The Mike and Marvin Show an Epic Fail

[BengalChris]

After the lost decade of the 90's it's easy to lose sight of what a good Bengals team looks like.

Before Mike Brown inherited the team and appointed himself GM, here is what the Bengals were:

Two MVP QBs in Kenny Anderson and Boomer Esiason.

The team appeared in 12 playoff games, winning 5 and losing 7 (including two Super Bowls).

The Bengals teams of the 80's were feared. It went toe-to-toe with the best teams in the NFL. Its offenses were innovative and its defenses were talented. It had superb offensive lines, superb receivers, running backs, etc.


Then came Mike Brown, the self appointed GM know-it-all, who turned out to know very little about actually fielding a winning team.

The Mike Brown teams have appeared in 7 playoff games, losing all of them, and the team was really only in one of those games.

The lost decade of the 90's sank fans so deep that the slight improvement brought by Marvin Lewis has caused fans to believe this team is a contender.

But when we look at how good teams respond in big games, it's easy to see that the Bengals just don't have that IT factor that contenders need to have to be a legit contender.


I'm sure someone who loves to cherry pick single game stats will find a game here and there where the Bengals have responded like a contender, but when you look at the rein of Mike Brown as a whole all you will find are teams who disappoint consistently and routinely.

Marvin Lewis is 0 for 7 in the playoffs, an all-time NFL record worst. Jim Mora was 0 for 6 and the next worst was 0 for 3. Marvin Lewis teams fold in big games. Mike Brown teams fold period.

QB Andy Dalton is also the general of the NFL's all-time QB worst playoff record at 0 for 4, with 1 TD pass, 6 INTs (2 pick 6s), 4 FUMs. Yep, that's more TDs to the wrong team than to his own.

Here's some playoff records of current QBs: Brady 27-10 playoff record, Wilson 8-4, Eli 8-4, Rodgers 9-7, Pig Ben 13-8, Newton 3-4, Luck, 3-3, Flacco 10-5, Brees 7-6, Stafford 0-3 (do we consider Stafford a top 10 guy? Probably not.), Rivers 4-5.

How about passer rating? Some consider this to be the real QB stat. Here's some all times QB playoff rating stats (not a complete list, just making a point): Bart Starr 104.8, Kurt Warner 102.8, Matt Ryan 100.8, Drew Brees 100.7, Aaron Rodgers 99.4, Alex Smith 97.4, Russell Wilson 94.1, Kenny Anderson 93.5, Tom Brady 90.9, Joe Flacco 88.6, Cam Newton 87.7, Eli Manning 87.4, Pig Ben 86.4, Philip Rivers 85.2. Andy Dalton has a 57.8 playoff passer rating.

Only Mike Brown would keep Marvin Lewis on as head coach for 15 years of disappointment. Yes, there was improvement in the team with Marvin Lewis, but the improvement has not been any where near to what the team was under Paul Brown.

Someone who loves to cherry pick stats will come up with some numbers that shows this or that, but don't be fooled. This team is going nowhere and has gone nowhere under Mike and Marvin. Maybe Dalton would play better under a different coach, but for the Bengals, under Marv, Dalton doesn't have what it takes to lead this team to the promised land. Possibly no QB has what it takes to do the job under Mike and Marv.


Each year we have hope for the draft, because we generally consider that this team drafts pretty well. The team has picked a few gems in Atkins, Dunlap, Green and others. But the team has also whiffed badly on several key picks. I'm watching the Rams and KC right now and the Rams lose Kupps last week for the year and in comes this guy Reynolds who makes play after play. Yet, my Bengals lose Green for a few games and their 2nd round WR Boyd can't catch a cold and top 10 pick Ross is still lost on the field and takes 7 targets to make 2 catches. The receivers don't show up, but the RBs had 5 catches on 5 targets, but are ignored when the game was on the line.


Wow! What a difference! In the 80's it could easily have been the Bengals in this game tonight, but alas we have the Mike Brown version today.


I want a contender, not a pretender!

Sadly, Mike and Marvin are the latter.

[bengalsturntup926]

I want a contender too and agree with you, good ran teams always have a guy waiting in the wings
See eagles last year when their almighty qb went down.

[corpjet]

Sh1t Show is what I call it

[THE PISTONS]

(11-20-2018, 02:39 AM)bengalsturntup926 Wrote: I want a contender too and agree with you, good ran teams always have a guy waiting in the wings
See eagles last year when their almighty qb went down.

Even if you use the excuse that injuries destroy our season...we've done nothing for 26 years. Over that span...some 26 teams have won 5+ playoff games with many winning more.

To think that we can't win a single playoff game is incomprehensible.

