you're just needlessly driving yourself crazy.

**thillan** · 10-02-2018, 01:23 PM

(10-02-2018, 01:18 PM)McC Wrote: When milk spills, I just wipe it up and move on. Otherwise, you're just needlessly driving yourself crazy.

Stop spilling your milk

**McC** · 10-02-2018, 01:26 PM

(10-02-2018, 01:23 PM)thillan Wrote: Stop spilling your milk

Stop driving yourself crazy. And maybe it ain't me doing the spilling.

**motoarch** · 10-02-2018, 01:26 PM

I’m not sure I agree with any of this. Our post season issues seem more related to coaching, game planning and poor discipline then anything else.

Andy Dalton’s play has landed us in the playoffs every year of his career for five years running then he had his receivers and online taken away. Drafting someone to replace him would not have filled a void. It would only sever to replace a known quantity with an unknown and left the other gaps as they were.

I’m not suggesting andy is a great qb but he’s above average and I think underrated by the sports media. He’s more than shown his value when give a fair chance. We are currently 4 or 5 across the nfl in scoring so he’s putting points on the board. What more do you want from him?

**thillan** · 10-02-2018, 01:43 PM

(10-02-2018, 01:26 PM)motoarch Wrote: I’m not sure I agree with any of this. Our post season issues seem more related to coaching, game planning and poor discipline then anything else.

Andy Dalton’s play has landed us in the playoffs every year of his career for five years running then he had his receivers and online taken away. Drafting someone to replace him would not have filled a void. It would only sever to replace a known quantity with an unknown and left the other gaps as they were.

I’m not suggesting andy is a great qb but he’s above average and I think underrated by the sports media. He’s more than shown his value when give a fair chance. We are currently 4 or 5 across the nfl in scoring so he’s putting points on the board. What more do you want from him?

Again, I like Andy... but come on. Andy has not played great in playoffs. 1 TD 6 INT, and in 2014 went 18-35 with 0 TD with a 51% passer rating. I get it's not all on him, but QBs need to be playmakers too (which he has of course done this season, especially in ATL).

And of course, the other QBs I brought up haven't played in the postseason yet, so there is no number comparison there.

I agree he's underrated too. I think people are getting a little defensive whenever he's brought up at this point though. I have stated numerous times I like Andy. Chiefs liked Alex Smith. You CAN upgrade, and I DON'T think he's the best, nobody does. That's the point to me, going for the best you can.

But I do believe we can win with Andy this year, and he's shown it so far.

**grampahol** · 10-02-2018, 01:44 PM

IDK.. I've always thought Andy was better than Alex Smith and still do. Of course he's going to have games that don't look as good as others, but he'll never play in a game of 11 on 1 with nobody else on the field with him and neither will Maholms..
It's just silly and unrealistic to think any QB will win consistently with only 5th string receivers and terrible offensive lines and weak running backs..
Look at us last year . How many of the so called elite QBs could have won 7 or more games with our Oline and Zampeze as the OC getting fired 2 games in? I dare say not many if any except Andy.
You really have to wonder just how much Zampeze regretted being the guy who picked Bill Lazor as his successor as the QBs coach only to have him take over his new role as the OC?
ANYWAYS.....
Back to the question at hand. Andy is a very good QB despite the folks who think he isn't. So you're suggesting that they should have gambled on catching lighting in a tiny little perfume bottle on a perfectly sunny afternoon .
People forget just how much Andy has accomplished since his first season.. 5 consecutive post season appearences and did it under duress BIG TIME that first season when NOBODY was expecting us to win more than 4 games.. Replacing Andy in the off season would have been worse than mere gambling . It would have been the equivalent of selling off everything you ever owned, pimping out your 3 year old daughter and hitch hiking to China during a typhoon to buy a pick 3 lottery ticket expecting to win the biggest power ball payout in history..

But geewiz.. it sure is fun to play What if when you're gambling with other people's money .

**corpjet** · 10-02-2018, 02:09 PM

Lets be honest Ross was a bad pic, regardless if we took one of the QBs we could have done better with that top 10 pick

fredtoast · 10-02-2018, 02:16 PM

I don't see the point of a thread like this.

Basically you could make one for every single team every single year.

Everything is simple when you know what the future holds.

***SHRacerX*** · 10-02-2018, 02:23 PM

(10-02-2018, 11:41 AM)thillan Wrote: Just wanted to start a discussion about this, and wanted to start off with this:

I LIKE John Ross. His speed is incredible, and he honestly is already one of my favorite Bengals. It's fun to have electric players like him.

I LIKE Andy Dalton. I have never thought of him as a top 5 QB, but I do think he's underrated.. but I don't think he's a world beater either.

I am of the mindset that getting a star QB allows your team to have a MUCH larger SB window. Teams like GB, NE, PHI, NO, etc. always have a chance to at least contend, because the QB is so special.

Now of course, you need to have SOME talent around them. Otherwise you end up with a situation like Seattle. If they just had a decent line, things improve a lot for them.

Which leads me to this: we have a talented team, but many of us worry we have a ceiling that does not call for the SB. I understand, and I also understand "Any Given Sunday." BUT.. we picked a WR with some questions.. and missed out on Deshaun Watson and Patrick Mahomes.

