Defense (Deep-Dive Analysis using PFF Ratings)

[THE PISTONS]

(11-04-2018, 11:27 AM)GreenCornBengal Wrote: Tend to think smart teams use first round picks on either
A) AJ Green home run type player
B) Play with extreme potential (John Ross, Hayward-Bey, those types of players, who have a 50/50 chance or maybe less of panning out)


In the second round, teams are targeting guys that are sure-fire contributors, but not necessarily world breakers. These picks have a higher chance of working out.

So seeing the 2nd rounders out performing the 1st rounders is something I would venture you would see with most teams. Just my opinion though!

And then when you pick mid to late 1st Round...generally good teams invest in the lines. It's not a sexy pick...but it pays dividends.

If you look at the Bengals and when we've had our best teams under Marvin, it's when we had a good offensive line each time.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-04-2018, 12:10 PM)jfkbengals Wrote: Was there not a listing for Hubbard's play on the end?  He's played a ton of snaps there as well.

So I have two problems with the bolded CB statement.  First, none of the starters are rated in the 50's, so I don't know why that is there.  Second, if 60's is above average, then you can't say that it's not good for the starters to be in the 60's.  Particularly in the modern NFL of rules favoring offensive players.

I'll clarify:

I meant 50's and 60's in the ranking of players from 1 to how many there are at that position. You get a rating based on your play. And then that rating gets a ranking among all players if you've played enough snaps. So if I rank 73.1 I might rank as the 24th best at my position. If you play the same position and rank 80.3 you might rank as the 10th best at that position.

So our CB's ratings were in the low 60's and then when you rank that rating among all players at that position...there were in the 50's and 60's meaning there were 50+/60+ CB's rated higher than them. With 2 starters at each position per team...that's not good.

They list Hubbard among the DI's.

[jfkbengals]

(11-04-2018, 12:23 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I meant 50's and 60's in the ranking of players from 1 to how many there are. You get a rating based on your play. And then that rating gets a ranking among all players if you've played enough snaps.

So our CB's ratings were in the low 60's and then when you rank that rating among all players...there were in the 50's and 60's meaning there were 50+ CB's rated higher than them.

They list Hubbard among the DI's.

Understood that I misunderstood :andy:

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-04-2018, 12:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yeah...I suspect the players don't fit the scheme well and the scheme just doesn't work against good QB's who know the hot read.

For instance, some CB's are better in Man than Zone.

Our LB's...I don't really know what to say there. I think Burfict may not be able to thrive in a league that takes his physicality away. Honestly, I look for him to get a lifetime ban eventually anyways...so we likely need to move on from him whether we want to or not.

IF the Raiders did actually try to trade for him, we should have done it in a second.

I think Burfict is a lot closer to the end of his playing days than he is the middle. Concussions, injuries, and just the fact that he's had so few games in the last few seasons has taken a toll on his playing shape.

If he's got one or two good years left he will be flying I'd say, if he doesn't get kicked out of the league ? 

I was really hoping for him to be a big impact when he returned but it doesn't look like it's gonna be that way.

[*Go Cards*]

Billings has been playing better as of late but surprised he is graded that high.

Surprised Dennard is ranked that low as well, feels he was playing well when healthy.

[Luvnit2]

(11-04-2018, 12:14 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: It's really a chicken/egg thing.

Are the players bad and underperforming? Or is the scheme and/or playcalling the issue?

What I do know is we have 3 1st Round CB's and a dominant Defensive Line.

This is what I see, I see way too many missed tackles (100% on players), I see mistakes in responsibility (could be coaching or could be player) and I see a DL that can't hold the line of scrimmage (I say more player than coach).

My point though was I see fans blame some whipping boys players, but more often than not they excuse our high paid stars. Dunlap, Dre, Burfict and Dunlap are our high paid guys. Only 1 is playing to his contract according to PFF, that is hard to overcome by any coach (DC or head coach).

[fredtoast]

(11-04-2018, 09:38 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I find it interesting looking at the numbers most fans blame Austin, but according to the numbers, it is the players under performing on defense.

Dennard, Jackson, and Kirkpatrick have all been very effective in the past.

When one player underperforms it is a player issue, when every player underperforms then it is a coaching problem.

[J24]

Jackson is playing good football latley his number will only get higher. Also it's important to note that Vigil and Vontaz haven't played that much together. That's and undderrated story around here.

[McC]

(11-04-2018, 10:51 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: ^This^

I very strongly feel there's a lot of confusion among our DB's and backers in pass coverage. Whether it's last second audibles they're not getting, the overall plan is to complicated, they have multiple responsibilities and don't understand which one to go to for what ? I dunno ?

But you can tell they're not on the same page on several plays.

Is just bad play part of it to ? sure

But I feel not being on the same page contributes greatly to the "bad play" they're just not buying into the system.

If this is the case, our players must not be very bright because opposing OC's have had little to no difficulty in figuring our defense out.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-04-2018, 02:52 PM)McC Wrote: If this is the case, our players must not be very bright because opposing OC's have had little to no difficulty in figuring our defense out.

I don't know what the problem is, all I know is it's a very big and bad one.

Typically when this is the case it's not just one thing there's a multitude of problems. That would be my real guess E. all the above

[*Synric*]

(11-04-2018, 01:01 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: OT but that was a crazy win for WV tonight. Your coach might look like Big Ern McCracken, but man he’s got a set of balls on him lol

(11-04-2018, 12:04 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Gutsy call to go for 2. How about Texas calling TO right before the 1st 2 point conversion?

What a great game!

WVU needed that win to put then back in the Big 12 title race...

Crazy to think if WVU hadn't lost to Iowa State a few weeks ago they would be a top 5 team.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-04-2018, 12:56 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: This is what I see, I see way too many missed tackles (100% on players), I see mistakes in responsibility (could be coaching or could be player) and I see a DL that can't hold the line of scrimmage (I say more player than coach).

My point though was I see fans blame some whipping boys players, but more often than not they excuse our high paid stars. Dunlap, Dre, Burfict and Dunlap are our high paid guys. Only 1 is playing to his contract according to PFF, that is hard to overcome by any coach (DC or head coach).

I'd say Atkins and Dunlap are playing up to their contract.

Kirkpatrick and Burfict...probably not. MJ...definitely not. Preston Brown...probably not.

100% with you on the missed tackles.

For whatever reason...we seem to be a better team without Burfict when he plays like this.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-04-2018, 03:58 PM)Synric Wrote: WVU needed that win to put then back in the Big 12 title race...

Crazy to think if WVU hadn't lost to Iowa State a few weeks ago they would be a top 5 team.

I was actually in a restaurant that had a bunch of WVU fans watching that game.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-04-2018, 01:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Dennard, Jackson, and Kirkpatrick have all been very effective in the past.

When one player underperforms it is a player issue, when every player underperforms then it is a coaching problem.

Exactly! Like in the playoffs...

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-04-2018, 07:15 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Exactly! Like in the playoffs...

https://tenor.com/view/drop-mic-gif-4484642

mic drop

[*michaelsean*]

(11-04-2018, 09:38 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I find it interesting looking at the numbers most fans blame Austin, but according to the numbers, it is the players under performing on defense.

I don’t think you can have one without the other. If your defense is doing poorly then the defenders are going to be rated low.

[THE PISTONS]

Yep. And in Primetime games in general. You're generally playing really good teams who have good coaches and QB's. Those teams know how to exploit your weaknesses.