Done with Daltin

[*bfine32*]

(01-27-2019, 11:19 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Seems the idea of drafting a QB is gaining momentum. Read an article this morning discussing possibilities of trading up to the 5th spot with Tampa bay. Man, we are all gonna go crazy with speculation till draft. https://bengalswire.usatoday.com/2019/01/27/2019-nfl-mock-draft-bengals-blockbuster-trade-dwayne-haskins/

Sure would be nice to get a HC and OC in here and get their thoughts on AD and the draft. If we go with what is rumored I think they'll work with Andy and try to show they can make a difference with an average NFL starter.  

[Atomic Orange]

Few players aside - the majority of the Bengals could be considered "average" under Marvin Lewis. He wasn't that good at getting the best out of his players. The ones that were able to overcome him would look that much better on say, the Patriots.

Look what bill did with Marquis. Rex just put them in the SB.

Chad's head was messed up/

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-27-2019, 11:49 AM)SHRacerX Wrote: I don't get this at all.  Not sure if you are just trying to flame folks or what, but the bottom line is:  When Dalton (sp) is given even a small modicum of protection, he carves teams up like a surgeon.  He drove down the field with what should have been the winning score against pitt.  He brought them back against Atlanta.  And he did all this with an outdated coaching scheme.  

He will flourish under the new regime and make a lot of folks owe him an apology.

Dalton is not, and never has been, the problem.

Give him a bit more protection, and just have decent, experienced starters, and watch out.  

(01-27-2019, 01:40 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: It was never a excuse it was the reason. How is it that some of can see Marvin's entire teamS sucked in PT/PO and some cant? Baffles me.

Yep

[BengalChris]

(01-27-2019, 01:40 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: It was never a excuse it was the reason. How is it that some of can see Marvin's entire teamS sucked in PT/PO and some cant? Baffles me.

Oh, don't get me wrong, I do believe it was time for Marvin to go, beyond time really, and he was definitely a reason. So has Mike Brown been a reason, a big, big reason.

However, it all can't be piled onto the coaching staff year after year after year. At some point the players have to do it. No one else can do it for them.

If it wasn't Marvin's ultra lame approach, it was the OC's play calling. If not that, it was that AJ Green missed time. If it wasn't that then it was something else and something else.

At some point one has to succeed with the cards dealt and after enough years of so many different hands there comes a point where people notice that the QB never actually stepped up when given a chance in the playoffs. One TD, 6 INTs, 4 FUMs and zero wins in four straight goes is probably the best example of a QB not stepping up as can exist. Many lessor QBs have done better in the playoffs.

The 2019 season will be key to Dalton's career. He'll be going into the final year of his deal after this coming season and the team will be looking at a draft with a number of good QB prospects in it and needing to decide about extending Dalton beyond 2020 or moving on. The 2019 season will be very, very important to Dalton. IMHO

I actually believe Dalton can take the next step, but I'm also perfectly willing to support drafting a new QB in 2020 and moving on if he doesn't.

If I were the Bengals front office, that is exactly how I'd be looking at this coming season.

 

[*jason*]

(01-27-2019, 01:40 PM)Atomic Orange Wrote: It was never a excuse it was the reason. How is it that some of can see Marvin's entire teamS sucked in PT/PO and some cant? Baffles me.

We drafted nothing but choke artists for 16 years... Every last one of them.

[*jason*]

(01-27-2019, 02:56 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Oh, don't get me wrong, I do believe it was time for Marvin to go, beyond time really, and he was definitely a reason. So has Mike Brown been a reason, a big, big reason.

However, it all can't be piled onto the coaching staff year after year after year. At some point the players have to do it. No one else can do it for them.

If it wasn't Marvin's ultra lame approach, it was the OC's play calling. If not that, it was that AJ Green missed time. If it wasn't that then it was something else and something else.

At some point one has to succeed with the cards dealt and after enough years of so many different hands there comes a point where people notice that the QB never actually stepped up when given a chance in the playoffs. One TD, 6 INTs, 4 FUMs and zero wins in four straight goes is probably the best example of a QB not stepping up as can exist. Many lessor QBs have done better in the playoffs.

The 2019 season will be key to Dalton's career. He'll be going into the final year of his deal after this coming season and the team will be looking at a draft with a number of good QB prospects in it and needing to decide about extending Dalton beyond 2020 or moving on. The 2019 season will be very, very important to Dalton. IMHO

I actually believe Dalton can take the next step, but I'm also perfectly willing to support drafting a new QB in 2020 and moving on if he doesn't.

If I were the Bengals front office, that is exactly how I'd be looking at this coming season.

