It's time we moved on from Price

[THE PISTONS]

(11-25-2018, 09:55 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Pretty much, if this team doesn't score with cant' miss prospects, they seem to fail to properly develop, or timely develop talent to the level of their expected production level coming out of college.  One, a couple, or even a few is to be expected, as some guys just simply don't pan out.  However the number of Bengal selections that seem to underperform is looking to be more than just a mere coincidence or simply "bad luck".  In my opinion, it points more to coaching style and how said talent is groomed to succeed, or fail.

With all the injuries too we consistently have, I wonder if our Strength and Conditioning Program is up to par.

You ever wonder about that?

[SunsetBengal]

(11-25-2018, 09:57 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: With all the injuries too we consistently have, I wonder if our Strength and Conditioning Program is up to par.

You ever wonder about that?

Hmm, I don't know if I pin the injuries on the strength and conditioning department.  I don't have hard stats to supply, but it seems to me that injuries have been an increasing problem throughout the league, ever since they put a severe cut into the amount of contact practice time that teams can have.  Those contact practices have a way of tempering a body to get accustomed to the bone jarring hits from games.  When you take that practice contact away, the body just isn't ready for it in live action. (to my way of thinking, at least)

Another thing to consider is the proliferation of nutrition plans and strength programming at the college level.  Some of those programs seem to be able to build athletes up, so that they can hold their own with the more genetically gifted, in the college ranks.  But, when they come to the pro level, and don't have that structured system laid out on a rigorous schedule, they fail to maintain that same level of physical optimum that they had in college.  When you take overachieving, regular genetics guys, and put them in the NFL pool with all of the genetic elites, they seem to crumble.

Now, keep in mind, that is all just my personal opinion, based on what I've seen and read from any number of sources over the years.  

[THE PISTONS]

(11-25-2018, 10:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Hmm, I don't know if I pin the injuries on the strength and conditioning department.  I don't have hard stats to supply, but it seems to me that injuries have been an increasing problem throughout the league, ever since they put a severe cut into the amount of contact practice time that teams can have.  Those contact practices have a way of tempering a body to get accustomed to the bone jarring hits from games.  When you take that practice contact away, the body just isn't ready for it in live action. (to my way of thinking, at least)

Another thing to consider is the proliferation of nutrition plans and strength programming at the college level.  Some of those programs seem to be able to build athletes up, so that they can hold their own with the more genetically gifted, in the college ranks.  But, when they come to the pro level, and don't have that structured system laid out on a rigorous schedule, they fail to maintain that same level of physical optimum that they had in college.  When you take overachieving, regular genetics guys, and put them in the NFL pool with all of the genetic elites, they seem to crumble.

Now, keep in mind, that is all just my personal opinion, based on what I've seen and read from any number of sources over the years.  

I think some of the injuries are from the rule changes. Like not being able to tackle certain ways, makes you tackle other ways thus hurting different parts of the body.

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-25-2018, 10:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Hmm, I don't know if I pin the injuries on the strength and conditioning department.  I don't have hard stats to supply, but it seems to me that injuries have been an increasing problem throughout the league, ever since they put a severe cut into the amount of contact practice time that teams can have.  Those contact practices have a way of tempering a body to get accustomed to the bone jarring hits from games.  When you take that practice contact away, the body just isn't ready for it in live action. (to my way of thinking, at least)

Another thing to consider is the proliferation of nutrition plans and strength programming at the college level.  Some of those programs seem to be able to build athletes up, so that they can hold their own with the more genetically gifted, in the college ranks.  But, when they come to the pro level, and don't have that structured system laid out on a rigorous schedule, they fail to maintain that same level of physical optimum that they had in college.  When you take overachieving, regular genetics guys, and put them in the NFL pool with all of the genetic elites, they seem to crumble.

Now, keep in mind, that is all just my personal opinion, based on what I've seen and read from any number of sources over the years.  

