Indy game thoughts

[Stormborn]

(09-04-2015, 01:52 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: I just posted video evidence.


Here's how you rush the passer: 
 Swat the hands, dip the shoulder, bend the edge

As quick as CC was there, Paul just exploded through the a gap.

Wow.

[RoyleRedlegs]

Your post won't show up in quotes 3wt, but it is a factor this year, how is it not? Your logic on that one escapes me. 
People were giving him credit for adding good weight not sloppy weight. And he has looked stouter. He has to get better obviously, but it's a small improvement but an improvement none the less. 

[*Synric*]

(09-04-2015, 02:03 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Care to discuss any of this? 

Or are you just having fun strawmanning? 

1. In the backfield QB makes a very nice play....not like he wasn't there though.
2. 3 step drop and a quick pass right? Had it been a longer developing play...
3. He had the inside gap which he was in Lewis Harris and the linebacker had the outside gap. Would have been an amazing play by hunt in the inside gap with the OT on his outside shoulder keeping him from stretching that arm.
4. Double teamed first by the OT then the TE.
5. Hunt initially won but the TE had a nice recovery great play by the TE.
6. Hunt made a backside tackle and Dawson stonewalled the RB. That was a positive play by both defenders.
7. Beat the OT and missed the tackle in the backfield positive and negative.
8. Nice rush by Carter definitely talented at it but what about playing 3 down linebacker or as a 3 down DE. More to football than pass rushing. can he hold up against the run as a DE? Can he drop and cover TEs and slot receivers as a 4-3 OLB?

[Luvnit2]

(09-04-2015, 01:59 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: Why is age not a consideration? Stop throwing out a very big factor in this. 

No neither of them will be very good. Especially at rushing the passer. No bend. 
But Clarke has shown some progress and is 4 years younger. 

Hunt's flashes are an illusion. 

I would say age is a factor.

But anyone thinking a 28 year old DE is old is very wrong. Look around the league and I see many DE's in their 30"s. I see many OL in their 30"s.

I think maybe that is the bigger issue.

[RoyleRedlegs]

(09-04-2015, 02:19 PM)Synric Wrote: 1. In the backfield QB makes a very nice play....not like he wasn't there though.
2. 3 step drop and a quick pass right? Had it been a longer developing play...
3. He had the inside gap which he was in Lewis Harris and the linebacker had the outside gap. Would have been an amazing play by hunt in the inside gap with the OT on his outside shoulder keeping him from stretching that arm.
4. Double teamed first by the OT then the TE.
5. Hunt initially won but the TE had a nice recovery great play by the TE.
6. Hunt made a backside tackle and Dawson stonewalled the RB. That was a positive play by both defenders.
7. Beat the OT and missed the tackle in the backfield positive and negative.
8. Nice rush by Carter definitely talented at it but what about playing 3 down linebacker or as a 3 down DE. More to football than pass rushing. can he hold up against the run as a DE? Can he drop and cover TEs and slot receivers as a 4-3 OLB?

1. Oh lord....it wasn't very nice. It was a bad play by the DE
2. Horse shoes and hand grenades.
3. That's poor gap discipline. He got completely washed out. 
4. OT never blocks him.
5. Wasn't great, but didn't have to be. Hunt has to stop and think what to do.
6. Unblocked. That's my point. His good plays are largely this variety.
7. That was a TE. Nice try though. 
8. That's why they make subpackages. Carter only has to contribute on passing downs to be valuable. It's the most important thing a defender can do right now. If Carter only sees 10 snaps as a pure pass rusher a week,  that's a win. 

[RoyleRedlegs]

(09-04-2015, 02:20 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I would say age is a factor.

But anyone thinking a 28 year old DE is old is very wrong. Look around the league and I see many DE's in their 30"s. I see many OL in their 30"s.

I think maybe that is the bigger issue.

