Second Half Tempo

[*bengalfan74*]

(10-28-2018, 07:05 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Is that a players thing, or a Head Coach thing?  The roster has turned over a couple times under Marvin Lewis, yet we still see the same things.  Kind of odd, don't you think?

Oh I feel coaching is a major player, they set the mood, tone, and so on. I think the players have a role in it as well though. For lack of a better way to put it they still really don't know how to win. They let up which I fell goes back to coaching. It's a vicious cycle.

[HarleyDog]

(10-28-2018, 05:52 PM)bengalguy71 Wrote: It's part of why they will probably only win 2 more games ... 3 at best ... Oakland and one of the Browns games, and maybe the Ravens game.

IF the HC for Tampa had put Fitzpatrick in sooner, the Bucs probably would have won.

I'm sticking with 7-9 no playoffs.

Don't agree. If you think this team has only 2 more victories in them, You haven't really been watching? We have struggles. Every team does. Once we get some guys back, we will start getting things rolling. We were rolling today pretty well, but we imploded enough to barely win. That stinks for sure. But we won and hopefully the teams builds on it. I respect your right to be negative, but I seriously think your calling the fate of this team to soon.

(10-28-2018, 06:00 PM)mhbsavant Wrote: It is just starting to get irritating...

Imagine this....being chased by a man with a knife... And since you happen to be faster, you have like a 20-yard head start on the guy with a knife...Now since your gap is so comfortable, do you supposed to stop running?

Marvin Lewis is the type of giggling bastard that will stop to rest, or take baby steps because of the 20-yard gap and get his head sliced off because of being complacent.

There's some of the problem. Bucks were shanking our guys.  

I want the NFL to review this. 

(10-28-2018, 06:03 PM)Pat5775 Wrote: Once again, Marvin nearly blows a big second half lead. I called this coming back at halftime Marvin is insanely bad at maintaining a lead. It's mind-boggling how horrible his teams play in the second half with a lead

Yes it is. No clue why he does this? I wont say he does it on purpose. He does it with a trust that the offense is not going to go 3 & out. 

(10-28-2018, 06:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We have 5 wins this year. In 2 of them we were trailing at halftime. But I've learned from experience: Once a narrative gets rolling in this forum you cannot change it.

(10-28-2018, 06:48 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: You have to actually get first downs to truly play uptempo

Good post. Yes we do. We sucked a serious straw today when it came to the 3 & outs. Defense paid the price for having to run back out on the field consecutively. Not saying that was their demise, but it didn't help us at all. If anything, it just made for a tired D trying to stop an offense.

[Pat5775]

(10-28-2018, 07:01 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Near collapses you say?

We have not lost a game this year, in which, we were leading at halftime. 

But like I said about the narrative. 

Granted.

But you still don't see a problem there??

[*SHRacerX*]

With the way he is playing, his football IQ, and his experience...Why not let Dalton control the tempo?

Have any of you watched the Rams? Goff does what we used to call "the sugar huddle" near the LOS and if the opposition tries to make a substitution, he will quickly line up and snap the ball and catch them with 12 men on the field. It may seem gimmicky, but it affords him a free play, like Dalton FINALLY doing a hard count (which I think worked 5 times yesterday!).

I would allow Dalton more control on changing plays, controlling tempo, and going with quick-snap plays to prevent substitutions.

That being said, there were three times in the second half on read-option where Dalton handed off instead of keeping the ball and it was the wrong decision. If you never keep the ball, there is no option. He would have had clear sailing for a loooong way if he kept even one of them.

[SladeX]

(10-28-2018, 06:39 PM)bfine32 Wrote: We have 5 wins this year. In 2 of them we were trailing at halftime. But I've learned from experience: Once a narrative gets rolling in this forum you cannot change it.

Funny how this is a constant narrative on other bengals message boards for Marvin's entire tenure. Must be a conspiracy of some sort... .  

In other news, pain is caused by aggravated nerve endings, and fis live in the ocean. 

Every great once in a while that quacking waddling duck like thing
.
.
.
Is a duck!

[mhbsavant]

Marvin Lewis a Mole..

[BengalChris]

(10-28-2018, 05:58 PM)motoarch Wrote: Ok well then bye.



To the op.  What do you mean by slowing the tempo exactly?

