The Steelers are just better than the Bengals

[*Synric*]

(11-09-2018, 11:59 AM)Au165 Wrote: Good point, I thought we were two years away from playoff contention and I think the quick start skewed a lot of people's expectations. I feel like 9 games was kind of the ceiling coming in to the year and that is still attainable and a good place to be after being a top 10 pick and the 12th pick the last two years.

They also drastically dropped the overall age of the team. They have a lot of young guys that are developing as the season continues. 

Reminds me of 2012...right before that great 2013 season.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(11-09-2018, 11:39 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: The Bengals basically gave up an entire draft in 2015. Uzama, Kroft, and Shaw are the only guys to somewhat contribute from that draft and all of them are just meh. 

2015 was a terrible draft, its killing them now. Other than that, though....they have been OK recently. Still too early to completely tell. 

The fact that ONE draft can *Kill* a team speaks to how poorly the personnel on the team is gathered and managed. Drafting is an important piece of the puzzle but only one piece. As has been noted, the Steelers coach and scheme far better than the Bengals. We all hate the bug eyed Tomlin, but his teams have proven to out perform deer eyed Marvins. 

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(11-09-2018, 12:02 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: The Bengals off season finally showed some signs of righting the wrongs by signing Glenn. The good/great teams like the Pats or Steelers seem to find that missing safety (Mitchell years ago or missing TE like McDonald) or Pats getting Gordon, Patterson and McCourty. They analyze weakness faster and then fix it.

Gee, 16 years or so later we are finally 'moving' in the right direction. Or better to say we have turned TO the right direction but not moving yet. By the time the team starts to move the league will be in another direction. 

[*Synric*]

As far as drafting goes the Bengals are one of the best if not THE best team in this catagorey.

To start the 2018 season the Bengals had 58 drafted players playing across the league which was the most in the NFL. The Ravens were second with 45...That's almost 2 full drafts of players more than second place. The league average was 38 that means the Bengals were just shy of 3 full drafts of players in the NFL than the league average.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(11-09-2018, 12:03 PM)I_C_DeadPeople Wrote: The fact that ONE draft can *Kill* a team speaks to how poorly the personnel on the team is gathered and managed. Drafting is an important piece of the puzzle but only one piece. As has been noted, the Steelers coach and scheme far better than the Bengals. We all hate the bug eyed Tomlin, but his teams have proven to out perform deer eyed Marvins.

That’s a pretty low bar. I don’t think Tomlin is all that great. With the talent he’s had over the years he should have won more than 1 SB. Even with the Pats dominance during his tenure. I like his aggressiveness, but I don’t think he has much control over his locker room. I wonder what Belichick could have done with some of those teams...

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(11-09-2018, 12:03 PM)Synric Wrote: They also drastically dropped the overall age of the team. They have a lot of young guys that are developing as the season continues. 

Reminds me of 2012...right before that great 2013 season.

And two years from now we will likely say 'well that 2017 draft did not work out as well as hoped but the 2020 draftees show promise'. It is the endless cycle of hope for the Bengals. 

[Big Boss]

Of course they are better. You can hate the team with a burning passion and still recognize the simple truth of the matter.

Having said that, I am curious what the team will look like once they lose their HOF QB. Of course, knowing our luck Mason Rudolph will come in and lay waste to everyone.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-09-2018, 12:08 PM)Synric Wrote: As far as drafting goes the Bengals are one of the best if not THE best team in this catagorey.

To start the 2018 season the Bengals had 58 drafted players playing across the league which was the most in the NFL. The Ravens were second with 45...That's almost 2 full drafts of players more than second plays. The league average was 38 that means the Bengals were just shy of 3 full drafts full of players in the NFL than the league average.

The blatant disregard for right side of OL shows that the team (falsely) had confidence that they could get good play there with the players they had and/or brought in through FA (Hart). Hopefully they realize by the end of this year that they made a mistake and then address it properly this coming March/April.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(11-09-2018, 12:11 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The blatant disregard for right side of OL shows that the team (falsely) had confidence that they could get good play there with the players they had and/or brought in through FA (Hart). Hopefully they realize by the end of this year that they made a mistake and then address it properly this coming March/April.

