Dennard

[THE PISTONS]

(11-24-2018, 08:32 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I think part of the issue with Dennard is that he was a boundary CB at Mich St., and a pretty darn good one.   His entire pro career with the Bengals, he's been asked to play the slot corner role.  It could just be by his body size (5'11"), and maybe they just want a little more length to their outside corners, but I don't think that Dennard has ever become completely comfortable playing the interior of the field.

Yessir Sunset. That goes along with my theory that the Bengals draft off of Kiper and some of the other pundits lists for best available player, but they neglect fit. It's one area where having a small Scouting Department really hurts us.

Really our last 6-7 drafts haven't been that good. We're living off of Dunlap/Atkins and Dalton/Green.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-24-2018, 11:03 PM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Corners are only as good as the amount of pressure on the QB.

I think that if you look at our defense, the line is actually fairly good...minus MJ. The Secondary...the safety's are above average to good. The Cornerbacks are average most of the time.

The Linebackers are horrible. All of them. Even Burfict has played extremely below what he is capable of. That lets teams run on us and complete short passes to TE's and RB's. Then that sets teams up for passing. We get a lot of short passes completed against us that result in long plays.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-25-2018, 12:48 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yessir Sunset. That goes along with my theory that the Bengals draft off of Kiper and some of the other pundits lists for best available player, but they neglect fit. It's one area where having a small Scouting Department really hurts us.

Really our last 6-7 drafts haven't been that good. We're living off of Dunlap/Atkins and Dalton/Green.

Yep, if they could have followed up with equally successful drafts, this team could have been a dynasty by now. 

[THE PISTONS]

(11-25-2018, 12:54 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yep, if they could have followed up with equally successful drafts, this team could have been a dynasty by now. 

Kind of looks like the drafts were more luck than skill?

Green was a no brainer at that pick. And Dalton...Palmer forced their hand and it was Dalton or Mallett.

Then, Atkins was a great pick.

The rest of the drafts looked good at the time as they seemed to get good value, but the guys didn't perform.

It's either coaching or drafting at that point.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-25-2018, 12:57 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Kind of looks like the drafts were more luck than skill?

Green was a no brainer at that pick. And Dalton...Palmer forced their hand and it was Dalton or Mallett.

Then, Atkins was a great pick.

The rest of the drafts looked good at the time as they seemed to get good value, but the guys didn't perform.

It's either coaching or drafting at that point.

I'm saying that our coaching isn't developing talent well enough to raise them up right.  Guys like Green, Dalton, Atkins, Whitworth, Eifert and Dunlap were going to be stars no matter who drafted them, or at what position they were drafted at.  They appear to have gotten lucky with Bates, in this year's draft.  But, wow.  Just look at all of the picks through the years that we thought were going to be sure hits, that have went to the wayside.

This team seems to not have a specific method, or format to how they generally do things.  Weather it be picking talent, developing that talent, or organizing that talent on the field.  Those things are typically part of a master plan laid out by a competent General Manager, who selects coaches and scouts to find and develop players that fit into the mold of the team that he wants to present.  We seem to use the approach of "pot luck', and "let's see if this works".

[J24]

(11-25-2018, 12:48 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Yessir Sunset. That goes along with my theory that the Bengals draft off of Kiper and some of the other pundits lists for best available player, but they neglect fit. It's one area where having a small Scouting Department really hurts us.

Really our last 6-7 drafts haven't been that good. We're living off of Dunlap/Atkins and Dalton/Green.

I would say our last three drafts have been good the problem is we haven't done Jack but loose people in free agency.
2016- Jackson, Boyd, Billings, and Vigil
2017- Mixon, Glasgow, Lawson
2018 Price, Bates, Hubbard.

[*SHRacerX*]

(11-24-2018, 05:44 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I love it when people say the PFF rankings are useless.

That said, Kirkpatrick's rating is 60.9 which is the #73 CB.

Dennard, 61.9 which is the #68 CB.

Jackson, 66.5 which is the #45 CB.

Phillips, 60.1 and not enough snaps to rate.

The ratings actually aren't terrible. They'd average to below average I'd say.

For giving up 500+ yards in 3 games in a row, I'd say the ratings are probably slightly higher than one would expect.

Our Safeties actually rate out pretty good overall too.

I wouldn't say they are useless, but they don't factor in things like pass rush (or in our case, lack therof).  Our DBs are asked to cover longer than probably any in the league and it is just not a fair measure of their abilities.  Do we really think the Browns corners are superior to ours or do they benefit from a significant pass rush.

To dismiss that point is to dismiss the entire concept of team defense.  Our scheme is sissy(only because it will edit the "P" word), our players are uninspired by leadership and said sissy scheme, and our team will give up underneath crap all day long (high % completions, low risk) to avoid giving up big plays.  It is the dumbest thing I have ever witnesses in football and I am 100% certain that they will not win anything until they get a set of balls and stop playing so damn conservative.  

[Sled21]

(11-25-2018, 12:51 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: The Linebackers are horrible. 

While they have vastly underperformed this year, I think it's relative to point out we have never had 3 starting linebackers on the field together this year....

[Luvnit2]

(11-25-2018, 12:57 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Kind of looks like the drafts were more luck than skill?

Green was a no brainer at that pick. And Dalton...Palmer forced their hand and it was Dalton or Mallett.

Then, Atkins was a great pick.

The rest of the drafts looked good at the time as they seemed to get good value, but the guys didn't perform.

It's either coaching or drafting at that point.

