What would you need to see?

[Goalpost]

Some punts from the opposition.

[BengalsRocker]

(11-17-2018, 12:02 PM)Goalpost Wrote: Some punts from the opposition.

[YsCascadia]

(11-17-2018, 01:28 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: The steelers will be as good as the refs will allow. If goodell wants the steelers to beat the saints,they will beat the saints.

Stop!

Yes the Steelers get a lot of lucky breaks to go their way, but they are also subjected to a lot of bad officiating going against them.

There is some evidence to suggest that the NFL is rigged and that certain storylines and narratives are spun up, however unless some big information is revealed it is all just conspiracy theory.  The shear amount of turnover in the league makes it extremely difficult for this to be true though.

Fact of the matter is, the Steelers do get away with holding, but if you look closely, we do too.  Does the NFL need to do a better job of being consistent?  Yes.  It irritates me to no end to see a game decided by a bad call or no call when the game is on the line, or in the case of the Falcons vs NE Superbowl, the officials confidently calling Edelman's miracle catch a catch, when everyone knows there is no way a person could tell without replay.  That call made the Falcons call the challenge, which replay confirmed was a catch, but the Falcons lost a critical TO that could have changed the course of the game.  Knowing that it was impossible to tell if that ball hit the ground or not during live play, the ruling should have been INC, have the Patriots challenge (if they wanted to) and reverse the call on the field.  If the Patriots don't throw the challenge flag then that is on them, but no one would be suspicious of the officials if they ruled it INC instead of Comp.

I could name countless more, I can even point to "generous" spots by the officials that give teams 1st downs (ahem Saints, he bobbled it before he caught it, and was short), or prevent teams from getting 1st downs when it looks clear that the gain was made.  Consistency is hard to do, but the NFL needs to fix these inconsistencies or they will continue to lose fans.

[*jason*]

(11-17-2018, 12:38 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: Stop!

Yes the Steelers get a lot of lucky breaks to go their way, but they are also subjected to a lot of bad officiating going against them.

There is some evidence to suggest that the NFL is rigged and that certain storylines and narratives are spun up, however unless some big information is revealed it is all just conspiracy theory.  The shear amount of turnover in the league makes it extremely difficult for this to be true though.

Fact of the matter is, the Steelers do get away with holding, but if you look closely, we do too.  Does the NFL need to do a better job of being consistent?  Yes.  It irritates me to no end to see a game decided by a bad call or no call when the game is on the line, or in the case of the Falcons vs NE Superbowl, the officials confidently calling Edelman's miracle catch a catch, when everyone knows there is no way a person could tell without replay.  That call made the Falcons call the challenge, which replay confirmed was a catch, but the Falcons lost a critical TO that could have changed the course of the game.  Knowing that it was impossible to tell if that ball hit the ground or not during live play, the ruling should have been INC, have the Patriots challenge (if they wanted to) and reverse the call on the field.  If the Patriots don't throw the challenge flag then that is on them, but no one would be suspicious of the officials if they ruled it INC instead of Comp.

I could name countless more, I can even point to "generous" spots by the officials that give teams 1st downs (ahem Saints, he bobbled it before he caught it, and was short), or prevent teams from getting 1st downs when it looks clear that the gain was made.  Consistency is hard to do, but the NFL needs to fix these inconsistencies or they will continue to lose fans.

I hear what your saying... But bringing up a poor spot if the football in that Saints game is silly. They effortlessly moved the ball that day... There wasn't a doubt in my mind they were gonna score with 8 seconds left in the first half.

[jfkbengals]

I think everyone wants to see these three things tomorrow:

1) A wide receiver step up into the void with AJ out to allow the offense to work as it did early in the season.

2) The defense that played the 4th quarter against Miami to show up for all 4 quarters.

3) Effective offensive play in the third quarter.

[YsCascadia]

(11-17-2018, 12:43 PM)jason Wrote: I hear what your saying... But bringing up a poor spot if the football in that Saints game is silly. They effortlessly moved the ball that day... There wasn't a doubt in my mind they were gonna score with 8 seconds left in the first half.

No it isn't, you see that was on the opening drive.  That could have set the tone and led to a different game altogether.  However the Saints had no issue in moving the ball so it is even more glaring when the refs are helping them move the ball.  The refs also helped them on that TD as the receiver did not catch that ball.

The reason you aren't as angry about it is because of the blowout that we suffered.  However if the game was closer then those calls would have been the deciding factor in the Saints winning.  Giving them a 1st down was wrong.  Likewise giving them a TD was wrong.  The Saints didn't need the officials help, but the officials gave it to them anyway.