Finger in the dyke while two new holes pop out

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(11-09-2018, 12:11 PM)Big Boss Wrote: Of course they are better.  You can hate the team with a burning passion and still recognize the simple truth of the matter.  

Having said that, I am curious what the team will look like once they lose their HOF QB.  Of course, knowing our luck Mason Rudolph will come in and lay waste to everyone.

Take away any high level QB from a team and it changes the team. But at least they drafted one and he had a HOF like career for them. And they surrounded him with other good players and someone 'magically' did it all with the same salary cap as the Bengals had..go figure. Jen may play another 5 years , who knows, by then we will be looking for a new QB as well (and three LB's and a RT)

[*Synric*]

(11-09-2018, 12:11 PM)ochocincos Wrote: The blatant disregard for right side of OL shows that the team (falsely) had confidence that they could get good play there with the players they had and/or brought in through FA (Hart). Hopefully they realize by the end of this year that they made a mistake and then address it properly this coming March/April.

I've been complaining about how they've handled the tackle position for a while now. They have 1 tackle under contract at the end of this season and no reason to sign any of the other 3. They should have got a guy to develop out of one of the last two drafts. Instead of rolling with Eric Winston from what 2015 to 2017?

[fortyyearfan]

(11-09-2018, 11:25 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: It pains me to say this, but the Steelers have just been better than the Bengals in every phase of football and from an organizational standpoint over the past few years.

Of course they beat us on the field, but they are also drafting and getting better players and have better systems and schemes on the field. Thats what really worries me. Their offensive line was built over the past few years to be one of the best in the NFL, ours has fallen flat on its face. They reloaded at receiver with JuJu, Jesse James, and now Vance McDonald. We have John Ross who has serious durability and ability concerns. Their best offensive player decides he doesnt want to play so they plug in a rookie James Connor who is tearing it up.

Their defense is rounding into form and is taking off...ours is self destructing. Someone in that organization is doing a hell of a job with player personnel and scouting because that team just continues to reload and get it right while we continue to tread water.

This isn't a thread to build the Steelers up, its a thread to compare. The Steelers are going to be REAAAALLY good up until they lose the stability of Ben at QB and even after that im not sure that they don't go out and somehow find another HOF QB to replace him.

To all of us long suffering bengals fans,how does it really feel to know in your heart of hearts that the steelers are going to out right win the division again,they will kill us last game of season and embarrass us once more and they will be in the super bowl AGAIN.I hope that is sinking in to all of us once more after 50 years,me,I been with this team for 48 years the year I got home from Vietnam,by the way I am a former decorated veteran,received the BRONZE STAR IN OCTOBER OF 1967. I HAVE seen it all,been there and done that. For me,I just want a super bowl victory for my team,the Cincinnati Bengals football team,and my way of thinking is until we get out of this division we will NEVER see that in my lifetime. We have 4 players that are still rehabbing because of the pissburg beat down at our house.its just maddening.

[Bengalitis]

Our division has been like this the last decade or so...

Steelers at top and Browns at bottom, Bengals in the middle and Ravens all over the place from top to bottom of us.

[I_C_DeadPeople]

(11-09-2018, 12:21 PM)fortyyearfan Wrote: To all of us long suffering bengals fans,how does it really feel to know in your heart of hearts that the steelers are going to out right win the division again,they will kill us last game of season and embarrass us once more and they will be in the super bowl AGAIN.I hope that is sinking in to all of us once more after 50 years,me,I been with this team for 48 years the year I got home from Vietnam,by the way I am a former decorated veteran,received the BRONZE STAR IN OCTOBER OF 1967. I HAVE seen it all,been there and done that. For me,I just want a super bowl victory for my team,the Cincinnati Bengals football team,and my way of thinking is until we get out of this division we will NEVER see that in my lifetime. We have 4 players that are still rehabbing because of the pissburg beat down at our house.its just maddening.

It pains me to say it, but the 'hate' we have for the Steelers is misplaced. We should hate Mike Brown, the Steelers do an excellent job of trying to win a championship every year, we do not. So the typical Bengal fan is really jealous of their success and the lack of ours. 