[*Nately120*]

Listen, the guy is a successful businessman with more money in the bank than most of us will ever have...he's a winner! Er, wait...I thought this was the politics forum. My bad.

Mike Brown stinks, and the worst part is that he doesn't care. People act like he's going to snap out of it, well he haint. He knows what he's doing.

[*bengalfan74*]

While I agree with the bulk of what you're saying the thread title is the fail not Andy Dalton.

I'm not getting into an AD debate but is he elite ? NO But it was the same thing with Carson Palmer, John Kitna, McCarron and on and on. My point is it's not the players ! Your post would have been a lot better had you not decided to bash AD HE'S NOT THE PROBLEM

It's nail meet hammer with the horrible GM and a awful HC.

[depthchart]

(11-20-2018, 11:37 AM)bengalfan74 Wrote: It's nail meet hammer with the horrible GM and a awful HC.

It seems that Mike has been doing more & more giving in to Marvin's wishes, especially in 2018.

Unless I am mistaken, it was Marvin that wanted to over haul his Coaching Staff or was at least allowed to decide which Coaches to hire.

I think Teryl Austin was Marvin's guy & Mike let him get rid of Piano Man etc.

Mike, as GM, agreed to begin an O-line over haul. Either initiated or agreed to trade for Cordy Glenn & take a Center in round one. (Billy Price)

Mike opened his wallet to sign Dunlap & Atkins to extensions.

Marvin likely made the decision to take over as Defensive Co-ordinator after his handpicked guy in Teryl Austin failed.

The Bengals sit at 5 and 5 & are the first "in the hunt" Playoff contender team as the 7th ranked team in the AFC right now.

The O-line improvements have helped, yet it will take another offseason to continue the over haul.

Marvin will likely hand pick another Defensive Co-ordinator this upcoming offseason.

It seems to me that Marvin holds more of the reigns of decision making for this 2018 season and beyond.

I'm not so sure that the "horrible GM is holding him back" is the be all & end all here anymore.

I get that everything ultimately falls back on Mike, however, I see this as 90% Marvin's show going forward with some negative hangover of previous Mike influence still lingering.

It may be that Marvin has more influence than ever & just needs another offseason to finally Paint a Masterpiece or he paints a turd in 2019.

There may be more Marvin fingerprints on things and less Mike fingerprints on things going forward.

[masonbengals fan]

That's real inspirational. This shit show should have been shut down long ago.

[Whatever]

(11-20-2018, 12:51 PM)depthchart Wrote: It seems that Mike has been doing more & more giving in to Marvin's wishes, especially in 2018.

Unless I am mistaken, it was Marvin that wanted to over haul his Coaching Staff or was at least allowed to decide which Coaches to hire.

I think Teryl Austin was Marvin's guy & Mike let him get rid of Piano Man etc.

Mike, as GM, agreed to begin an O-line over haul. Either initiated or agreed to trade for Cordy Glenn & take a Center in round one. (Billy Price)

Mike opened his wallet to sign Dunlap & Atkins to extensions.

Marvin likely made the decision to take over as Defensive Co-ordinator after his handpicked guy in Teryl Austin failed.

The Bengals sit at 5 and 5 & are the first "in the hunt" Playoff contender team as the 7th ranked team in the AFC right now.

The O-line improvements have helped, yet it will take another offseason to continue the over haul.

Marvin will likely hand pick another Defensive Co-ordinator this upcoming offseason.

It seems to me that Marvin holds more of the reigns of decision making for this 2018 season and beyond.

I'm not so sure that the "horrible GM is holding him back" is the be all & end all here anymore.

I get that everything ultimately falls back on Mike, however, I see this as 90% Marvin's show going forward with some negative hangover of previous Mike influence still lingering.

It may be that Marvin has more influence than ever & just needs another offseason to finally Paint a Masterpiece or he paints a turd in 2019.

There may be more Marvin fingerprints on things and less Mike fingerprints on things going forward.

Brown isn't a great owner/GM.  That said, this team has had the talent to at least win a playoff game several times, and has always underachieved under Marvin.  The '09 game against the Jets with a rookie Mark Sanchez after we got to scout them with our backups should have been a win.  The first Houston loss when they had to trot their 3rd string QB out there should have been a win.  The Chargers game should have been a win.  The second Pittsburgh game would have been a win if Marvin could control his players.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-20-2018, 12:51 PM)depthchart Wrote: It seems that Mike has been doing more & more giving in to Marvin's wishes, especially in 2018.

Unless I am mistaken, it was Marvin that wanted to over haul his Coaching Staff or was at least allowed to decide which Coaches to hire.

I think Teryl Austin was Marvin's guy & Mike let him get rid of Piano Man etc.

