Ohio State Haskins will be Great NFL QB

[Jpoore]

(12-10-2018, 01:06 AM)Whatever Wrote: This is a bad QB class, so in that sense, it makes sense for Haskins to come out so he can get the best rookie contract possible.  However, for his long term development, he needs at least another year at the college level.  He lacks game experience, and riding the pine for a year or two won't fix that, but if he comes in as a rookie and gets shellshocked, he's ruined.

You see him make some great pro type throws, but then you see guys having to completely stop and wait on the ball or make circus catches.  Some underthrows on posts and flags in the end zone turn easy pitch and catches into contested catches after his receiver makes a tough adjustment.  It really feels to me like the talent around him is elevating him more than he is elevating the talent around him a lot of the time.  I would personally want to see at least one more year out of him given that other OSU QB's came out strong then fell to earth.

Don't forget that he's playing in a horrible scheme. Meyer's scheme is zone reads focused on underneath and drag routes. They should have molded the scheme to fit Haskins. That's why he underthrow and overthrows some balls. Look at him when day was hc. Looked unstoppable.

[Whatever]

(12-12-2018, 03:38 PM)Jpoore Wrote: Don't forget that he's playing in a horrible scheme. Meyer's scheme is zone reads focused on underneath and drag routes. They should have molded the scheme to fit Haskins. That's why he underthrow and overthrows some balls. Look at him when day was hc. Looked unstoppable.

Urban likes to run rubs underneath to get his guys in space, which makes perfect sense because his skill guys are almost always superior athletes.

Of course Haskins looked great when Day was HC.  Look at who he played. Oregon State won 2 games all year.  Rutgers won one.  TCU was the only thing close to a real opponent in that stretch, but they only wound up 6-6 after giving OSU a scare.  Both Oklahoma and WVU hung more on TCU than Haskins and the Bucks.  I'd expect any decent college starter to set fire to those dumpsters with the talent Haskins has around him.

[Au165]

The scheme didn't change and it was much more vertical than you guys are making it out to be. He made a lot of NFL quality intermediate throws and had his moments with the deep ball. They also ran very little zone read this year because Haskins isn't a runner, they were designed inside or outside zone hand offs with Haskins "showing" a keeper after just to attempt to keep teams honest. This was actually one of the most different offenses we have seen in Meyer's tenure at OSU and it is most likely because Haskins was one of the least mobile QB's he has had.

As for the issues, like most QB's it comes down to his mechanics breaking down. This was often due to pressure in the pocket not allowing him to step into his throws. In the NFL he will have to get better at sliding in the pocket to find space to throw, but a couple times when he was on the run he did a really good job of squaring his shoulders and making touch passes. I think it shows he has some potential in "scramble" situations to be serviceable, but he will never be Russell Wilson.

[Jason_NC]

(12-12-2018, 09:12 PM)Whatever Wrote: Urban likes to run rubs underneath to get his guys in space, which makes perfect sense because his skill guys are almost always superior athletes.

Of course Haskins looked great when Day was HC.  Look at who he played. Oregon State won 2 games all year.  Rutgers won one.  TCU was the only thing close to a real opponent in that stretch, but they only wound up 6-6 after giving OSU a scare.  Both Oklahoma and WVU hung more on TCU than Haskins and the Bucks.  I'd expect any decent college starter to set fire to those dumpsters with the talent Haskins has around him.

Haskins destroyed the best defense in college football.

[kevin]

The Bengals gained nothing by sitting Carson Palmer a year. All it did was make him a pure rookie in his second year. He learned nothing on the bench. Like a big strong Terry Bradshaw or Big Ben, you want to get Haskins right in there. This isn't baseball where you send pitchers to the minors. College is the NFL minor league. You draft Haskins and you get him in there. He will be a big strong armed rookie. Terry Bradshaw was rough his first years, but he learned while playing. Same with Boomer Esiason, he was rough at first. So was Ken Anderson. You have to get them on the field though for them to develop to a higher level. We can look at the rookie QBs for Chiefs, Browns and some others to see you don't put a round 1 QB on the bench a year. Doing that with Carson was stupid.