Those same officials could be officiating the Dolphins game this Sunday, and those exact same plays would be called differently.  Let's say Dolphins are driving, pass caught by the receiver, the same official that ruled the Saints spot a 1st down all of a sudden rules that the receiver bobbled the ball before securing the football and was thus short of the 1st down, bringing up 4th down.  Likewise instead of ruling TD, after review the official reverses the call.  If a Dolphins fan had watched our game and saw the Saints get a 1st down and a TD, then they would be outraged at this same crew calling short or no TD on the same plays. 

So it isn't silly.  The point is that even though we lost, the NFL needs to be more consistent.  Otherwise you get people making claims of a conspiracy that certain teams will always get the call in their favor or rigged games.  Steelers hold on every play, we do too, however we get called for holding more than the Steelers do, thus the perception that the NFL favors the Steelers and will rig the game to allow them to win against anyone.

[*Nately120*]

(11-17-2018, 01:28 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: The steelers will be as good as the refs will allow. If goodell wants the steelers to beat the saints,they will beat the saints.

You really think Godell wants a barroom bathroom rapist to beat golden boy Brees?

[*Awful Llama*]

(11-17-2018, 02:41 PM)Nately120 Wrote: You really think Godell wants a barroom bathroom rapist to beat golden boy Brees?

I'm not sure what scenario I would want to cheer for here:  a game won by Pit that is completely on the up-and-up and with nary a trace of league interference, or the refs screwing over Pit to give Brees the W.  Meh, gimmee that second thing.

Wouldn't be the worst thing for Pit to win most of the rest of their games.  We have a path to 10-6 that's manageable, so if Pit got a bye, I wouldn't be upset.  Means we can skip them and go to Foxboro or Houston/Tennessee.  

[bengalsturntup926]

(11-17-2018, 02:41 PM)Nately120 Wrote: You really think Godell wants a barroom bathroom rapist to beat golden boy Brees?

Yeah because thats his team,hes good friends with the rooneys. But it depends what storyline they want to push. One of the only teams ive seen the refs not help the steelers with was the pats. I really do think its fixed. It could be fixed with some players here and there. But i know definitely they fix it with the refs. They know they can easily sway games with calls. Like 3rd down for pitt they throw incomplete, oh what do you know a ticky tack call on dre. Redo!! I see the refs even giving them a extra two yards for the first agaibst every team. 

We havnt won nothing big or a superbowl? Its because the refs and the nfl. Why did they make the bengals not use the no huddle in the superbowl. But let the 49ers do it the next year? They even make rules up as they go. Or review tds when they want. 

[bengalsturntup926]

(11-17-2018, 12:38 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: Stop!

Yes the Steelers get a lot of lucky breaks to go their way, but they are also subjected to a lot of bad officiating going against them.

There is some evidence to suggest that the NFL is rigged and that certain storylines and narratives are spun up, however unless some big information is revealed it is all just conspiracy theory.  The shear amount of turnover in the league makes it extremely difficult for this to be true though.

Fact of the matter is, the Steelers do get away with holding, but if you look closely, we do too.  Does the NFL need to do a better job of being consistent?  Yes.  It irritates me to no end to see a game decided by a bad call or no call when the game is on the line, or in the case of the Falcons vs NE Superbowl, the officials confidently calling Edelman's miracle catch a catch, when everyone knows there is no way a person could tell without replay.  That call made the Falcons call the challenge, which replay confirmed was a catch, but the Falcons lost a critical TO that could have changed the course of the game.  Knowing that it was impossible to tell if that ball hit the ground or not during live play, the ruling should have been INC, have the Patriots challenge (if they wanted to) and reverse the call on the field.  If the Patriots don't throw the challenge flag then that is on them, but no one would be suspicious of the officials if they ruled it INC instead of Comp.

I could name countless more, I can even point to "generous" spots by the officials that give teams 1st downs (ahem Saints, he bobbled it before he caught it, and was short), or prevent teams from getting 1st downs when it looks clear that the gain was made.  Consistency is hard to do, but the NFL needs to fix these inconsistencies or they will continue to lose fans.

You started off against me then you basically agreed with me lol. I will continue to watch and get into football for god knows what. But its not a fair game. Its corrupt. 

[wolfkaosaun]

Beating a 4-5 team that's either going to be starting a raw rookie or a backup QB who has thrown 9 INTs and 13 fumbles in his last 12 games isn't really going to boost much confidence.