Mike, as GM, agreed to begin an O-line over haul. Either initiated or agreed to trade for Cordy Glenn & take a Center in round one. (Billy Price)

Mike opened his wallet to sign Dunlap & Atkins to extensions.

Marvin likely made the decision to take over as Defensive Co-ordinator after his handpicked guy in Teryl Austin failed.

The Bengals sit at 5 and 5 & are the first "in the hunt" Playoff contender team as the 7th ranked team in the AFC right now.

The O-line improvements have helped, yet it will take another offseason to continue the over haul.

Marvin will likely hand pick another Defensive Co-ordinator this upcoming offseason.

It seems to me that Marvin holds more of the reigns of decision making for this 2018 season and beyond.

I'm not so sure that the "horrible GM is holding him back" is the be all & end all here anymore.

I get that everything ultimately falls back on Mike, however, I see this as 90% Marvin's show going forward with some negative hangover of previous Mike influence still lingering.

It may be that Marvin has more influence than ever & just needs another offseason to finally Paint a Masterpiece or he paints a turd in 2019.

There may be more Marvin fingerprints on things and less Mike fingerprints on things going forward.

The offensive line IS NOT improved. Their PFF Grades are basically the same exact as our LB unit.

4 of our 5 lineman are graded in the 50's and the 5th is in the mid-60's. That's an inept offensive line.

And WHO is responsible for Marvin to be here still? Yeah the GM. How many other teams would bring back a coach that was 0-7 in the playoffs when his contract was up?

[depthchart]

(11-20-2018, 01:37 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The offensive line IS NOT improved. Their PFF Grades are basically the same exact as our LB unit.

4 of our 5 lineman are graded in the 50's and the 5th is in the mid-60's. That's an inept offensive line.

And WHO is responsible for Marvin to be here still? Yeah the GM. How many other teams would bring back a coach that was 0-7 in the playoffs when his contract was up?

As I said in my Post, I get that Mike is ultimately responsible. I just see Marvin having more influence now than possibly ever.

I do think O-line improvements were made.

Billy Price is an upgrade from Bodine going forward at Center.

I would also take Cordy Glenn & Hart over Cedric Ogbuehi & Fisher from 2017.

[CincyCR3814]

(11-20-2018, 02:11 AM)BengalChris Wrote: The lost decade of the 90's sank fans so deep that the slight improvement brought by Marvin Lewis has caused fans to believe this team is a contender.

THIS!!!  :andy:  Sums it up for me as a fan for the last 20 years. I remember the feeling as a kid when they were Miami Bound and went to the super bowl!(still have a sweat shirt with that on it) It's so bad that some fans of this team would rather get to the playoffs every year and lose versus suffering a slight drought to be a major contender.   It seems the standard that management has laid out is, "Be good enough not to be the worst team in the league." I'll ALWAYS be a fan of my hometown team, but at this point I wont be satisfied with the front office until they win a Super Bowl. Last year we celebrated 50 years of team existence...the sad part is over HALF that time we haven't had a shot at winning...let that sink in... :paul:

WHO DEY!!!

[THE PISTONS]

(11-20-2018, 02:01 PM)depthchart Wrote: As I said in my Post, I get that Mike is ultimately responsible. I just see Marvin having more influence now than possibly ever.

I do think O-line improvements were made.

Billy Price is an upgrade from Bodine going forward at Center.

I would also take Cordy Glenn & Hart over Cedric Ogbuehi & Fisher from 2017.

As far as the line, while the players may have more raw talent...the grades on PFF are similar to last year.

[Mickeypoo]

(11-20-2018, 12:51 PM)depthchart Wrote: It seems that Mike has been doing more & more giving in to Marvin's wishes, especially in 2018.

Unless I am mistaken, it was Marvin that wanted to over haul his Coaching Staff or was at least allowed to decide which Coaches to hire.

I think Teryl Austin was Marvin's guy & Mike let him get rid of Piano Man etc.

Mike, as GM, agreed to begin an O-line over haul. Either initiated or agreed to trade for Cordy Glenn & take a Center in round one. (Billy Price)

Mike opened his wallet to sign Dunlap & Atkins to extensions.

Marvin likely made the decision to take over as Defensive Co-ordinator after his handpicked guy in Teryl Austin failed.

The Bengals sit at 5 and 5 & are the first "in the hunt" Playoff contender team as the 7th ranked team in the AFC right now.

The O-line improvements have helped, yet it will take another offseason to continue the over haul.

Marvin will likely hand pick another Defensive Co-ordinator this upcoming offseason.

It seems to me that Marvin holds more of the reigns of decision making for this 2018 season and beyond.