Dalton is a good QB, but Haskins has all the signs of being a Super Bowl great quarterback. I do compare him to Big Ben because of his size and strong arm and he is hard to tackle. Not that he runs like Fran Tarkenton, but that he is big and hard to tackle just like Big Ben. Now Big Ben from Miami of Ohio got away from us. I don't want to see Haskins going to Steelers or Ravens and beating our brains in the next 15 years.

As for Ohio State QB history, announcers say you can not compare Haskins to any other Ohio State QB. He is the most NFL ready QB they have ever had. Bigger, Stronger. Not a run pass option Ohio State QB, but a pure passer. He can run out of trouble like a Big Ben, but he is a passer. All the announcers of the games say you can not compare him to any other Ohio State QB in the past. His breaking Brees and Brady records is for real. I think he may have broke Peyton Manning records. He is unlike any other Ohio State QB. Bigger, Stronger, Better. Plays very much like Big Ben, as you will see in Rose Bowl.

As for where Bengals might be in the draft and Haskins might go ahead of us, there is no law that says you can't trade up.

[Whatever]

(12-20-2018, 08:28 AM)Jason_NC Wrote: Haskins destroyed the best defense in college football.

And Purdue's defense was ranked 103rd.

[*Synric*]

(12-10-2018, 01:06 AM)Whatever Wrote: This is a bad QB class, so in that sense, it makes sense for Haskins to come out so he can get the best rookie contract possible.  However, for his long term development, he needs at least another year at the college level.  He lacks game experience, and riding the pine for a year or two won't fix that, but if he comes in as a rookie and gets shellshocked, he's ruined.

You see him make some great pro type throws, but then you see guys having to completely stop and wait on the ball or make circus catches.  Some underthrows on posts and flags in the end zone turn easy pitch and catches into contested catches after his receiver makes a tough adjustment.  It really feels to me like the talent around him is elevating him more than he is elevating the talent around him a lot of the time.  I would personally want to see at least one more year out of him given that other OSU QB's came out strong then fell to earth.

But it could also be a good year for a QB if the bengals decide not to force a 1st rounder. I can see Drew Lock or Will Grier sneak into the bottom of the first but you also have guys like Ryan Finley Jarret Stidham Daniel Jones Clayton Thorsen that will be Day 2 picks.

[Au165]

(12-20-2018, 12:22 PM)Synric Wrote: But it could also be a good year for a QB if the bengals decide not to force a 1st rounder. I can see Drew Lock or Will Grier sneak into the bottom of the first but you also have guys like Ryan Finley Jarret Stidham Daniel Jones Clayton Thorsen that will be Day 2 picks.

I still contend Daniel Jones is the late riser no one sees coming and ends up a Raider for one of their late 1st's. He fits what Gruden wants to do so well it's nuts. 

[*Synric*]

(12-20-2018, 01:59 PM)Au165 Wrote: I still contend Daniel Jones is the late riser no one sees coming and ends up a Raider for one of their late 1st's. He fits what Gruden wants to do so well it's nuts. 

I was actually thinking if Jay doesn't get a QB in the first then Daniel Jones would be ideal for him in the 2nd.

[*bengalfan74*]

I think Haskins has a lot of what makes a good pro QB. Way more so than the QB's to come out of Ohio St. over the last decade or so. I really believe he'll break the mold !

But I also think he needs another year in College. He had some serious bouts of indecision thru the middle of the season, had some pretty bad throws, got some spells of happy feet and so on. He needs some more seasoning.

[Jason_NC]

(12-20-2018, 11:18 AM)Whatever Wrote: And Purdue's defense was ranked 103rd.

And he put 470 yards on them.  That game was about defense and inability to run the ball.

[Whatever]

(12-20-2018, 07:52 PM)Jason_NC Wrote: And he put 470 yards on them.  That game was about defense and inability to run the ball.

