Redmond - Weakest link on the line

[fredtoast]

(10-25-2018, 07:14 PM)Joelist Wrote: The Dallas fans forums and sports writers have also called out the new blocking technique they are using as causing problems. Where did they get the new technique? PA.

Fans often do not know what they are talking about.

Most people here would tell you that PA ran more zone run blocking schemes than Pollack.  You have read that haven't you?

[fredtoast]

(10-26-2018, 11:31 AM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: I can see that viewpoint but it is too clinical. Human nature will show that owners will act with some level of "comfort" - perhaps choose the coach with experience then the one without. A good example is the Celtics when they chose Brad Stevens as HC, almost everyone thought WTF??? But he quickly became one of the best head coaches in the NBA. 

With your argument you could translate that to any business and say every CEO is the best their is because it is the top position in the business world. But no, many (if not most) fail, they are not the best. Sometimes someone is very good for a short window of time or in a very specific spot. Many CEO's go from firm to firm and often fail all over the place but keep getting more chances. It happens. 

This is humans picking other humans, ergo subjective to human error. To say there is no coordinator or other coach or ANY college coach who could not do a better job than ML (or Hue Jackson or Doug Marrone or, etc etc) is ridiculous. MANY of the head coaches in the NFL are the best but many are outright average or weak or just plain bad. 

Coslet, Crennel, Marion Campbell, Kotite, Dave Shula, etc etc. Right now you can say Hue and Doug Marrone and a few others who simply are not that good. 

You are missing one big point.  Even if the 32 best men are in head coaching positions half of them are going to be losers.  So when you say a head coach is bad you are simply saying he is not as good compared to the other 32.  It does not mean there are a lot of better coaches out there.

And is sure as hell does not mean that every NFL fan is smarter than the NFL coaching staffs.  These guys have dedicated their lives to coaching and spent thousands of hours evaluating film and players.  They know a hell of a lot more than us.

I played football at a very small college, but I played for an elite coach (Ken Sparks) who had a staff he kept together for many years.  Those guys would see things on film that none of us would. I remember the first film session when the coach showed how a guy lining up about a foot out of position (inside shoulder or receiver instead of outside) effected the entire coverage an resulted in a long completion on the opposite side of the field 30 yards from where the mistake was made.

I'd love to see you guys try to sit in a film room and show NFL coaches where they are wrong.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-25-2018, 04:35 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Perhaps I'm wrong, but I view Alexander as being a dinosaur. He was a high quality coach back in the old days but the game has evolved to a point where his teaching techniques and talent evaluation do not fit well with today's game/players. 

I don't think you are wrong about that. The game has just passed him by.

(10-25-2018, 05:19 PM)Sled21 Wrote: You got me, I misspelled it. I am recovering from Cataract surgery, and can barely see the keyboard....

Cool Sled, sorry bout that.

(10-25-2018, 05:19 PM)fredtoast Wrote: They lost their All Pro Center and are starting a rookie at LG.  So it is hard to judge.  But if you remember I agreed that PA had to go after the Bodine/Ogbuehi/Fisher picks wrecked our O-line.

How about your opinion of Pollack?  Can he still walk on water and cure the sick?

Yeah i thought once they had an injury to that polished O-line we would see a big difference and it would show, big time.

And it is.

Too early to say about Pollack, been impressed at times but i thought Redmond had some tools to work with with his size,
strength and ability to move. Have not been impressed with what Pollack has done with Redmond. Maybe Redmond just
isn't smart enough but i heard he was smart too in some of Hobspin's puff pieces.

(10-25-2018, 07:33 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote:

You are welcome fine sir.

(10-25-2018, 08:22 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: It only matters what gruden thinks about him.  Last year he slobbered all over him on mnf

True, it would be awesome to get something for him, just don't know if we should trade away our best player from our
weakest position group at this time. But who knows, maybe Vigil is our best LB'er right now, never thought i would say
that.

Malik Jefferson has tons of upside. We need more speed, better coverage and better tackling out of our LB's.

(10-26-2018, 08:55 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: You're not alone in thinking that Fisher was going to settle into being at least a solid starter.  His rookie year, when they were putting him all over the place, just to get him on the field;  I really thought to myself "Wow, this guy is an athlete.  He's going to be a special player for the Bengals.".

I was impressed with how they moved him all over the place as a rookie and played that well.

Hard to do. That heart problem seems to have destroyed his game.

(10-26-2018, 09:52 AM)ochocincos Wrote: Not only that, PA also said Ogbuehi and Fisher would become great OTs in this league. Meanwhile, we're still waiting for either to contribute anything of quality and we're in Year 4. If they do ever become solid OTs (which I doubt), it's not going to be with the Bengals.

Dinosaur with stubborness, not good bedfellows.

[SunsetBengal]

(10-26-2018, 12:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I was impressed with how they moved him all over the place as a rookie and played that well.

Hard to do. That heart problem seems to have destroyed his game.

Yeah, I feel badly for him.  But heart condition and remaining unusually large, strong and athletic, don't really go hand in hand.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(10-26-2018, 01:08 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yeah, I feel badly for him.  But heart condition and remaining unusually large, strong and athletic, don't really go hand in hand.

