Bengals without Green

[fredtoast]

I have seen a few posts about how Dalton and the Bengals offense can't function without Green. Of course any offense would suffer when they lose a talent like Green at WR, but it is not as bad as some people claim. In the 12 games Green has missed Dalton has actually averaged more passing yards (244.9) than for his career (235.5), and his passer rating without Green (85.2) is not much different from his career (88.9).

Notable performances without Green

Game #10 of 2011... Dalton's 373 passing yards were the most allowed all season by the 12-4 Division Champion Ravens and the Bengals were one of only 4 teams that year to score as many as 24 points against them.

Game #2 of 2014... Dalton passed for 252 yards and a 116.6 rating in a win over the Falcons.

Game #5 of 2014... One of Dalton's all-time great late game performances going 15-18 for 184 yds and a td while leading 4 consecutive scoring drives in the 4th quarter and overtime against the Panthers.

Game #7 of 2014... Dalton completes 75% of his passes (21-28) for 266 yards and leads a 90 yard drive to the game winning td with less than a minute left against the Ravens.

Game #12 of 2016... 332 yds and a 130.0 passer rating in win over Eagles.

Game #13 of 2016... 112.2 passer rating in win over Browns.

Game #16 of 2016... 101.2 passer rating in win over Ravens.



Again, I am not saying we will not miss A.J., but some people here act like Dalton and the Bengals offense has never done anything without him.

[*ochocincos*]

A game without AJ Green that I think many of us still vividly remember...
Bengals @ Colts, Jan 5 2015
Dalton - 155 yards, 63.4 QBR

http://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=400749513

The key thing with this matchup was the Bengals were also down Marvin Jones and Tyler Eifert. The only pass catching threats they had were Giovani Bernard and Mohamed Sanu. I don't feel the Bengals are "quite" as bad right now as they were then regarding having enough competent pass catchers, but it's worth noting how bad it can be when only having one real receiving threat at WR/TE. Until Ross blossoms, the Bengals are in a very similar situation right now with Boyd as the only true receiving threat.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-16-2018, 02:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: A game without AJ Green that I think many of us still vividly remember...
Bengals @ Colts, Jan 5 2015
Dalton - 155 yards, 63.4 QBR

http://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=400749513

The key thing with this matchup was the Bengals were also down Marvin Jones and Tyler Eifert. The only pass catching threats they had were Giovani Bernard and Mohamed Sanu. I don't feel the Bengals are "quite" as bad right now as they were then regarding having enough competent pass catchers, but it's worth noting how bad it can be when only having one real receiving threat at WR/TE. Until Ross blossoms, the Bengals are in a very similar situation right now with Boyd as the only true receiving threat.

It is the only game I have not seen a second of, in the past 10 seasons; my boss refused to give me work off (I left 2 months later as things got awful) and I inadvertently saw the score after the game, was disgusted and told my dad to delete it off the PVR.

[BengalChris]

(11-16-2018, 02:11 PM)fredtoast Wrote: I have seen a few posts about how Dalton and the Bengals offense can't function without Green.  Of course any offense would suffer when they lose a talent like Green at WR, but it is not as bad as some people claim.  In the 12 games Green has missed Dalton has actually averaged more passing yards (244.9) than for his career (235.5), and his passer rating without Green (85.2) is not much different from his career (88.9).

Notable performances without Green

Game #10 of 2011... Dalton's 373 passing yards were the most allowed all season by the 12-4 Division Champion Ravens and the Bengals were one of only 4 teams that year to score as many as 24 points against them.

Game #2 of 2014... Dalton passed for 252 yards and a 116.6 rating in a win over the Falcons.

Game #5 of  2014...  One of Dalton's all-time great late game performances going 15-18 for 184 yds  and a td while leading 4 consecutive scoring drives in the 4th quarter and overtime against the Panthers.

Game #7 of 2014... Dalton completes 75% of his passes (21-28) for 266 yards and leads a 90 yard drive to the game winning td with less than a minute left against the Ravens.

Game #12 of 2016...  332 yds and a 130.0 passer rating in win over Eagles.