Don't blame the refs, or the Steelers or the league. Put the blame where it belongs. 

BTW, even as a Canadian, thank you for your service. I just watched the Ken Burns documentary on the Vietnam War and it is a shame that the soldiers were often blamed for the actions of the government and a double shame on how the vets have been treated afterwords. 

All the best to you Sir. 

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-09-2018, 11:38 AM)Luvnit2 Wrote: I agree, it all starts in the trenches and OL and DL of the Steelers is better than our 2 lines.

That, it isn't.

You can say their front 7 is better, but not Dline.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-09-2018, 11:50 AM)WeezyBengal Wrote: It's Ben, the offensive line, the weapons he has at receiver, the offensive scheme, and their defense (which has been playing MUCH better as of late). It's more than just Ben. Dude had an eternity to throw last night. You put Andy in that pocket with those weapons on the outside and he has 5 TDs. 

Right.  You put just about any QB in that situation, and they will thrive.  I'm not trying to discredit Pig Pen, but when you have time to scan the field for even a 5th option, you're going to have a good night.  It's not like they were playing a scrub defense either.  So many are quick to brush off the effect of a dominate oline....when, in fact, it's the catalyst for success.  Look at the lines Montana played behind, look at the times Brady stands back there for 6 seconds or more....DBs can't cover people forever.  After watching last night, it makes me wonder how in the hell we held them to 28 points.

Also, let us not forget the times he lays an egg and throws multiple picks and is off target even with that line.

[thillan]

(11-09-2018, 12:34 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: That, it isn't.

You can say their front 7 is better, but not Dline.

Does it matter? They disrupt a game more often than we do.

Yeah, I no longer think we have more talent on the field. I actually think this team does really well drafting talent, but is not great at all at using it to produce to it's potential.

Also, I think Tomlin is underrated in the NFL in terms of being a coach. The turmoil and drama he's had to endure this season, on top of the massive amounts of negativity and pressure from the slow start, and he turns the ship around and does this. They just dropped 50+ on a REALLY good Carolina defense. And their defense is playing pretty well now too. 

Meanwhile, here we are again, heading straight for another scratch-and-claw fight for a playoff birth, and losing our best players in a key stretch of the schedule.

Two organizations with two different mindsets. One just wants to play to be competitive and fight, and one wants to win a SB every year.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-09-2018, 12:01 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I don’t believe in long rebuilds in the NFL. You can go from bad to contender quicker than any other sport. Look at the Eagles and Rams.

.....who changed coaches.....

[thillan]

(11-09-2018, 12:47 PM)Wyche Wrote: Right.  You put just about any QB in that situation, and they will thrive.  I'm not trying to discredit Pig Pen, but when you have time to scan the field for even a 5th option, you're going to have a good night.  It's not like they were playing a scrub defense either.  So many are quick to brush off the effect of a dominate oline....when, in fact, it's the catalyst for success.  Look at the lines Montana played behind, look at the times Brady stands back there for 6 seconds or more....DBs can't cover people forever.  After watching last night, it makes me wonder how in the hell we held them to 28 points.

Also, let us not forget the times he lays an egg and throws multiple picks and is off target even with that line.

Yep. As exciting as this new version of the NFL is right now, it still happens because of dominant offensive lines. Rams, Chiefs, Saints, Pittsburgh.. they all can protect. And more importantly, they seem to protect extremely well in key moments in the game. 

Ours does look much better though, but we still have a ways to go and a few pieces to add before we become a dominant O-line.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-09-2018, 12:50 PM)thillan Wrote: Yep. As exciting as this new version of the NFL is right now, it still happens because of dominant offensive lines. Rams, Chiefs, Saints, Pittsburgh.. they all can protect. And more importantly, they seem to protect extremely well in key moments in the game. 

Ours does look much better though, but we still have a ways to go and a few pieces to add before we become a dominant O-line.

Agreed.  Our line has improved, but realistically, there were WAY too many holes to improve in one offseason.  They did a pretty good job addressing it, but there is more work to do.  If they can manage another good offseason there, we should be in good shape in '19.  Look how the offense is playing with even a decent unit.