Do I believe they can make the playoffs? Absolutely.
Do I think they can beat the Steelers, Chiefs, Patriots, or Chargers? That's very uncertain.

I do give them a decent shot against the AFC South teams, though.
But they need to beat a team that is actually going somewhere.
They're 0-4 against teams with winning records.
Outscored 66-155.

They're averaging 16.5 points against teams with winning records.
While giving up 38.8 points against teams with winning records.

Want me to have confidence you can win a playoff game? Beat the teams you're supposed to and beat the Chargers.

[*Nately120*]

(11-17-2018, 03:11 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Yeah because thats his team,hes good friends with the rooneys. But it depends what storyline they want to push. One of the only teams ive seen the refs not help the steelers with was the pats. I really do think its fixed. It could be fixed with some players here and there. But i know definitely they fix it with the refs. They know they can easily sway games with calls. Like 3rd down for pitt they throw incomplete, oh what do you know a ticky tack call on dre. Redo!! I see the refs even giving them a extra two yards for the first agaibst every team. 

We havnt won nothing big or a superbowl? Its because the refs and the nfl. Why did they make the bengals not use the no huddle in the superbowl. But let the 49ers do it the next year? They even make rules up as they go. Or review tds when they want. 

I did hear a rumor that Paul Tagliabue held Mike Brown at gunpoint and forced him to botch the Akili Smith trade offer.

Anyways, I'm sure there is someone on a Steelers board somewhere who knows the Steelers and Pig Ben would have at least as many SB rings as Brady if the #metoo movement and the PC police didn't force Godell to order refs to screw the Steelers.  It's a shame, really.  

[bengalsturntup926]

(11-17-2018, 03:23 PM)Nately120 Wrote: I did hear a rumor that Paul Tagliabue held Mike Brown at gunpoint and forced him to botch the Akili Smith trade offer.

Anyways, I'm sure there is someone on a Steelers board somewhere who knows the Steelers and Pig Ben would have at least as many SB rings as Brady if the #metoo movement and the PC police didn't force Godell to order refs to screw the Steelers.  It's a shame, really.  

Seriously just think how many more rings would the steelers have if they didnt have the pats and one of the best of all time in brady. Goodells got to cater to that team too. And then he had manning he had to cater too also. 

[YsCascadia]

(11-17-2018, 03:17 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: You started off against me then you basically agreed with me lol. I will continue to watch and get into football for god knows what. But its not a fair game. Its corrupt. 

Let's just say I agree with you that there is a problem with consistency in officiating.

I disagree with the notion that the Steelers are a "favored" team and will win no matter what.  Whether we like it or not, the Steelers get their fair share of bad calls.  I remember a game, I think it was 2009, Brett Kiesel was flagged for celebrating a sack on Palmer, it gave us a 1st down.  It was a BS call, as it wasn't excessive and he had done it before without incident. 

We should have won our playoff game against them in 2015, all Hill had to do is hold onto the football, that's it.  We were already in FG range, under 2 mins.  Our goal should have been to get them to take their TOs, they had all 3, and if we get the 1st down, then game over, if not then kick the FG, with under 1 min and them needing a TD.  Yet Hill decided to do something on that play that was lacking from him almost all game long, aggressive running, which allowed for a strip/fumble by the Steelers.  A 1st down play, and he decides to get cocky.  That wasn't officiating, that was all him.

Even this year, the officials didn't allow the Steelers to beat us.  We should have won that game, but instead of slowing down and killing clock, we sped up and scored as fast as we could.  The Steelers lose that game if we score with 30s or less of game time.  That isn't officiating, that is poor game management.

[McC]

(11-17-2018, 03:11 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Yeah because thats his team,hes good friends with the rooneys. But it depends what storyline they want to push. One of the only teams ive seen the refs not help the steelers with was the pats. I really do think its fixed. It could be fixed with some players here and there. But i know definitely they fix it with the refs. They know they can easily sway games with calls. Like 3rd down for pitt they throw incomplete, oh what do you know a ticky tack call on dre. Redo!! I see the refs even giving them a extra two yards for the first agaibst every team. 

We havnt won nothing big or a superbowl? Its because the refs and the nfl. Why did they make the bengals not use the no huddle in the superbowl. But let the 49ers do it the next year? They even make rules up as they go. Or review tds when they want. 

I don't think it's actually fixed by conspiracy.  To me, the biggest issue is that the rule book is not user friendly, with way too much subjectivity built into it, which creates way too many judgment calls.  And issue 1B is that the officials sukk and are human, which makes them far from perfect going in.

