Duke

[J24]

With all the talk about Marvin and the coaching staff needing to go one person who never gets any blame is the guy who actually is responsible for picking the players and that is Duke? Why is this guy never critisized by the media or fans.
He has lost Whitworth, Zeitler, Marvin Jones, and Mohammed Sanu. Yet he really has only replaced one of them with a better player and that is Boyd over Sanu.
On top of that he hasn't signed an impactful free agent in a while and it seems he has more failures in the draft then success.
I don't mind if they fire Marvin or not but they have to find away to get better players then they are right now.

[jj22]

Duke should be on the hot seat after the last 3 draft classes have flopped. Specifically our first round picks. He won't be tho.

[BengalChris]

(11-21-2018, 05:25 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: With all the talk about Marvin and the coaching staff needing to go one person who never gets any blame is the guy who actually is responsible for picking the players and that is Duke? Why is this guy never critisized by the media or fans.
He has lost Whitworth, Zeitler, Marvin Jones, and Mohammed Sanu. Yet he really has only replaced one of them with a better player and that is Boyd over Sanu.
On top of that he hasn't signed an impactful free agent in a while and it seems he has more failures in the draft then success.
I don't mind if they fire Marvin or not but they have to find away to get better players then they are right now.

You are correct. He should be criticized more.

But, the first thing to know that no draft pick happens without Mikey's approval.

Secondly, Duke isn't in charge of re-signing players, nor is he the GM.

Thirdly, and I should probably be more specific when I chastise the front office for the drafting, as I also mean Duke Tobin. He was the guy who wanted John Ross, while Marv wanted a Alabama LB (forget his name). I think Marv was right about that one. Mike Brown sided with Tobin and we got Ross.

Fourthly, Mike Brown generally signs free agents who have been cut by their former team so that the signing doesn't cost him any comp picks. This does limit the team's options in free agency. Also, no free agent is signed without Mikey's approval and he's a lot more picky about free agents than he is draft picks even though there is a lot more film on free agents.

[motoarch]

Sanu gets way more credit than he deserves. He wasn’t that good and jones was hardly on the field. I feel like jones was getting by on what could have been verse what was

I know this isn’t really to your over all point but I get so sick of hearing about what a loss they were. Sanu was easily replaced with lafell and jones wasn’t worth the money he wanted. Tobin didn’t let him get away, he want r1 money and wasn’t signing with us for anything less.

[Whatever]

(11-21-2018, 05:25 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: With all the talk about Marvin and the coaching staff needing to go one person who never gets any blame is the guy who actually is responsible for picking the players and that is Duke? Why is this guy never critisized by the media or fans.
He has lost Whitworth, Zeitler, Marvin Jones, and Mohammed Sanu. Yet he really has only replaced one of them with a better player and that is Boyd over Sanu.
On top of that he hasn't signed an impactful free agent in a while and it seems he has more failures in the draft then success.
I don't mind if they fire Marvin or not but they have to find away to get better players then they are right now.

A big difference between teams that draft well and teams that don't is that teams that draft well year after year do a good job of developing the talent they get. That falls on coaching.

Take Malik Jefferson.  He's a physical freak of a LB who's big knock is poor awareness.  So we sit him on the bench in favor of washed up Vinnie Rey and Hardy Nickerson when he needs reps to develop that awareness.

[fredtoast]

(11-21-2018, 05:31 PM)jj22 Wrote: Duke should be on the hot seat after the last 3 draft classes have flopped. Specifically our first round picks. He won't be tho.

You think Price and William Jackson are busts?

[fredtoast]

(11-21-2018, 06:03 PM)What Wrote: Take Malik Jefferson.  He's a physical freak of a LB who's big knock is poor awareness.  So we sit him on the bench in favor of washed up Vinnie Rey and Hardy Nickerson when he needs reps to develop that awareness.

You can't play a guy who is not ready to contribute.  That is silly.  Give him a year to learn then see how he does.

[jj22]

WJIII has struggled and we must admit coming off of last season he's been a disappointment. Not bust, but when is the last probowler Duke has drafted? Has he drafted one since 2011? It's about to be 2019.

No judgment on Price yet as he hasn't played hardly (which in of itself is unfortunately one of the problems with not getting much out of our first round picks the first couple years).

I will say I'm not as high on Price as I was (and I'm not sure I really was at 21) when we drafted him.

[Whatever]

(11-21-2018, 06:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can't play a guy who is not ready to contribute.  That is silly.  Give him a year to learn then see how he does.

Yeah, you're probably right.  The Ravens probably would have just crammed the ball down our throats with the run game if we put Jefferson in.  Oh, wait...

[McC]

(11-21-2018, 06:06 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You think Price and William Jackson are busts?