He threw the ball 73 times against Purdue.  His YPA was only 6.4.  The only reason he had big raw yardage is he threw a ridiculous number of times.  Run game, defense or not, if we're talking Haskins as the first QB off the board and dumping Andy for him, he should be able to beat a 6-6 team with a crap defense with his arm, especially when he's throwing it 73 times and especially with the talent around him on offense.

Seriously, what is so great about Haskins?  He can beat teams IF he doesn't get too much pressure in the pocket, you can run the ball, his receivers turn 5 yard throws into 50 yard TD's, the receivers make circus catches, and the D plays well.  

[kevin]

(12-20-2018, 04:14 PM)bengalfan74 Wrote: I think Haskins has a lot of what makes a good pro QB. Way more so than the QB's to come out of Ohio St. over the last decade or so. I really believe he'll break the mold !

But I also think he needs another year in College. He had some serious bouts of indecision thru the middle of the season, had some pretty bad throws, got some spells of happy feet and so on. He needs some more seasoning.

As I said early on, I have no idea which draft he will be in.  Just that I would love to see Bengals get him.  The guy that asks what is so great about Haskins must have never seen him play.  What is great about him is he has Big Ben, Boomer Esiason size with a great passing arm. He can avoid sacks and is hard to tackle like Big Ben. He is no Cam Newton, more like Big Ben.  Dalton is good, but Dalton has to force the long throws more, not that much arm. Haskins has way more arm than Dalton.  You could just tell with college Elway, Montana, Marino, Manning, Rivers, Brees and it's the same with Haskins.  People can talk Driskel or 2nd round picks, but if you want play-off wins and Super Bowls, you go for Haskins.  Just watch the Rose Bowl. 

[Whatever]

(12-21-2018, 03:21 AM)kevin Wrote: As I said early on, I have no idea which draft he will be in.  Just that I would love to see Bengals get him.  The guy that asks what is so great about Haskins must have never seen him play.  What is great about him is he has Big Ben, Boomer Esiason size with a great passing arm. He can avoid sacks and is hard to tackle like Big Ben. He is no Cam Newton, more like Big Ben.  Dalton is good, but Dalton has to force the long throws more, not that much arm. Haskins has way more arm than Dalton.  You could just tell with college Elway, Montana, Marino, Manning, Rivers, Brees and it's the same with Haskins.  People can talk Driskel or 2nd round picks, but if you want play-off wins and Super Bowls, you go for Haskins.  Just watch the Rose Bowl. 

I think pretty much everybody on these boards has seen plenty of Haskins 

Haskins is nowhere close to Big Ben, build wise.  Haskins is 6'3", 218 and Piggy is listed at 6'5", 241, but actually plays at 260+.  He has NFL size, but is not a monster QB by any stretch.

A big reason you want a QB with a big arm is so they can still make throws when they can't get their feet set and their mechanics break down.  As Au165 pointed out, Haskins short arms throws when he can't set his feet and square his shoulders.  He doesn't have an elite arm like a Rodgers or Big Ben.

[Au165]

(12-21-2018, 10:38 AM)Whatever Wrote: I think pretty much everybody on these boards has seen plenty of Haskins 

Haskins is nowhere close to Big Ben, build wise.  Haskins is 6'3", 218 and Piggy is listed at 6'5", 241, but actually plays at 260+.  He has NFL size, but is not a monster QB by any stretch.

A big reason you want a QB with a big arm is so they can still make throws when they can't get their feet set and their mechanics break down.  As Au165 pointed out, Haskins short arms throws when he can't set his feet and square his shoulders.  He doesn't have an elite arm like a Rodgers or Big Ben.

Most college QB's short arm their throws when under pressure, Haskins has the arm talent though to make plenty of throws when he can't use his lower body sometimes they don't go well. My issue more so is he sometimes slides up into the pocket when he shouldn't making his mechanics worse. His touch is better than most the QB's I have seen in this class, which is a really under rated aspect of QB's. A lot of guys throw heaters even on a short crossing route and it can cause tipped passes and drops. He is underrated in his decision making, he runs a full field spread with multiple reads that use NFL concepts. He does plenty of the screen game stuff, but his intermediate ball get's lost in that as he does a good job on intermediate routes throwing guys open. His deep ball needs some work, but I think a team that isn't vertical based like an old Bruce Arians offense will be fine with where he is now and hope he can build a bit on it.

