"They stood around killing grass"

[bengalsturntup926]

(11-07-2018, 03:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I go so far as to say that is the silliest thing I ever heard.

You think he got that 5 yr $60 million contract because he wasn't good anymore?

Remember the arguments you had defending paul alexander lol

[fredtoast]

(11-07-2018, 03:28 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Remember the arguments you had defending paul alexander lol

My arguments were correct.  Alexander was a very effective O-line coach for many years.  People all over the league agree.  But after the selections and development of Bodine, Ogbuehi, and Fisher he had to go.

[sandwedge]

(11-07-2018, 03:24 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I go so far as to say that is the silliest thing I ever heard.

You think he got that 5 yr $60 million contract because he wasn't good anymore?

He wasn't good in Paul's pussyfoot blocking scheme....

[bengalsturntup926]

(11-07-2018, 03:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: My arguments were correct.  Alexander was a very effective O-line coach for many years.  People all over the league agree.  But after the selections and development of Bodine, Ogbuehi, and Fisher he had to go.

Yeah dallas agrees with you too.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-07-2018, 11:51 AM)Whatever Wrote: In fairness, Bob Bratkowski's offense put a lot of strain on the OL.  I've seen an interview where he admits that everyone usually knew what play they were running.  The other team just didn't have the talent to stop them.  

It's still a bit surprising to me that Lazor won that power struggle.  Personally, I think MB balked at giving Whit a multi year deal because Paul told him that the T position was set with Og and Fisher.  When it turned out like it did, he was furious. 

That's a good point about Brat.  Just shows how talented that team was for a brief time.

It is surprising, but I'm damn sure glad he won that battle.  That's a very interesting premise you have there concerning MB, Whit, and PM.....you might be onto something there.  One's thing for sure, something must have set him off to finally part ways.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-07-2018, 03:35 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Yeah dallas agrees with you too.

The term overrated comes to mind.....big D found out the hard way.

[McC]

(11-07-2018, 03:30 PM)fredtoast Wrote: My arguments were correct.  Alexander was a very effective O-line coach for many years.  People all over the league agree.  But after the selections and development of Bodine, Ogbuehi, and Fisher he had to go.

But that league wide respect ended at least five years before you stopped defending him.

[fredtoast]

(11-07-2018, 03:41 PM)McC Wrote: But that league wide respect ended at least five years before you stopped defending him.

In 2016 Sports Illustrated selected him as the best offensive line coach in the league.

In 2015 they did a feature article on him where coaches from other teams praised him and it was pointed out that the Bengals had the best pass protection O-line dating back to the time PFF started ranking them.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

SI has been wrong before...... :andy:

[McC]

(11-07-2018, 03:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: In 2016 Sports Illustrated selected him as the best offensive line coach in the league.

In 2015 they did a feature article on him where coaches from other teams praised him and it was pointed out that the Bengals had the best pass protection O-line dating back to the time PFF started ranking them.

2016?  You mean that season where the Bengals didn't score a TD for three weeks, where Dalton was sacked seven times on opening day, where the running game couldn't do squat until Lazor took the run game away from PA?  That season?

Actually, that was last year, not 2016. Oh well, shows you how spot on SI was.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-07-2018, 03:53 PM)McC Wrote: 2016?  You mean that season where the Bengals didn't score a TD for three weeks, where Dalton was sacked seven times on opening day, where the running game couldn't do squat until Lazor took the run game away from PA?  That season?

To be fair, they still couldn't run the ball well into the 2017 season, which was the season they didn't score until 3 weeks.....which was when Lazor told him to sit down and shut up.


(but yes, you are correct on the rest.)

[I_C_DeadPeople]

Keep in mind that coaches are never bad mouthed while employed and rarely afterwords either. It is a small world they live in and no one can afford to bad mouth their own or their GM's or owners.

Many coaches have good runs and then they fall behind how the league moves. PA deserves credit for some of the good line play from the past but he deserves the blame for the recent drafting and play of the OL.

[samhain]

Alexander needed to go, no doubt. If what Lap says is true, it calls into question any view of the powers that be on this team becoming more accepting of making changes when needed.

Despite all of that, I think the caliber of talent that came in on the line from 2013 on was just as much of an issue as the tone of PA's practices. Bodine was trash. Legit, bonafide trash. All anyone defending him could ever say was that he started a bunch of games. Yay.

Then you had the 2015 draft, which I'll always contend was the main factor in necessitating a semi-rebuild. It was a big hole in the dam that just kept getting bigger as they took time to realize just how bad the first two picks in that draft really were. I think PA takes a ton of responsibility for that draft, as he allegedly "stood on the table" for Ced and Fisher. That said, if they had even half-competent players drafted on the line that year, this team is probably a step or two ahead of where they are right now.

Think about it. We have a first and a second round pick on the roster right now sitting behind a street free agent who was cut midseason last year. That's shitty right there. They bring absolutely nothing to the team.

I think Paul's biggest fault isn't necessarily his approach to teaching or practice, but his odd decision to go from massive, powerful offensive tackles to smaller, basketball-player looking guys like Fisher and Ced. He's running the same system that he succeeded with minus the kind of players that he knew were needed to have success. It was always strange to me and it obviously didn't work.

[GodFather]

What does that say about the organization keeping him around so long?

And people argue how they want to win and be competitive? Hardly..

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(11-07-2018, 04:45 PM)GodFather Wrote: What does that say about the organization keeping him around so long?

And people argue how they want to win and be competitive? Hardly..

It only confirms what has become painfully obvious to almost everyone (maybe not Fred). This team from the top down is not built to win, it is barely built to be competitive. 

[Fan_in_Kettering]

It only took Jerry Jones eight weeks to discover what Mike Brown couldn’t admit for a quarter of a century.

[GodFather]

(11-07-2018, 04:54 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: It only confirms what has become painfully obvious to almost everyone (maybe not Fred). This team from the top down is not built to win, it is barely built to be competitive. 

Thats his M.O. If everyone posted how good piano man was in the past he would come up with a post on how bad he has been. 

[HarleyDog]

(11-07-2018, 03:38 PM)Wyche Wrote: The term overrated comes to mind.....big D found out the hard way.

So in a nutshell. Big D got the Big D when they hired him.

[fredtoast]

(11-07-2018, 04:45 PM)GodFather Wrote: What does that say about the organization keeping him around so long?

And people argue how they want to win and be competitive? Hardly..

They kept him around all those years because he was good.  They kept him around because they felt he gave them the best chance to win. 

(11-07-2018, 03:49 PM)fredtoast Wrote: In 2016 Sports Illustrated selected him as the best offensive line coach in the league.

In 2015 they did a feature article on him where coaches from other teams praised him and it was pointed out that the Bengals had the best pass protection O-line dating back to the time PFF started ranking them.

[bengalhoel]

(11-07-2018, 04:59 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: It only took Jerry Jones eight weeks to discover what Mike Brown couldn’t admit for a quarter of a century.

That is the scariest thing about this whole mess because Jerry Jones is just a louder version of Mike Brown. He is just as stubborn and hard headed.