They ran a lot and effectively in the first half.  Usually to slow tempo you run the ball.  They didn’t run that much in the second half because they never really gave themselves a chance cause they couldn’t get first downs.  I’m sure there are tons of reasons we can complain about why this was and how it hurt momentum but I’m not sure you can blame anyone for slowing the tempo.

Um, did you even watch the game?

Clearly the team slowed things down, then f-ed up by going 3 and out all 3rd quarter. That's just pathetic.

[bengaloo]

Speculation of course but I think Marvin personally orders the slowing of the pace when we have a nice lead and we stumble with that a lot. This offense doesnt seem to fit that and we also do better passing to set up the run rather than vise versa. I think we should go full speed full go all the time. It seems we do it best. Forget chewing clock, just score as many points as possible. Especially since our D is struggling.

[motoarch]

(10-29-2018, 09:37 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Um, did you even watch the game?

Clearly the team slowed things down, then f-ed up by going 3 and out all 3rd quarter. That's just pathetic.

Kinda hard to have a tempo if you can’t get a first down. Think about it.

[Joelist]

And again that is not what tempo means in football terms. Uptempo in football refers to how quickly you line up, get plays off, how much time you spend in huddle. Not run/pass balance - you can do a running attack uptempo as well as a passing attack. Uptempo can help cover for inadequacies on the offensive line and can tire defenses out because it has the side benefit of making it very hard to substitute.

[BengalChris]

(10-29-2018, 11:03 PM)Joelist Wrote: And again that is not what tempo means in football terms. Uptempo in football refers to how quickly you line up, get plays off, how much time you spend in huddle. Not run/pass balance - you can do a running attack uptempo as well as a passing attack. Uptempo can help cover for inadequacies on the offensive line and can tire defenses out because it has the side benefit of making it very hard to substitute.

Exactly

[motoarch]

And again I ask you what was diffrent between the first and second half tempo? No ones actually answered this so the whole point is moot.

You have to actually move the ball to establish a tempo and they never did that.

[mhbsavant]

(10-29-2018, 11:16 PM)motoarch Wrote: And again I ask you what was diffrent between the first and second half tempo?  No ones actually answered this so the whole point is moot.  

You have to actually move the ball to establish a tempo and they never did that.

YOU did not watch the same game. Now, I'd be up for a replay of the game and to point out the VANILLA playcalling, and the timestamps, just for you. But notice the URGENCY to score once the game was tied up. YOUR Defense is the worst in the NFL, you are up 3 scores, there is no reason to milk the clock then try to turn it back on once the game was tied. I'm a Bengal fan and I was hoping Dalton threw a pick6 to lose the game since all of sudden he was required to score again after almost 2 quarters of being told by the MOLE to slow it down. 

[SunsetBengal]

(10-28-2018, 05:58 PM)motoarch Wrote: Ok well then bye.



To the op.  What do you mean by slowing the tempo exactly?

They ran a lot and effectively in the first half.  Usually to slow tempo you run the ball.  They didn’t run that much in the second half because they never really gave themselves a chance cause they couldn’t get first downs.  I’m sure there are tons of reasons we can complain about why this was and how it hurt momentum but I’m not sure you can blame anyone for slowing the tempo.

Actually, you slow the tempo by spending a lot of time in the huddle.  By rushing to the line, forcing the defense to be in the ready position keeps their pulse up, and makes it tougher to catch their breath.  You can spend the entire play clock at the line, use that time to dissect the blitz/coverage, call checks, fake play changes, etc.  You can also run the ball, and hustle back to the line, keeping the defense on their heels.

[motoarch]

I understand everyone’s point and I don’t disagree in terms of how you can change a games tempo but no ones answered my question.

What is it they did in the second half that makes anyone believe they did a poor job of controlling the tempo?

When you go three and out every series you can not control change or otherwise dictate tempo. So I don’t understand how tempo is an explanation for there second half problem this weekeend as they had none at any point.

What were they doing in the first half as it relates to anything anyone’s explained above? What did they do in the second half that was or wasn’t the same and why did it or did it not work?

There’s no way to answer that because the sample size in the second half isn’t there.

[fredtoast]

Hate to burst everyone bubble here but Marvin did not slow down the temp at all or play too conservative in the third quarter with the lead. If you don't believe me then you can go look at the play by play with time stamps at either NFL.com or ProfootballReference.com.