Feel the same.

[fredtoast]

(10-26-2018, 01:08 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yeah, I feel badly for him.  But heart condition and remaining unusually large, strong and athletic, don't really go hand in hand.

There was a story before the 2017 season where Fisher said he was going off his medication for his heart issue because it made him "sluggish".  I was afraid that he would have to go back on those meds.

[*ochocincos*]

(10-26-2018, 12:54 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I don't think you are wrong about that. The game has just passed him by.


Cool Sled, sorry bout that.


Yeah i thought once they had an injury to that polished O-line we would see a big difference and it would show, big time.

And it is.

Too early to say about Pollack, been impressed at times but i thought Redmond had some tools to work with with his size,
strength and ability to move. Have not been impressed with what Pollack has done with Redmond. Maybe Redmond just
isn't smart enough but i heard he was smart too in some of Hobspin's puff pieces.


You are welcome fine sir.


True, it would be awesome to get something for him, just don't know if we should trade away our best player from our
weakest position group at this time. But who knows, maybe Vigil is our best LB'er right now, never thought i would say
that.

Malik Jefferson has tons of upside. We need more speed, better coverage and better tackling out of our LB's.


I was impressed with how they moved him all over the place as a rookie and played that well.

Hard to do. That heart problem seems to have destroyed his game.


Dinosaur with stubborness, not good bedfellows.

Perhaps Redmond is suffering from the same thing we've seen even Zeitler deal with his final year in Cincinnati...poor OL on either side of him. I'm not saying he'd be necessarily be good if he had a good C and/or RT next to him rather than mediocre-at-best Hart and Hopkins, but I think we'd probably see better RG performance overall if there was better performance from C and/or RT.

[Whatever]

(10-26-2018, 02:03 PM)ochocincos Wrote: Perhaps Redmond is suffering from the same thing we've seen even Zeitler deal with his final year in Cincinnati...poor OL on either side of him. I'm not saying he'd be necessarily be good if he had a good C and/or RT next to him rather than mediocre-at-best Hart and Hopkins, but I think we'd probably see better RG performance overall if there was better performance from C and/or RT.

Personally, the poor play on either side of him made Z look better than what he was.  

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(10-26-2018, 12:20 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You are missing one big point.  Even if the 32 best men are in head coaching positions half of them are going to be losers.  So when you say a head coach is bad you are simply saying he is not as good compared to the other 32.  It does not mean there are a lot of better coaches out there.

And is sure as hell does not mean that every NFL fan is smarter than the NFL coaching staffs.  These guys have dedicated their lives to coaching and spent thousands of hours evaluating film and players.  They know a hell of a lot more than us.

I played football at a very small college, but I played for an elite coach (Ken Sparks) who had a staff he kept together for many years.  Those guys would see things on film that none of us would. I remember the first film session when the coach showed how a guy lining up about a foot out of position (inside shoulder or receiver instead of outside) effected the entire coverage an resulted in a long completion on the opposite side of the field 30 yards from where the mistake was made.

I'd love to see you guys try to sit in a film room and show NFL coaches where they are wrong.

By no means am i saying fans have any clue compared to any experienced coach. Given how many coaches there are in the talent pool so to speak (lets just use every pro league plus college) it is easy to say that better options are out there for most teams. Also keep in mind that even the best coaches can run there course (Shula, Noll, Landry) and get stale or fall behind current trends, etc. At the end of the day, it comes down to  the desire to win by the owner. 

A valid question - how many owners in this league would accept and reward a 0-8 playoff record? One. The one who truly does not care about winning a SB so he is happy to keep a HC who puts up with him, makes him money and keeps him out of the limelight. But there are many better candidates out there. But one has to look first.

[fredtoast]

(10-26-2018, 04:10 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: A valid question - how many owners in this league would accept and reward a 0-8 playoff record? 

As much as I defend Marvin I felt he should not have been back as our HC this year.

Losing in the playoffs is bad, but making the playoffs is good.  Very rarely does a HC get fired after making the playoffs.

But after back to back losing seasons it was time to make a change.

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-26-2018, 04:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: As much as I defend Marvin I felt he should not have been back as our HC this year.

Losing in the playoffs is bad, but making the playoffs is good.  Very rarely does a HC get fired after making the playoffs.

But after back to back losing seasons it was time to make a change.

It was time a long time ago.

[BenZoo2]

(10-25-2018, 08:33 PM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: If we are trading players based on Gruden's opinions, we need to send "This Dre KirKPaTRiCK" (this is how Gruden pronounces his name, overemphasizing the consonants) over there for a first rounder.

That would be nice!  Gruden loves veteran players but I doubt he's dumb enough to give up that much for dre.  

[masonbengals fan]

(10-26-2018, 04:42 PM)fredtoast Wrote: As much as I defend Marvin I felt he should not have been back as our HC this year.

Losing in the playoffs is bad, but making the playoffs is good.  Very rarely does a HC get fired after making the playoffs.

But after back to back losing seasons it was time to make a change.

It was past time.