All this does not mean there aren't narratives--i.e. chase Burfict out of the league, or that there aren't golden boys coaching and playing. But I can't imagine a bunch of people ever sat down and said, all right, here's what we're gonna do.

[McC]

(11-17-2018, 12:02 PM)Goalpost Wrote: Some punts from the opposition.

Yes.  This would be a nice change of pace.

[*Nately120*]

(11-17-2018, 03:27 PM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: Seriously just think how many more rings would the steelers have if they didnt have the pats and one of the best of all time in brady. Goodells got to cater to that team too. And then he had manning he had to cater too also. 

So in your opinion we've seen what...only 5 legit SB winners in the past 17 years or so?  It can be argued that the NFL is biased towards the:

Steelers - 2 wins
Patriots - 5 wins
the Mannings - 4 wins
Aaron "Golden Boy" Rogers - 1 win
Drew "the cool dad" Brees - 1 win


Hell, the NFL was pushing the Russel Wilson and Seahawks 12th man crap pretty hard the year they won, and this feel good Philly story last year seems a little contrived, too. This year the NFL is pushing Brees making his big comeback and return to form, as well as making sure their big-market LA team in the Rams is going to win, too. The Chiefs are quite the media darling now, too. Unless some team really comes out of the 6th seed to win it all this year, I'd say the 2018 title is a bs one, too. So we're looking at like...3 or 4 legit SB wins (and NFL seasons) over the past 20 years. What a damn shame.

At least we will know as soon as the Bengals have a QB who can win the SB and/or make the HOF it will be a BS win because the NFL will suddenly see the value in cheating for us.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(11-16-2018, 10:55 PM)YsCascadia Wrote: What would get you to restore your faith in this team?

I don't mean after the season either.

What would you need to see on Sunday that would make you think that maybe this team can in fact go to the playoffs?

How about the next 3 games?  Not just winning.  As that would definitely help, but what type of win would make you regain the faith that was evident earlier in the season.

For me personally, I would like to see sound tackling.  The defense not looking so lost on the field.  To know where they are supposed to go and to do what they are supposed to do.  I would also like to see Pittsburgh lose the next 3 games, as that would put us over them.

The next 3 games are crucial for us.  Winning at Baltimore and the next 2 at home against the Browns and the Broncos would give us an 8-4 record.  If the Steelers lose the next 3 (@Jacksonville, @Denver and at home against the Chargers) and then their record would be 6-5-1.  Even if they win 1 or 2 of those games then they will have a 7-4-1 or 8-4-1 respectively.  If they win all 3, then they do have a 9-4-1 record with us a game and a half behind.

So let's say we do win the next 3, what would make you think we go on a run and not only make the postseason but make some noise while there?

Like you said, sound tackling to go along with better coverage and some passion honestly.

Need to get some of that fire, some of that want, that is what the best teams get going into the Playoffs.

Stopping Offenses on 3rd down is the big one. This has to happen. Cannot be frickin' automatic, DAMN!

Young guys coming along like Billings, Ross, Vigil, Evans, WJ3, Price would be a great start.

I think all of these guys have lots of talent but it has yet shown Price obviously cause of the injury.

Will also add that Geno needs to get to his earlier play this season, seems to have disappeared lately.

[Bengalitis]

Well, since they got rid of Austin, many probably still remember when the Ravens fired Fassel and Billick took over the play calling for the offense.
Putting it here for your comparisons:

Billick takes over Ravens' play-calling after firing Fassel
BALTIMORE -- Baltimore Ravens coach Brian Billick has fired offensive coordinator Jim
Fassel and will take over the play-calling for the Ravens offense.
Billick said it was difficult for him to let Fassel go, saying he has been "a valuable and loyal coach to me." However, he added, "clearly, in order for us to expand on our 4-2 start we have to have more offensive productivity."

Click to read it all:
http://www.espn.com/nfl/news/story?id=2629319

[bengalhoel]

(11-17-2018, 10:09 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Very true. Losing like we did to KC & NO was played horribly. Guys didn’t seem like they were in it. No heart, no effort, no fight. These guys have to put everything on the field and walk off after 60 minutes with nothing left to convince me.

That starts with the coaching staff though. I am one of those guys that thinks that players should be self motivated given the money that they make. That being said, it helps if your coach isnt standing on the sidelines looking like he is thinking about the beginning of the universe. He is not letting the players blame the refs but he is in their face when they screw us over and over again. 

Hopefully Marvin calling the defense will fire his ass up.