First drive of the first quarter Bengals are snapping the ball every 25-35 second on the game clock except on incomplete passes. Exact same with the first drives of the third quarter.

First drive of the first quarter Bengals run the ball five times an throw two passes. In those three 3-and-out drives to start the second half Bengals throw 5 passes and run the ball 4 times.

Apparently a lot of fans don't really watch what is happening. Instead they just see what people on a message board have told them to see. It is really amazing at times. Last year when we blew that big lead against the Steelers in the second half people here tried to tell me it was because Marvin was too conservative with the play calling but he only ran the ball about 5 times in the entire second half.


The Bengals often don't play well in the second half, but it is not always because Marvin is too conservative or tries to burn the clock. And it is not nearly as bad as many people try to claim. The Bengals actually come from behind and win many games where they re trailing at halftime and they have NEVER lost a game in the second half because Marvin was too conservative with a lead.


Since 2011 The Bengals have outscore their opponents by 36 points in the second half wich is 12th best in the league.

[motoarch]

(10-30-2018, 01:05 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Hate to burst everyone bubble here but Marvin did not slow down the temp at all or play too conservative in the third quarter with the lead. If you don't believe me then you can go look at the play by play with time stamps at either NFL.com or ProfootballReference.com.

First drive of the first quarter Bengals are snapping the ball every 25-35 second on the game clock except on incomplete passes. Exact same with the first drives of the third quarter.

First drive of the first quarter Bengals run the ball five times an throw two passes. In those three 3-and-out drives to start the second half Bengals throw 5 passes and run the ball 4 times.

Apparently a lot of fans don't really watch what is happening. Instead they just see what people on a message board have told them to see. It is really amazing at times. Last year when we blew that big lead against the Steelers in the second half people here tried to tell me it was because Marvin was too conservative with the play calling but he only ran the ball about 5 times in the entire second half.

Basically this. I just didn’t see something in the second half to indicate to me that it was a tempo issue. No matter how you want to frame what ‘tempo’ is or means or how you change it.

When you’re up 27-9 at half time it hardly seems rational to say hey guys this is working so well why don’t we just change things go no huddle and really hit the gas.

Entering the fourth we were still up 18 points. Why would you hit the panic button with a 34-16 lead. In hindsight yes 18 wasn’t enough but to drastically move away from you game plan that up to that point was working is silly.

They didn’t slow down they didn’t move away from what was working but it certainly did stop working and midway through the fourth they need to figure out how to make a stop on defense not necessarily figure out how to score. It’s ridiculous to expect 40+ points a game to feel good about winning and not be nervous about it.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(10-31-2018, 10:49 AM)motoarch Wrote: Basically this.  I just didn’t see something in the second half to indicate to me that it was a tempo issue.  No matter how you want to frame what ‘tempo’ is or means or how you change it.

When you’re up 27-9 at half time it hardly seems rational to say hey guys this is working so well why don’t we just change things go no huddle and really hit the gas.

Entering the fourth we were still up 18 points.  Why would you hit the panic button with a 34-16 lead.  In hindsight yes 18 wasn’t enough but to drastically move away from you game plan that up to that point was working is silly.

They didn’t slow down they didn’t move away from what was working but it certainly did stop working and midway through the fourth they need to figure out how to make a stop on defense not necessarily figure out how to score.  It’s ridiculous to expect 40+ points a game to feel good about winning and not be nervous about it.

Exactly.  There are usually "lulls" in any game where both offenses struggle to convert.  I've seen it numerous times on here that it was the offense's fault the defense blew an 18 point FOURTH QUARTER lead.  I have a hard time digesting that.....

[*psychdoctor*]

You have to remember that the Bengals suffered many injuries that game which hindered the ability to close the door on Tampa. But I have to agree that the adjustments have been less than inspiring and Austin appears to be a big part on why Tampa was able to have a dramatic come-back. Fritz has been amazing for them given his age. Tampa is a good team with Fritz.

[fredtoast]

(10-30-2018, 12:31 PM)mhbsavant Wrote: I'm a Bengal fan and I was hoping Dalton threw a pick6 to lose the game since all of sudden he was required to score again after almost 2 quarters of being told by the MOLE to slow it down. 

1.  Marvin never told the offense to slow down.

2.  You are not a Bengal fan if you would rather whine than win.