I'm not so sure that the "horrible GM is holding him back" is the be all & end all here anymore.

I get that everything ultimately falls back on Mike, however, I see this as 90% Marvin's show going forward with some negative hangover of previous Mike influence still lingering.

It may be that Marvin has more influence than ever & just needs another offseason to finally Paint a Masterpiece or he paints a turd in 2019.

There may be more Marvin fingerprints on things and less Mike fingerprints on things going forward.

Can we just opt for neither of their fingerprints on anything Bengals in 2019?  It's just insane and comical at this point.  

[depthchart]

(11-20-2018, 02:14 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: As far as the line, while the players may have more raw talent...the grades on PFF are similar to last year.

I don't see PFF as the ultimate authority here.

Bodine or Price  -  I take Price

Cedirc or Glenn - I take Glenn

Fisher or Hart - I take Hart (although more of a short term option to me)

Dalton appears to me to be much more comfortable behind the 2018 line than he was in 2017.

It may be that longer term, Cordy Glenn would be better served as the Right Tackle.

Still more pieces needed but I still say it was improved and at the very least a strong effort was made to improve it with a 1st round pick used at Center plus trading down for Cordy Glenn who had been a respected Left tackle leading up to the trade. 

[Whatever]

(11-20-2018, 02:14 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: As far as the line, while the players may have more raw talent...the grades on PFF are similar to last year.

Mixon is averaging 4.6 ypc this year compared to 3.5 last year.  Dalton is on pace to be sacked 8 fewer times this year.  I don't see how anyone can argue that the OL isn't better.  Not to mention that they are much improved based on the eye test.

[*ochocincos*]

(11-20-2018, 11:24 AM)Nately120 Wrote: Listen, the guy is a successful businessman with more money in the bank than most of us will ever have...he's a winner!  Er, wait...I thought this was the politics forum.  My bad.

Mike Brown stinks, and the worst part is that he doesn't care.  People act like he's going to snap out of it, well he haint.  He knows what he's doing.

You sure he didn't just inherit a successful company from his father, kept the business afloat, and therefore people just perceive him to be a successful businessman when in reality he'd have likely failed if he started his business from the ground up? 

[I_C_DeadPeople]

He is a useless businessman. Silver spooner who has simply rode the rise of the NFL. He could make more money than he does by investing more in the team and the team brand but he can't/won't do it.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-20-2018, 02:52 PM)ochocincos Wrote: You sure he didn't just inherit a successful company from his father, kept the business afloat, and therefore people just perceive him to be a successful businessman when in reality he'd have likely failed if he started his business from the ground up? 

Yep !

You always here people talking about Mike being a successful business man and I guess in a sense he is ? But he didn't build anything a can't fail business fell into his lap and he's doing nothing but ride the wave - period !

Mike has done NOTHING to build the brand. 

[fredtoast]

(11-20-2018, 12:51 PM)depthchart Wrote: It seems that Mike has been doing more & more giving in to Marvin's wishes, especially in 2018.

Unless I am mistaken, it was Marvin that wanted to over haul his Coaching Staff or was at least allowed to decide which Coaches to hire.

I think Teryl Austin was Marvin's guy & Mike let him get rid of Piano Man etc.

Mike, as GM, agreed to begin an O-line over haul. Either initiated or agreed to trade for Cordy Glenn & take a Center in round one. (Billy Price)

Mike opened his wallet to sign Dunlap & Atkins to extensions.

Marvin likely made the decision to take over as Defensive Co-ordinator after his handpicked guy in Teryl Austin failed.

The Bengals sit at 5 and 5 & are the first "in the hunt" Playoff contender team as the 7th ranked team in the AFC right now.

The O-line improvements have helped, yet it will take another offseason to continue the over haul.

Marvin will likely hand pick another Defensive Co-ordinator this upcoming offseason.

It seems to me that Marvin holds more of the reigns of decision making for this 2018 season and beyond.

I'm not so sure that the "horrible GM is holding him back" is the be all & end all here anymore.

I get that everything ultimately falls back on Mike, however, I see this as 90% Marvin's show going forward with some negative hangover of previous Mike influence still lingering.

It may be that Marvin has more influence than ever & just needs another offseason to finally Paint a Masterpiece or he paints a turd in 2019.

There may be more Marvin fingerprints on things and less Mike fingerprints on things going forward.

Basically you have nothing to go on other than your "feelings" about what you "think" "seems" to be happening.
How about some actual facts.

Mike Brown as GM with Marvin Lewis as HC.... 526 win%...15 seasons......7 playoff season
Mike Brown with 3 other head coaches...……...286 win%...12 seasons.......0 winning seasons