I remember watching a sports science show a few years back and the focus on this one was MMA fighters, boxers, the different martial arts and so on. And it showed with MRI's, X-rays and stuff how a regular persons bones and ligaments would never be able to take the impact torque and pressure they put on theirs. Their bones actually get thicker from all the impacts and so on.

So I don't doubt in the least that the greatly reduced full contact practice is having an effect.

[SunsetBengal]

(11-25-2018, 10:36 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I remember watching a sports science show a few years back and the focus on this one was MMA fighters, boxers, the different martial arts and so on. And it showed with MRI's, X-rays and stuff how a regular persons bones and ligaments would never be able to take the impact torque and pressure they put on theirs. Their bones actually get thicker from all the impacts and so on.

So I don't doubt in the least that the greatly reduced full contact practice is having an effect.

Yes, exactly!  I may have seen the same, or a similar documentary on body tempering from conditioning by hard impact stress.

[*rfaulk34*]

(11-25-2018, 09:57 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: With all the injuries too we consistently have, I wonder if our Strength and Conditioning Program is up to par.

You ever wonder about that?

Every game. I've been spouting off about it for a few weeks now.

[bengalsturntup926]

(11-25-2018, 07:48 PM)sonofstat Wrote: I don't think you can move on from your rookie rd1 pick at this point.

That said I have not understood in other threads where people have the love for Price...i'm not sure he has been that much of an upgrade on Bodine.

I was arguing that Trey Hopkins did a pretty good job as starter and i think giving Price the starting job back was presumptuous and perhaps not sending the right message out.

I remember at the end of last year saying i barely cared out about who played where on the OL...lets just play the best 5 and see if its better.

I would go Glenn - Boling - Hopkins - Westerman - Hart for the rest of the way

Ive been asking can westerman or redmond play tackle? This would be awesome if either could. Redmond and westerman were saviors the last games last year. Mixon was running a lot better. So a combo like this i would try glenn, boling, hopkins, price westerman or redmond. Or we can go glenn boling hopkins westerman redmond . Or we can put glenn on RT and form some other combo. Switch it up. 

[Gamma Ray Tan]

I think Price will be fine, he’s like the 60th thing to worry about with this team

[*bengalfan74*]

(11-25-2018, 11:06 PM)Gamma Ray Tan Wrote: I think Price will be fine, he’s like the 60th thing to worry about with this team

Yep, on the very long list of Bengal Problems Price is a lot closer to the bottom than the top.

[THE PISTONS]

(11-25-2018, 11:14 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: Yep, on the very long list of Bengal Problems Price is a lot closer to the bottom than the top.

It's hard to rank the problems.

-4 offensive lineman.
-A number 3 WR.
-A starting TE.
-3 LB's. 2 if Burfict gets his act together.
-HC and coaching.

-The line gets no pressure. Maybe a DE?

[*bfine32*]

Not sure how good he is at football. Hopkins looked much better at C.

[Nebuchadnezzar]

(11-25-2018, 10:36 PM)H bengalfan74 Wrote: I remember watching a sports science show a few years back and the focus on this one was MMA fighters, boxers, the different martial arts and so on. And it showed with MRI's, X-rays and stuff how a regular persons bones and ligaments would never be able to take the impact torque and pressure they put on theirs. Their bones actually get thicker from all the impacts and so on.

So I don't doubt in the least that the greatly reduced full contact practice is having an effect.

(11-25-2018, 10:46 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Yes, exactly!  I may have seen the same, or a similar documentary on body tempering from conditioning by hard impact stress.

I saw a documentary a while back comparing the bones of gladiators to others from the same time and it too showed greater bone density and strength. Then the documentary compared the gladiator bones to modern athlete and it showed that they have the same density and strength. This was before the new CBA and I wonder if the lack of full pad/contact practice has weakened the modern football player.

The documentary also explained that there was a lot less death in the arena than is portrayed since gladiators were worshipped and very expensive like the modern athlete. 