Jackson didn't play at all his rookie year, had a great year last year and has gone way backwards.  So, you could hardly call him a star.  And who knows about Price?  He's been out most of the year.  And he hasn't exactly jumped off the tape since he came back.  I personally like both of them but neither one seems any closer to stud than bust at the moment.

[McC]

(11-21-2018, 06:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You can't play a guy who is not ready to contribute.  That is silly.  Give him a year to learn then see how he does.

Yeah, he might miss tackles, be in the wrong spot and not cover anybody when asked to do so and that job is already taken.

[fredtoast]

(11-21-2018, 06:09 PM)jj22 Wrote: when is the last probowler Duke has drafted? Has he drafted one since 2011? It's about to be 2019.

Eifert in '13 and I believe Marvin Jones ('12) went to a Pro Bowl with the Lions.

[McC]

(11-21-2018, 07:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Eifert in '13 and I believe Marvin Jones ('12) went to a Pro Bowl with the Lions.

So, two in eight years and one of them did it with another team.

[Shake n Blake]

The lack of an official "GM" title shields him from criticism he'd otherwise receive, but it's also deflected any credit from him over to Marv.

Personally, I think (based on articles I've read) that Duke has the biggest role in shaping this roster inside of the parameters he's given.

So yes...I do think Duke should be on the hot seat along with Marv and his staff. That said, it's unlikely they will be, cuz Mike.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-21-2018, 06:03 PM)Whatever Wrote: A big difference between teams that draft well and teams that don't is that teams that draft well year after year do a good job of developing the talent they get. That falls on coaching.

Take Malik Jefferson.  He's a physical freak of a LB who's big knock is poor awareness.  So we sit him on the bench in favor of washed up Vinnie Rey and Hardy Nickerson when he needs reps to develop that awareness.

To me, Jefferson was just a pick thrown away.  Sure, he's got all those "wow" physical traits, but what he lacks is football instinct.  You think that can be taught, especially with our LB coaches?  I'm pretty sure that Jefferson would have likely been there in the 5th round.  We could have got a decent Guard, Tackle, or even TE with that 3rd round pick.  I'm not so keen on that Walton selection either, but he really does have time to develop.

But, as for Duke Tobin?  Yeah, he's been slipping, or so it would seem.  This team needs a REAL GM in charge of football operations.  Just turn it over, tell him "Here's the salary cap, do what you must.".  That doesn't mean that Katie can't still be the chief contract negotiator, or any of the other current administrative staff for the team can't keep their current jobs, just turn the football part over to an actual GM.

[Shake n Blake]

(11-21-2018, 07:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Eifert in '13 and I believe Marvin Jones ('12) went to a Pro Bowl with the Lions.

Didn't see any pro bowls listed for Marvin Jones.

So 1 pro bowler since 2011? And it was Eifert, who gets injured by a stiff wind.

That's...not good.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-21-2018, 08:17 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: The lack of an official "GM" title shields him from criticism he'd otherwise receive, but it's also deflected any credit from him over to Marv.

Personally, I think (based on articles I've read) that Duke has the biggest role in shaping this roster inside of the parameters he's given.

So yes...I do think Duke should be on the hot seat along with Marv and his staff. That said, it's unlikely they will be, cuz Mike.

You beat me to it,

Tobin not being an actual GM is just sorta a guy whispering in Mike's ear "draft this guy" and Mike and Merv either take the advice or not which therefore shields him from any accountability. I'd guess they've took his advice some but not always.

Like all things Bengals no accountability.

[*jason*]

(11-21-2018, 08:24 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Didn't see any pro bowls listed for Marvin Jones.

So 1 pro bowler since 2011? And it was Eifert, who gets injured by a stiff wind.

That's...not good.

Tyler Boyd will soon be in that Pro Bowl discussion. But yeah, not many really good players making their way to Cincinnati lately.

Also to your point... I do believe Eifert was injured in the Pro Bowl.

[BengalsRocker]

Honestly I think Duke has a better chance of going to the front officeas GM(if it ever happens)than Marvin.

Don't really want either.  

[fredtoast]

(11-21-2018, 08:24 PM)Shake n Blake Wrote: Didn't see any pro bowls listed for Marvin Jones.

So 1 pro bowler since 2011? And it was Eifert, who gets injured by a stiff wind.

That's...not good.

And since 2011 we have lost Pro Bowlers Jermain Gresham, Andrew Whitworth, Adam Jones, and Reggie Nelson, plus key starters Marvin Jones, Kevin Zeitler, Andre smith, Domata Peko, Leon Hall, and Terrance Newman.

We have only added one free agent (Brown) and one trade (Glenn) but yet we are still a .500 team in the middle of a playoff chase.

Just shows how amazing our coaching is that we can suffer all these high quality losses, struggle in the draft, add no real quality free agents, and still be doing better than most of the teams in the league.