And how many of them are good? How many of them are not in the "twilight" of their careers

[djs7685]

(09-04-2015, 02:19 PM)Synric Wrote: 1. In the backfield QB makes a very nice play....not like he wasn't there though.
2. 3 step drop and a quick pass right? Had it been a longer developing play...
3. He had the inside gap which he was in Lewis Harris and the linebacker had the outside gap. Would have been an amazing play by hunt in the inside gap with the OT on his outside shoulder keeping him from stretching that arm.
4. Double teamed first by the OT then the TE.
5. Hunt initially won but the TE had a nice recovery great play by the TE.
6. Hunt made a backside tackle and Dawson stonewalled the RB. That was a positive play by both defenders.
7. Beat the OT and missed the tackle in the backfield positive and negative.
8. Nice rush by Carter definitely talented at it but what about playing 3 down linebacker or as a 3 down DE. More to football than pass rushing. can he hold up against the run as a DE? Can he drop and cover TEs and slot receivers as a 4-3 OLB?

Wow. just when I thought those vines would have solidified Hunt's play yesterday....

Do you realize how ridiculous you're sounding trying to make every negative play seem like a positive? The spinning here is entirely out of control. There is video proof in this very thread of Hunt looking like the same big DE with no technique that he always has, and your absurd interpretations aren't making those videos go away.

Posts like this are proof that if someone has a preconceived bias, they can spin ANYTHING to make it fit their agenda. Holy shit, this is absolutely unreal reading through your interpretations of those plays again.

[Luvnit2]

(09-04-2015, 02:25 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: And how many of them are good? How many of them are not in the "twilight" of their careers

There are many examples in the NFL of late bloomers.

Kurt Warner
James Harrison
Tom Brady

These are all guys who showed zero promise or were not in the NFL around age 28.

To me, age for Hunt is not a factor right now. Who is better right now? For those of you who say Hardison or Williams, they have done their great plays strictly against 3rd and 4th stringers so to project them to be great is still a reach. They are also both rookies learning our defense which also takes time.

I like the young guys, but I am not sold Hunt is a bust as you are trying to portray.

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-04-2015, 02:24 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: 1. Oh lord....it wasn't very nice. It was a bad play by the DE
2. Horse shoes and hand grenades.
3. That's poor gap discipline. He got completely washed out. 
4. OT never blocks him.
5. Wasn't great, but didn't have to be. Hunt has to stop and think what to do.
6. Unblocked. That's my point. His good plays are largely this variety.
7. That was a TE. Nice try though. 
8. That's why they make subpackages. Carter only has to contribute on passing downs to be valuable. It's the most important thing a defender can do right now. If Carter only sees 10 snaps as a pure pass rusher a week,  that's a win. 

How anyone can watch Hunt play and not see his football instincts are awful is beyond me ?? Add in the fact that his technique is almost as bad and you have an already older DE with nothing to offer other than being a serviceable backup.

Why cut younger, way more upside guys in favor of a project that doesn't have the time to pan out ?

Dumbfounding

[3wt]

(09-03-2015, 11:48 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: 1. Tate saved his job because they don't have the stones to actually try an upgrade. He's still terrible returning punts.

2. Hunt still has no clue what he's doing. He can out-muscle bad players. That's about it.

3. Wilder is not making it to the PS. He will get claimed or should be on the 53.

4. Chris Carter is good. He has speed, bend and knows how to work his hands.

5. Trey Hopkins still doesn't have that power back in his legs. (Like Geno last year)

6. Keo is not a thinking man's football player. WTF was he doing trying to run it out?

7. Dawson is unreal. Dude is good at football.

8. Kroft is gonna be good. The fumble was on an illegal hit.

9. Bengals are going to have to get creative to fit all the right guys on the roster. Need to knock of this loyalty BS.

Agree with pretty much all of this, though I hold on to the hope that Hunt could bloom.  I understand why they'll keep Peerman, but I think Wilder is the better player.  But you're right, loyalty is too heavily weighted in the coaches judgment.

And I think that Bodine continues to look terrible, as does Fisher.  Hopkins is not what he was pre-injury, and our back up tackle situation is tragic - ironic seeing as we took two high round tackles.

[Stormborn]

(09-04-2015, 02:30 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: There are many examples in the NFL of late bloomers.