There are no "clean" prospects in this class, but I think what gets you excited about Haskins is his ceiling. 

[Jason_NC]

(12-21-2018, 12:33 AM)Whatever Wrote: He threw the ball 73 times against Purdue.  His YPA was only 6.4.  The only reason he had big raw yardage is he threw a ridiculous number of times.  Run game, defense or not, if we're talking Haskins as the first QB off the board and dumping Andy for him, he should be able to beat a 6-6 team with a crap defense with his arm, especially when he's throwing it 73 times and especially with the talent around him on offense.

Seriously, what is so great about Haskins?  He can beat teams IF he doesn't get too much pressure in the pocket, you can run the ball, his receivers turn 5 yard throws into 50 yard TD's, the receivers make circus catches, and the D plays well.  

He has a + arm.  Good release.  Accurate.  

Circus catches?  Have you watched OSU?  Most of his passes have been right where you want them.

McShay currently has him his #1 QB.

[Whatever]

(12-24-2018, 12:06 AM)Jason_NC Wrote: He has a + arm.  Good release.  Accurate.  

Circus catches?  Have you watched OSU?  Most of his passes have been right where you want them.

McShay currently has him his #1 QB.

Rewatching the Purdue game, Haskins misses McLahrin wide open on a deep ball and the shortarms him on an out in the endzone that allows the DB to catch up and make a play on the ball to hold the Bucks to 3 after Purdue took the lead late in the first.  Wright had to make a tough catch on their first drive when he tried to sit down in the zone and Haskins threw it too far ahead of him.  He short armed Mack on a comeback on 3rd down midway through the second, forcing another punt. Several screens thrown to the wrong shoulder throughout the 1st quarter.  Throws one well behind Campbell at 5:00 Mark.  Shortarms Hill over the middle and nearly picked around 4:00 Mark.  Hits big play to Hill that could have been a TD if Hill doesn't have to slow up for the ball, allowing CB back into the play.  Overthrows Dixon in the end zone.  Drive ends in no points after great pass breakup and missed FG.  

2nd half starts uptempo and all screens except for a drop by Dixon and an incomplete jump ball in the endzone.  FG for OSU.  Horribly underthrows a wide open Mack on a deep fly, but gets bailed out when CB runs through Mack when he tries to stop and come back for the ball.  Misses Farrell badly, DB gets away with contact because of uncatchable ball.  Throws one behind Victor, but bailed out by great catch.  Drive ends in no points after Haskins fails on run from the 4 and WR screen on 4th down dropped.  Nearly pick 6'd on out route.  Terrible throw to Dixon under pressure leads to 3 & out.  Free blitzer up the middle on that one. Throws way behind Hill on screen pass.  28-6 now with 11:39 left.  Nearly picked again.  Otherthrows Victor.  Way behind Harrison.  Weber stopped well short on another screen.  Screen to Weber to convert 4th down.  Victor with great contested catch on ball thrown behind him.  Dixon wide open for long TD.  35-13 w/6:46 left, now.  Fumbles snap, but recovers.  Pulled back too quickly.  Drop by Victor.  Purdue playing soft.  Flip pass high for Mclaurin, but caught.  Drop by Hill.  Hits McLaurin in stride for TD.  42-20 with 3:37 left.  Garbage time at OSU 1.  Guess they trotted Haskins out there to pad those stats.  Misses high to Hill. Keeps throwing check downs.  Pick 6 on horrible throw.  Way behind his receiver.  Moping on bench with his head in his hands.  49-20 w/2:08 left.  Still running screens.  Misses high to Weber under pressure.  Awkward slide after short scramble.  Dropsies infecting OSU now, Weber this time.  Ballgame.