Game #13 of 2016...  112.2 passer rating in win over Browns.

Game #16 of 2016...  101.2 passer rating in win over Ravens.



Again, I am not saying we will not miss A.J., but some people here act like Dalton and the Bengals offense has never done anything without him.

Blah, blah, blah. Wins over the Browns and games with Sanu and Marvin Jones. Let's talk the last two years. Let's talk last week where Dalton only completed 12 passes.

AJ Green makes Dalton a better QB, period. Dalton does not make AJ Green a better receiver.

[*bengalfan74*]

A lot of the Bengals can't win W/O AJ stems from Dalton hate.

There's little doubt losing a top tier talent at WR is gonna hurt it would hurt any team. We need him back ASAP but an even bigger issue right now is the D. If they show up Sunday we can win without him.

[XenoMorph]

(11-16-2018, 02:23 PM)ochocincos Wrote: A game without AJ Green that I think many of us still vividly remember...
Bengals @ Colts, Jan 5 2015
Dalton - 155 yards, 63.4 QBR

http://www.espn.com/nfl/boxscore?gameId=400749513

The key thing with this matchup was the Bengals were also down Marvin Jones and Tyler Eifert. The only pass catching threats they had were Giovani Bernard and Mohamed Sanu. I don't feel the Bengals are "quite" as bad right now as they were then regarding having enough competent pass catchers, but it's worth noting how bad it can be when only having one real receiving threat at WR/TE. Until Ross blossoms, the Bengals are in a very similar situation right now with Boyd as the only true receiving threat.

we were missing a lot more than green that game.

[BengalChris]

(11-16-2018, 03:05 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: A lot of the Bengals can't win W/O AJ stems from Dalton hate.

There's little doubt losing a top tier talent at WR is gonna hurt it would hurt any team. We need him back ASAP but an even bigger issue right now is the D. If they show up Sunday we can win without him.

I don't hate Dalton at all. But I don't see him as the guy who's going to take the Bengals to a SB. Different.

[fredtoast]

(11-16-2018, 02:55 PM)BengalChris Wrote: AJ Green makes Dalton a better QB, period. Dalton does not make AJ Green a better receiver.

Green has averaged 80.9 yards per game for his career.

In the last 4 games of 2015 when Dalton was out Green had 243 receiving yards or 60.8 per game.

[Truck_1_0_1_]

(11-16-2018, 03:18 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Green has averaged 80.9 yards per game for his career.

In the last 4 games of 2015 when Dalton was out Green had 243 receiving yards or 60.8 per game.

Was JUST about to bring that up...

And we played Bmore and SAN FRAN in that stretch.

[Joelist]

(11-16-2018, 03:07 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: we were missing a lot more than green that game.

Also Jeremy Hill was gone after halftime. Remember we were actually lining up Rex Burkhead at WR and Ryan Hewitt at TE. 

[fredtoast]

(11-16-2018, 02:55 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Blah, blah, blah. Wins over the Browns and games with Sanu and Marvin Jones. Let's talk the last two years. Let's talk last week where Dalton only completed 12 passes.

Of the 7 games I listed only one was against the Browns and only 3 occurred when Sanu and Jones were here.

And lets talk about 3 week ago when Dalton had fewer passing yards against a worse defense than he did last week.

[TSwigZ]

Based on everything being argued AJ being out isn’t the problem it’s Andy Dalton being inconsistent as hell his whole career and still a starting QB after 7 seasons with zero playoff wins it’s laughable

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-16-2018, 03:20 PM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Was JUST about to bring that up...

And we played Bmore and SAN FRAN in that stretch.

Yep.

The fact is, these guys have played together their entire careers.  They complement each other, they know what the other is thinking, like Carson and Ocho.  The offense will have its struggles without AJ, but they usually play well enough to compete without him.  You take away AJ, and Eifert, the offense is going to struggle even worse.  Tyler Boyd may be the best #2 in the NFL, a #1 he is not.  Not yet anyway.....or maybe he is if you have another threat like an Eifert on the field with him.  No one fears Cody Core, John Ross, and CJ Uzomah enough to roll any coverage away from Tyler.  This is just the nuts and bolts of it.