Kurt Warner
James Harrison
Tom Brady

These are all guys who showed zero promise or were not in the NFL around age 28.

To me, age for Hunt is not a factor right now. Who is better right now? For those of you who say Hardison or Williams, they have done their great plays strictly against 3rd and 4th stringers so to project them to be great is still a reach. They are also both rookies learning our defense which also takes time.

I like the young guys, but I am not sold Hunt is a bust as you are trying to portray.

[Luvnit2]

(09-04-2015, 02:29 PM)djs7685 Wrote: Wow. just when I thought those vines would have solidified Hunt's play yesterday....

Do you realize how ridiculous you're sounding trying to make every negative play seem like a positive? The spinning here is entirely out of control. There is video proof in this very thread of Hunt looking like the same big DE with no technique that he always has, and your absurd interpretations aren't making those videos go away.

Posts like this are proof that if someone has a preconceived bias, they can spin ANYTHING to make it fit their agenda. Holy shit, this is absolutely unreal reading through your interpretations of those plays again.

Come on DJ

One play

We can demonize every NFL player using 1 video. Should we just use the one video yesterday where McCarron failed to recognize the defense, he was sacked and fumbled?

I say no as AJ's work is more than one play in one game and to act otherwise is just plain stupid.

[Luvnit2]

(09-04-2015, 02:31 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: How anyone can watch Hunt play and not see his football instincts are awful is beyond me ?? Add in the fact that his technique is almost as bad and you have an already older DE with nothing to offer other than being a serviceable backup.

Why cut younger, way more upside guys in favor of a project that doesn't have the time to pan out ?

Dumbfounding

Soon we will see if you are correct if the coaches cut Hunt.

If not, maybe the dummy needs to look in the mirror

[djs7685]

(09-04-2015, 02:30 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: There are many examples in the NFL of late bloomers.

Kurt Warner
James Harrison
Tom Brady

These are all guys who showed zero promise or were not in the NFL around age 28.

To me, age for Hunt is not a factor right now. Who is better right now? For those of you who say Hardison or Williams, they have done their great plays strictly against 3rd and 4th stringers so to project them to be great is still a reach. They are also both rookies learning our defense which also takes time.

I like the young guys, but I am not sold Hunt is a bust as you are trying to portray.

Dude, what are you even talking about? You're going to use a QB with 3 Super Bowl rings by the time he was 28 years old as an example of why Margus Hunt can transform into a good DE past 28 years old?

What is happening right now?

(09-04-2015, 02:32 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Come on DJ

One play

We can demonize every NFL player using 1 video. Should we just use the one video yesterday where McCarron failed to recognize the defense, he was sacked and fumbled?

I say no as AJ's work is more than one play in one game and to act otherwise is just plain stupid.

In which universe is 8 plays 1 play?

WTF? Are you on something right now? Your last few posts have made little to zero sense.

[Stormborn]

(09-04-2015, 02:34 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Soon we will see if you are correct if the coaches cut Hunt.

If not, maybe the dummy needs to look in the mirror

Nobody will be surprised when Hunt is on the team, I'm expecting the mistake to be made. They can't let go of their mistakes very easily and deserving players get punished for it. 

[*Synric*]

(09-04-2015, 02:24 PM)RoyleRedlegs Wrote: 1. Oh lord....it wasn't very nice. It was a bad play by the DE
2. Horse shoes and hand grenades.
3. That's poor gap discipline. He got completely washed out. 
4. OT never blocks him.
5. Wasn't great, but didn't have to be. Hunt has to stop and think what to do.
6. Unblocked. That's my point. His good plays are largely this variety.
7. That was a TE. Nice try though. 
8. That's why they make subpackages. Carter only has to contribute on passing downs to be valuable. It's the most important thing a defender can do right now. If Carter only sees 10 snaps as a pure pass rusher a week,  that's a win. 