Do we pigeon hole any round 1 and round 2 picks? Or did we until Price pick in 2018?

I think back and see a lot of:

OT's
CB's
WR's
Some RB"s (not round 1)
QB

I really don't see a lot of :

LB's
DT's
TE's
Interior OL

It appears we draft to manage the cap as all the positions we draft a lot are the high paid positions. I understand we need to manage the cap and the talent, but maybe too one sided on managing the cap the past 8 or 9 years is our issue with draft philosophy.

[BengalFanInNJ]

(11-25-2018, 01:22 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Do we pigeon hole any round 1 and round 2 picks? Or did we until Price pick in 2018?

I think back and see a lot of:

OT's
CB's
WR's
Some RB"s (not round 1)
QB

I really don't see a lot of :

LB's
DT's
TE's
Interior OL

It appears we draft to manage the cap as all the positions we draft a lot are the high paid positions. I understand we need to manage the cap and the talent, but maybe too one sided on managing the cap the past 8 or 9 years is our issue with draft philosophy.

Well, we supposedly have about $57m in cap space for next year. Or, in Hobson money, about $12m. That's the 10th highest I believe. The UFA we have that is worth a damn is Dennard and possibly Redmond since he's a starter. I have a bad feeling they will try to extend Redmond and Hart and leave the line as is. If they do, they still need to go out and get an OT since Ogbuehi and Fisher are free-agents and hopefully gone. 

They could extend Boling since his contract runs out at the end of 2019. Same thing with Bernard. Heck, they also could be daring if they let Burfict go which would save just under $7m in cap space, but also create almost $2m in dead money and the Bengals don't like dead money. 

If it were me, I would see who the best OT is out there that is still in their mid to late 20's and prepare to pay them a out $12-15m a year. That would settle the line a bit for the next 2-3 years if you ask me. 

[THE PISTONS]

(11-25-2018, 01:44 AM)Jakeypoo Wrote: I would say our last three drafts have been good the problem is we haven't done Jack but loose people in free agency.
2016- Jackson, Boyd, Billings, and Vigil
2017- Mixon, Glasgow, Lawson
2018 Price, Bates, Hubbard.

I feel like Boyd is probably a Pro Bowl WR now, so that's good.

Jackson, Mixon, Glasgow, and Bates have all produced at a high level thus far at times in their career.

We'll see. The weird thing here is we've had rookies look good who regressed. A guy like Gresham comes to mind.

William Jackson has regressed thus far. Lawson sort of did as he stopped getting sacks early in the year.

[804 fan]

(11-24-2018, 08:43 PM)XsandOs Wrote: Bingo!

My thoughts exactly, he even said he wasnt too excited about playing the slot but he would do what asked

[J24]

(11-25-2018, 02:47 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I feel like Boyd is probably a Pro Bowl WR now, so that's good.

Jackson, Mixon, Glasgow, and Bates have all produced at a high level thus far at times in their career.

We'll see. The weird thing here is we've had rookies look good who regressed. A guy like Gresham comes to mind.

William Jackson has regressed thus far. Lawson sort of did as he stopped getting sacks early in the year.

Jackson had a bad first 4 weeks since then he has been good also Lawson was getting hits on the QB and pressure not sacks though. Both of those guys are legit.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-25-2018, 01:22 PM)Luvnit2 Wrote: Do we pigeon hole any round 1 and round 2 picks? Or did we until Price pick in 2018?

I think back and see a lot of:

OT's
CB's
WR's
Some RB"s (not round 1)
QB

I really don't see a lot of :

LB's
DT's
TE's
Interior OL

It appears we draft to manage the cap as all the positions we draft a lot are the high paid positions. I understand we need to manage the cap and the talent, but maybe too one sided on managing the cap the past 8 or 9 years is our issue with draft philosophy.

Yes! We mainly draft positions that are paid a lot in free agency as they are cheap labor for 5 years with 1st Round picks.

And we draft at positions where we have upcoming free agents. ie Drafting Eifert when we had Gresham. Ced and Fisher when Smith and Whitworth were going to be free agents, etc.

When you do that, you don't really add talent. You either replace talent with equal talent or go backwards. We've went backwards.

Imagine if we kept Whitworth and added at another position of need like LB?

[THE PISTONS]

(11-25-2018, 08:33 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Jackson had a bad first 4 weeks since then he has been good also Lawson was getting hits on the QB and pressure not sacks though. Both of those guys are legit.

By Good...Jackson has been about average.

It honestly doesn't matter. This team has soo many holes on defense and offense. We could debate who the issues are for hours. It's not worth it.

We've 6-8 upgrades away from competing.

We just got smashed by a team that almost broke the NFL record for consecutive road losses.

[J24]

(11-25-2018, 09:25 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: By Good...Jackson has been about average.

It honestly doesn't matter. This team has soo many holes on defense and offense. We could debate who the issues are for hours. It's not worth it.

We've 6-8 upgrades away from competing.

We just got smashed by a team that almost broke the NFL record for consecutive road losses.

1.) Jackson has been good as of late even PFF has said so.
2.) This team doesn't have that many holes it on defense it has one and it is at LB( which says alot about how bad our LBers are). The rest of the positions are in fine shape. Any defensive Coordinator would take our secondary and defensive line.
3.) 6-8 is a bit strong 4 to six is more accurate. RT, RG, Off LB, OFF LB, and TE.  That's not saying we have all pros at all positions but it's a good roster besides those two areas.