[Shake n Blake]

Posted this 3 days ago...I'll just re-post it here:

Games AJ has missed since 2014:

vs ATL: 252 yards - 1 TD - 0 INT - 116.6 rating - Win
vs CAR: 323 yards - 2 TD - 2 INT - 93.5 rating - Tied
@ IND: 126 yards - 0 TD - 0 INT - 55.4 rating - Loss
vs BAL: 266 yards - 0 TD - 1 INT - 89.3 rating - Win (2 rush TDs)
vs DEN: 146 yards - 2 TD - 1 INT - 93.1 rating - Win (AJ was used only as a decoy)
vs BUF: 207 yards - 1 TD - 2 INT - 57.0 rating - Loss (AJ injured early...only 1 target)
@ BAL: 283 yards - 1 TD - 0 INT - 78.7 rating - Loss
vs PHI: 332 yards - 2 TD - 0 INT - 130.0 rating - Win
@ CLE: 180 yards - 2 TD - 0 INT - 112.2 rating - Win
vs PIT: 157 yards - 0 TD - 1 INT - 60.3 rating - Loss
@ HOU: 268 yards - 1 TD - 1 INT - 84.2 rating - Loss
vs BAL: 226 yards - 1 TD - 0 INT - 101.2 rating - Win
vs NO: 153 yards - 1 TD - 2 INT - 61.0 rating - Loss

Record without AJ: 6-6-1
Record with AJ (in same years): 12-16

Rating without AJ: 84.6
Rating with AJ: 90.3

Yards per game without AJ: 224.5
Yards per game with AJ: 247.9

[BengalChris]

Look, there's no stat except one that will make me believe Dalton is capable of leading the Bengals to a SB and that stat is a SB win.

I love how things just get twisted into something else.

Until Dalton does it, he hasn't done it, and he's missed so many times that there's no reason to believe he'll be able to do it in the future.

[fredtoast]

(11-16-2018, 03:36 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Look, there's no stat except one that will make me believe Dalton is capable of leading the Bengals to a SB and that stat is a SB win.

I love how things just get twisted into something else.

Until Dalton does it, he hasn't done it, and he's missed so many times that there's no reason to believe he'll be able to do it in the future.

So you are saying that the only QBs capable of winning a Super are the ones who have already won a Super Bowl?

And you actually think that logic makes sense?  You are not aware of a QB ever winning a Super Bowl who had never won one before?

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-16-2018, 03:10 PM)BengalChris Wrote: I don't hate Dalton at all. But I don't see him as the guy who's going to take the Bengals to a SB. Different.

I think the Bengals not going to the Super Bowl has a lot more to do with Ownership and Coaching than it does A. Dalton or fill in the blank QB ____________________ here. But this has been debated 1,000,000 X in dozens of threads and doesn't apply here.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(11-16-2018, 03:36 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Look, there's no stat except one that will make me believe Dalton is capable of leading the Bengals to a SB and that stat is a SB win.

I love how things just get twisted into something else.

Until Dalton does it, he hasn't done it, and he's missed so many times that there's no reason to believe he'll be able to do it in the future.

To be fair, this post was about the offense being totally dysfunctional without AJ Green, and that was proven to not be the case.  It wasn't about SBs, or even playoffs.  You have a point there, but that's not the topic of the thread.

[fredtoast]

(11-16-2018, 03:40 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I think the Bengals not going to the Super Bowl has a lot more to do with Ownership and Coaching than it does A. Dalton or fill in the blank QB ____________________ here. But this has been debated 1,000,000 X in dozens of threads and doesn't apply here.

You obviously are not familiar with BengalChris.

Every thread is a Dalton thread for him.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-16-2018, 03:36 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Look, there's no stat except one that will make me believe Dalton is capable of leading the Bengals to a SB and that stat is a SB win.

I love how things just get twisted into something else.

Until Dalton does it, he hasn't done it, and he's missed so many times that there's no reason to believe he'll be able to do it in the future.