1. He was there I've seen Dunlap miss quite a few of those too. Offensive players make plays too.
3. He was not washed out he was inside his gap rushing right and tried to make a play back to the left hell of a lot harder than you think.
4. You are right TE got him I see it was BT that got initially hit by the tackle and came back for hunt who also was pushing on that inside gap.
5. Hunt initially won and the TE made a nice recovery offensive players make great plays too.
6. It was a backside play he wasn't in front of it...that was an excellent play by Hunt saying it was bad is very telling.
7. Yes TE still won still there missed the tackle...like I said positive and negative.

Carter still has to be able to play in the base defense like Gillberry. how can you chance him on the field if he can't play whatever position he subbed for on the field. Don't get me wrong I want him and maybe they can teach him to play some linebacker but until then he's still a liability.

[djs7685]

(09-04-2015, 02:34 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Soon we will see if you are correct if the coaches cut Hunt.

If not, maybe the dummy needs to look in the mirror

This would make sense if the team made the correct decisions 100% of the time.

Hunt will likely make the team. Hunt shouldn't make the team.

Meh. bengalfan74 isn't a "dummy" because of that. I'd say that title should be held for a guy that's trying to use a 3 time Super Bowl winning QB by the age of 28 as a reason why Margus Hunt could develop into a good DE by 28, but hey, that's just me and that silly thing called logic.

[Luvnit2]

(09-04-2015, 02:39 PM)djs7685 Wrote: This would make sense if the team made the correct decisions 100% of the time.

Hunt will likely make the team. Hunt shouldn't make the team.

Meh. bengalfan74 isn't a "dummy" because of that. I'd say that title should be held for a guy that's trying to use a 3 time Super Bowl winning QB by the age of 28 as a reason why Margus Hunt could develop into a good DE by 28, but hey, that's just me and that silly thing called logic.

You understand my point about Brady, he didn't beat out anyone, he was not starting until Bledsoe gets hurt. He took the opportunity and the rest is history.

Brady was a bad example, but I see you ignored the other two Warner and Harrison.

My point about being dumbfounded is simple. It is one thing for a mistake to be made by ML on a tough cut decision. It is another if a person is dumbfounded the person was even considered and what alone makes the team.

[*bengalfan74*]

(09-04-2015, 02:34 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Soon we will see if you are correct if the coaches cut Hunt.

If not, maybe the dummy needs to look in the mirror

Luvnit like DJS says just because Hunt isn't cut by this staff doesn't mean he shouldn't be. In fact if I had to bet right now I'd bet he makes it. It's a well proven fact that this staff hates to admit a mistake and hangs on way to long. Add in 2nd round pick and they really don't want to admit failure.

I make no claim to being a football genius. But (at this point) I see little to no upside with Hunt, he's most likely not going to get much better. The "football instinct" just isn't there. Like we see in Carter and Dawson as examples.

Call me a dummy all you want but if you sit the rose colored glasses down you can see Hunt isn't all that !

[djs7685]

(09-04-2015, 02:46 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: You understand my point about Brady, he did beat out anyone, he was not starting until Bledsoe gets hurt. He took the opportunity and the rest is history.

Brady was a bad example, but I see you ignored the other two Warner and Harrison.

My point about being dumbfounded is simple. It is one thing for a mistake to be made by ML on a tough cut decision. It is another if a person is dumbfounded the person was even considered and what alone makes the team.

Brady was a terrible example, especially since he has nothing to do with what a DE can do at that age.

I didn't "ignore" the other 2, I just found the Brady comparison to be hilarious since he won 3 Super Bowls by the time you claimed those 3 guys weren't in the league or "showed zero promise". I don't know, your words, not mine.

Kurt Warner led the league in TD passes at 28.
James Harrison was seeing play time in Pittsburgh at 28.
Tom Brady won 3 Super Bowls by 28.

I'm sorry, I disagree with your assessment that those guys all showed "zero promise" or weren't in the league at 28. All of them were in the league, so I'm not sure why you even included that portion of your statement.

None of these guys have ANYTHING to do with Margus Hunt though, so I don't even know why I'm wasting time with this. Pointless argument is pointless. It's impossible to project Hunt's career based on any of those players. If you could show me some "project picks" that were 4-3 DEs that started to catch on after turning 28, then you'd be onto something.