Overall, a couple of really good intermediate throws, but some really bad throws.  The offense gives him a LOT of easy completions, and even some of those were dicey, with a ton of screens and shallow crossing routes designed to get guys space to work.  The big difference between this game and every other OSU game this year is the Bucks simply could not get the huge RAC plays they generally get.  Purdue did a good job of keeping the short game in front of them, getting off blocks, and making tackles.  They gave up lots of 5-10 yard screens, but not the back breaking huge plays you typically see and they made OSU settle for FG's early.  Kid has a tendency to overthrow a receiver, then overcorrect and short arm throws on the same drive or vice versa.  That will lead to a ton of picks in the pros if it's not corrected.  Deep ball accuracy needs a ton of work.  This is an entirely different ballgame if he could simply hit the numerous receivers he had wide open for TD's with anything even resembling a catchable ball.  You see the touch on short passes Au165 mentioned, but he blasted a couple in there too hard.  He threw head level and hard on a WR screen on 4th and goal.  WR should make that catch, but he definitely could have made it a lot easier on him.  Didn't really see a lot of great leadership characteristics out of him in this one.  Gets happy feet sometimes and doesn't seem like the type to stare down the gun barrel and deliver a strike.  Accuracy seems to come and go and it's like they're using all the screen stuff to calm him down and rebuild his confidence sometimes.  Got fooled a few times when Purdue showed blitz, then backed out at last second.

Right now, he very much has the look of a guy being elevated by the talent around him.  The announcers even mentioned in this one that it's the first time OSU has had 3 guys with 1000 career receiving yards at the same time, which tells you the kind of talent he has around him.  The gaudy passing numbers are a product of OSU being forced to rely more on the short passing game to make up for a QB who is ineffective as a runner after having a true dual threat for so long.

At best, I think Haskins is an Alex Smith/Andy Dalton type QB.  Good enough to win games with enough talent around him and a good offensive scheme, but not a guy who's going to carry a team on his back.  More likely, he's a 3-6 year backup, then out of the league.

[Jpoore]

(12-21-2018, 12:33 AM)Whatever Wrote: He threw the ball 73 times against Purdue.  His YPA was only 6.4.  The only reason he had big raw yardage is he threw a ridiculous number of times.  Run game, defense or not, if we're talking Haskins as the first QB off the board and dumping Andy for him, he should be able to beat a 6-6 team with a crap defense with his arm, especially when he's throwing it 73 times and especially with the talent around him on offense.

Seriously, what is so great about Haskins?  He can beat teams IF he doesn't get too much pressure in the pocket, you can run the ball, his receivers turn 5 yard throws into 50 yard TD's, the receivers make circus catches, and the D plays well.  

Bc he's playing in a horrible system. He's running 20+ times a game. His game is a deep ball thrower. Urban Meyer's is 5 yard drag catch and runs. Their system is completely opposite of what they should be.

[kevin]

I think some on here are Dalton Fans, Driskel Fans or just don't like Ohio State. Haskins will be a star in the NFL. Not just start, he will have a Hall Of Fame type career. If not for Bengals, for another team. I would almost bet for another team considering Bengals always miss out on the great players in drafts.

[kevin]

I think some on here are Dalton Fans, Driskel Fans or just don't like Ohio State. Haskins will be a star in the NFL. Not just start, he will have a Hall Of Fame type career. If not for Bengals, for another team. I would almost bet for another team considering Bengals always miss out on the great players in drafts. Again, Haskins can't be compared to any other Ohio State QB. He has NFL size and arm and is hard to tackle like Big Ben and can break out of tackles and still make plays like Big Ben. He broke college passing records of Brees, Brady, Manning. Michigan was #2 in USA with the #1 defense and Haskins beat the heck out of them. I suggest everybody watch the Rose Bowl New Years Day. You will see one of the future superstars of the NFL in Haskins. Don't look for typical Ohio State run option QB. Haskins is a pocket QB, but he can run a little if the blocking breaks down. He is a passer more than a runner. Ohio State had to adjust to him, because he is NOT the typical Buckeyes run pass option type. He is a pure pocket QB, very rare for Ohio State.