 

The thing is they actually did do it. The last playoff game against Pittsburgh, they did it. They slugged that game out, and won it. Then Jeremy Hill fumbles. That's on him, not Marvin, Mike Brown, Paul Alexander, or Andy Dalton. That was in Jeremy Hill... Even then, the defense had held Pittsburgh's explosive offense in check all night. They could e made a stop to save the game. Instead their lack of discipline reared its ugly head. That was on the coaching staff. Nobody on our sideline noticed Jerry Porter was in the field? Nobody thought it would be a good idea to call our players to the sideline when he was out there? I just seem to remember Burfict playing in a much more controlled manner when Zimmer was here. The ankle twisting, and what not started happening in 2014. Pacman's always been a loose cannon.

[Atomic Orange]

(01-27-2019, 03:17 PM)jason Wrote: The thing is they actually did do it. The last playoff game against Pittsburgh, they did it. They slugged that game out, and won it. Then Jeremy Hill fumbles. That's on him, not Marvin, Mike Brown, Paul Alexander, or Andy Dalton. That was in Jeremy Hill... Even then, the defense had held Pittsburgh's explosive offense in check all night. They could e made a stop to save the game. Instead their lack of discipline reared its ugly head. That was on the coaching staff. Nobody on our sideline noticed Jerry Porter was in the field? Nobody thought it would be a good idea to call our players to the sideline when he was out there? I just seem to remember Burfict playing in a much more controlled manner when Zimmer was here. The ankle twisting, and what not started happening in 2014. Pacman's always been a loose cannon.

One bad call and Sean Payton is literally crying to the league after the game. Bengals get ****** over and over and nothing from Mike nor Marvin.

[Natifan]

(01-27-2019, 12:28 PM)BengalChris Wrote: Just more excuses. When a player takes years and years of excuses at some point you have to understand that player is not at the high end.

Ken Anderson won passing titles. In today's game Dalton is a 1,000 to 2,000 yards behind the passing leaders. That's how you can rank him with all those pass enhancing rules we now have, none of which existed when Anderson won the passing title two years in a row back in the 70s.

We'll see how Taylor does with him. Getting back to the playoffs would be a good start. Not folding in the playoffs would be better.

Take Daltons 8 years and compare them with Kennys first 8 years. Let me give you some advice. You don't want to go there. Lol.

All of kennys accolades came after 10 years in the league.

It isn't even close.

[jmccracky]

If Kenny Anderson played in the current league, he would be putting up 5,000+ yards every year and a 75% completion rate. It's ridiculous he isn't in the HOF.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-27-2019, 04:39 PM)Natifan Wrote: Take Daltons 8 years and compare them with Kennys first 8 years. Let me give you some advice. You don't want to go there. Lol.

All of kennys accolades came after 10 years in the league.

It isn't even close.

That is a great idea, most won't bother to actually look closely, but here goes.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AndeKe00.htm


http://www.nfl.com/player/andydalton/2495143/careerstats

[BengalsRocker]

(01-27-2019, 03:17 PM)jason Wrote: The thing is they actually did do it. The last playoff game against Pittsburgh, they did it. They slugged that game out, and won it. Then Jeremy Hill fumbles. That's on him, not Marvin, Mike Brown, Paul Alexander, or Andy Dalton. That was in Jeremy Hill... Even then, the defense had held Pittsburgh's explosive offense in check all night. They could e made a stop to save the game. Instead their lack of discipline reared its ugly head. That was on the coaching staff. Nobody on our sideline noticed Jerry Porter was in the field? Nobody thought it would be a good idea to call our players to the sideline when he was out there? I just seem to remember Burfict playing in a much more controlled manner when Zimmer was here. The ankle twisting, and what not started happening in 2014. Pacman's always been a loose cannon.

That whole game our players were acting undisciplined.

Burfict was doing cheap stuff(extra knee into Big Ben), Jeremy Hill was getting into scrums, and lastly frickin' Peko who was supposedly a leader was running onto the field with his jacket on an pushing a player in front of a ref.  Burfict running into the tunnel waving goodbye.

That's aside from our meek HC who didn't have the nuts to ever get in a refs ear the whole time here.

All of that before the fumble and the dumb shit penalties that iced the game.

They got beat by a lesser Steelers squad that had Landry Jones at the helm and an injured Rapelisburger.

I'd say Marvin had company in his choke show.

It was a sad thing.

If anything I can say this team chokes pretty creatively.

Merv and Brown can hang their dunce caps on that.