I really think we missed. And both of these guys are in our conference. I get that we aren't in a bad QB situation by any means, but I do think you can change from good to great. And I think we missed our chance.

What are your guys thoughts on this? I really think that having either Watson or Mahomes on our squad, with the talent we have, opens up a bigger window for us. And the future would be REALLY bright.

PS: I know some will say Watson isn't playing that great.. I'd argue against it. His O-line is atrocious, and he's still showing playmaking ability to keep these guys in games. Overall, I think he has much more potential than Andy has ever had, but again, Andy is not a bad QB by any means.

PPS: It's officlal. Mahomes has the second or third strongest arm I have ever seen. And that's a HUGE weapon, every single game.

As with any draft, you really need to let it play out 3-5 years to see how the player actually contributes.

Last year, everyone was slobbering over themselves about DeShawn Watson. This year, not so much.

**magikod** · 10-02-2018, 02:25 PM

(10-02-2018, 12:29 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I'll set the over/under on points scored at 87.

lmfao :andy: :andy:

**motoarch** · 10-02-2018, 02:27 PM

(10-02-2018, 02:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I don't see the point of a thread like this.

Basically you could make one for every single team every single year.

Everything is simple when you know what the future holds.

Agreed.

I just threw up in my mouth a little.

***Go Cards*** · 10-02-2018, 02:45 PM

We missed on 2017 draft by neglecting to address the O-line.

Walked out of draft party immediately after drafting Ross.

Not because I dislike Ross or thought he would be bad, but for not addressing our OL.

You can swing at QB's and miss very often. Way more do not make it than do.

**Stewy** · 10-02-2018, 02:48 PM

Ok let's not get too excited about rookie QBs. Remember when Dak Prescott was seen as the second coming?

Rookies notoriously do great or awful. Reality is somewhere in between.

About Watson:
I'm from Houston, and watch the Texans and listen to the local sports guys who have forgotten more about football than I know, and while they like Watson in the long run, they are tapping the breaks for the following reasons:
#1 - Teams adjust - It's a fact that once you get tape on a rookie QB then teams learn their tendencies and adjust their schemes accordingly. Watson only has 10 NFL starts, so teams don't even have a full season of tape yet, and they're already adjusting to him.
#2 - He's a TO machine. Sure he puts up big fantasy numbers, but he turns the ball over like mad, and through his own mistakes and poor decisions.
#3 - He doesn't go through progressions, and focus' in on one receiver telegraphing his throws. Most of his picks are from throwing into double and triple coverage of DeAndre Hopkins.
#4 - He holds on to the ball too long. Half of his sacks can be attributed to this and not just his OLine.

Note: 3 & 4 above were also tendencies from college that have not been adjusted.

About Mahomes:
Give teams time to adjust. He looks good now, but I doubt he will continue at this pace. And if he does, which I doubt, then every team missed, not just us. Finally, 1st round QBs still bust at a 50% rate, so you can't blame teams for passing on both these guys, who both had serious concerns about them coming out of college.

**Joelist** · 10-02-2018, 03:02 PM

Mahomes has had a strong start but part of it is the new rules and part he just drew a lineup of teams so far that are singularly unsuited to defend the KC offense. His last game was actually the first time in his career he faced any pressure in the pocket at all and all of a sudden he was a lot more ordinary (plus the refs missing an obvious delay of game didn't help Denver any). Also, when you have Mitch Trubisky throwing for 6 TDs it is obvious there is a league wide problem going on with defenses.

**Daddy-O** · 10-02-2018, 03:21 PM

(10-02-2018, 11:59 AM)sandwedge Wrote: Funny how fans want to make changes when the team is playing great..... It just boggles my mind...

Kinda like a girlfriend, tend to hold on to them until you can upgrade. But there's no guarantee the new one is going to be better than the old one long term.

**Bengalitis** · 10-02-2018, 03:29 PM

(10-02-2018, 03:21 PM)Daddy-O Wrote: Kinda like a girlfriend, tend to hold on to them until you can upgrade. But there's no guarantee the new one is going to be better than the old one long term.

If only girlfriends could be drafted too. Ninja

fredtoast · 10-02-2018, 03:34 PM

(10-02-2018, 03:02 PM)Joelist Wrote: Mahomes has had a strong start but part of it is the new rules and part he just drew a lineup of teams so far that are singularly unsuited to defend the KC offense. His last game was actually the first time in his career he faced any pressure in the pocket at all and all of a sudden he was a lot more ordinary (plus the refs missing an obvious delay of game didn't help Denver any). Also, when you have Mitch Trubisky throwing for 6 TDs it is obvious there is a league wide problem going on with defenses.

Doesn't hurt that he has a brilliant offensive mind as a head coach (Reid), the league's defending rushing leader at RB (Hunt), an All Pro TE (Kelci), an All Pro WR (Hill), and a #2 WR who had 1000+ yds in 2015 and has averaged over 15 YPC every season of his career (Watkins).

**samhain** · 10-02-2018, 03:34 PM

They missed big time in 2015. This isn't because of who they didn't draft, but who they did. Set the team back years offensively with those two bums. 2017 looks like it was a pretty good draft. At the time QB was not a major need. I think the board would have lost it's collective mind if the Bengals took a player like Mahomes with a top 10 pick that year.

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