[The Real Deal]

Maybe (definitely) all of our players stink because of coaching? Look around the league at teams that get production out of players that aren’t superstars. Our superstars are good (Green, Mixon,Atkins,Dunlap), but they’d be good anywhere. Afterthat who produces under the “role player” category? Tyler Boyd and then who? Player development around here is a joke. And until the coaching changes that will remain the same.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-24-2018, 12:43 AM)The Real Deal Wrote: Maybe (definitely) all of our players stink because of coaching? Look around the league at teams that get production out of players that aren’t superstars. Our superstars are good (Green, Mixon,Atkins,Dunlap), but they’d be good anywhere. Afterthat who produces under the “role player” category? Tyler Boyd and then who? Player development around here is a joke. And until the coaching changes that will remain the same.

Calling Dunlap a superstar is a stretch.

But yes the coaching here is a problem. Look at Bodine’s improvement in Buffalo.

[The Real Deal]

(12-24-2018, 12:50 AM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Calling Dunlap a superstar is a stretch.

But yes the coaching here is a problem. Look at Bodine’s improvement in Buffalo.

Lol notice I named him last. I only added him because I figured I’d get killed by people of I didn’t.

[wolfkaosaun]

I'm not ready to move on from him (just like I'm not ready to move on from Ross)
But he has definitely not been good this year. He's had some good moments.

It's best to take someone's full rookie season without labeling them a bust or GOAT. It's all about the development in the next year or 2.

[KillerGoose]

Price has quite honestly been terrible this year. He still has plenty of time to develop, hopefully we see an improvement next year.

[*jason*]

I don't pay enough attention, but does anyone know how Ragnow that everybody wanted is doing this year? It's funny cause I remember a lot of us were so excited about Cordy Glenn, and Billy Price. Cheering that Bodine was gone and shit... Then I think Brad reported from TC that the D-line was getting all kinds of pressure... Turns out the only line that can do that to is our own.

[RASCAL]

(11-25-2018, 10:26 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Hmm, I don't know if I pin the injuries on the strength and conditioning department.  I don't have hard stats to supply, but it seems to me that injuries have been an increasing problem throughout the league, ever since they put a severe cut into the amount of contact practice time that teams can have.  Those contact practices have a way of tempering a body to get accustomed to the bone jarring hits from games.  When you take that practice contact away, the body just isn't ready for it in live action. (to my way of thinking, at least)

Another thing to consider is the proliferation of nutrition plans and strength programming at the college level.  Some of those programs seem to be able to build athletes up, so that they can hold their own with the more genetically gifted, in the college ranks.  But, when they come to the pro level, and don't have that structured system laid out on a rigorous schedule, they fail to maintain that same level of physical optimum that they had in college.  When you take overachieving, regular genetics guys, and put them in the NFL pool with all of the genetic elites, they seem to crumble.

Now, keep in mind, that is all just my personal opinion, based on what I've seen and read from any number of sources over the years.  

you pretty honestly nailed it. In my opinion when the league started to make the players wear TuTus, seems injuries have gone up! Maybe not!

[*pally*]

(12-24-2018, 01:58 AM)jason Wrote: I don't pay enough attention, but does anyone know how Ragnow that everybody wanted is doing this year? It's funny cause I remember a lot of us were so excited about Cordy Glenn, and Billy Price. Cheering that Bodine was gone and shit... Then I think Brad reported from TC that the D-line was getting all kinds of pressure... Turns out the only line that can do that to is our own.

Ragnow is playing guard not center.  

I'm not willing to write off Price this early in his career.

There are only a handful of centers who make a real impact in the rookie seasons.  Its just a totally different position in the NFL than it is in college.  More under center, more complicated defenses, more complicated line play.  Add to that missing OTAs, rehabbing from an upper extremity injury, getting the ankle hurt in his 2nd game, injuries to other linemen and the QB, and seriously subpar play from the majority of his other lineman and you have the recipe for a really tough rookie season.