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-27-2019, 05:36 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: That is a great idea, most won't bother to actually look closely, but here goes.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/A/AndeKe00.htm


http://www.nfl.com/player/andydalton/2495143/careerstats

What a lot of guys that weren't around back then don't understand is that everybody and I mean EVERYBODY wanted Kenny Anderson canned in the late 70's and 1980 season ! 

Every game he played the first incomplete pass or whatever and the announcers would go on a ten minute rant about when is Anderson going to be replaced, he's washed up, bring on the backup yada, yada.

Nearly every Bengals fan you talked to wanted him gone. Things changed in 1981

[*bengalfan74*]

(01-27-2019, 06:02 PM)BengalsRocker Wrote: That whole game our players were acting undisciplined.

Burfict was doing cheap stuff(extra knee into Big Ben), Jeremy Hill was getting into scrums, and lastly frickin' Peko who was supposedly a leader was running onto the field with his jacket on an pushing a player in front of a ref.  Burfict running into the tunnel waving goodbye.

That's aside from our meek HC who didn't have the nuts to ever get in a refs ear the whole time here.

All of that before the fumble and the dumb shit penalties that iced the game.

They got beat by a lesser Steelers squad that had Landry Jones at the helm and an injured Rapelisburger.

I'd say Marvin had company in his choke show.

It was a sad thing.

If anything I can say this team chokes pretty creatively.

Merv and Brown can hang their dunce caps on that.

Exactly ! The complete lack of accountability and discipline rests squarely on the shoulders of one Marvin Lewis.

[fredtoast]

(01-27-2019, 06:15 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: What a lot of guys that weren't around back then don't understand is that everybody and I mean EVERYBODY wanted Kenny Anderson canned in the late 70's and 1980 season ! 

Every game he played the first incomplete pass or whatever and the announcers would go on a ten minute rant about when is Anderson going to be replaced, he's washed up, bring on the backup yada, yada.

Nearly every Bengals fan you talked to wanted him gone. Things changed in 1981

The Bengals used the #3 pick of the 79 draft on Anderson's replacement, Jack Thompson from Washington State.

From '78-'80 Anderson was only 13-26 as a starter with fewer passing tds (32) than games. He threw 45 ints, and his passer rating over those three years was 68.9.  After getting benched opening day '81 for going 5-15 for 39 yds and 2 picks it was amazing to fans that he was still the starter week 2.  But he ended the season as the league MVP.

1981 was Andersons 11th season in the NFL and he had never won a single playoff game.

Never say never.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-27-2019, 06:15 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: What a lot of guys that weren't around back then don't understand is that everybody and I mean EVERYBODY wanted Kenny Anderson canned in the late 70's and 1980 season ! 

Every game he played the first incomplete pass or whatever and the announcers would go on a ten minute rant about when is Anderson going to be replaced, he's washed up, bring on the backup yada, yada.

Nearly every Bengals fan you talked to wanted him gone. Things changed in 1981

I remember.  Everyone was all about Jack Thompson, The throwin' Samoan..

http://www.nfl.com/player/jackthompson/2527335/profile


Kind of like when so many were clamoring for AJ McCarron to be played in place of Andy..  The parallels are kind of eerie.

[fredtoast]

(01-27-2019, 06:45 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: I remember.  Everyone was all about Jack Thompson, The throwin' Samoan..

http://www.nfl.com/player/jackthompson/2527335/profile


Kind of like when so many were clamoring for AJ McCarron to be played in place of Andy..  The parallels are kind of eerie.

McCarron was drafted as a back up.  Thompson was the #3 pick in the first round.  He was drafted to replace Anderson.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-27-2019, 06:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: McCarron was drafted as a back up.  Thompson was the #3 pick in the first round.  He was drafted to replace Anderson.

Well, I guess it's all in perspective.  I seem to remember many around here that really seemed to think that McCarron was drafted to replace Dalton.  End result of both situations is the same, incumbent starter survives backup, and remains with team after backup is down the road.

[Natifan]

(01-27-2019, 05:28 PM)jmccracky Wrote: If Kenny Anderson played in the current league, he would be putting up 5,000+ yards every year and a 75% completion rate. It's ridiculous he isn't in the HOF.

Behind today's line he be disabled or retired. Lol

[Nicomo Cosca]

(01-27-2019, 07:12 PM)Natifan Wrote: Behind today's line he be disabled or retired. Lol

Nonsense. What is allowed as a sack these days is not even close to what defenders used to get away with.

[SunsetBengal]

(01-27-2019, 07:20 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Nonsense. What is allowed as a sack these days is not even close to what defenders used to get away with.

Exactly, I remember Ken Anderson being spun around by his facemask, resembling a helicopter rotor.