Andy Dalton fanboy

[Whatever]

(12-02-2018, 11:59 AM)The Real Deal Wrote: That’s been me for a while now. I witnessed him helping to bring some “reaching the playoffs” consistency to a franchise and a fan base that was starving for it. I saw him appear to break into some elite categories in 2015. I saw potential.

But that has since disappeared. I’m over it. I’m ready to move on. But where am I moving on to?

Ladies and gentlemen, I present to you Dwayne Haskins. Now anyone and everyone that cannot stand Ohio state, take the blinders off for a moment. The kid is good. Good head on his shoulders, elite arm strength, breaks down man and zone coverages well, and on top of that has just enough mobility to be able to escape the pocket and make plays. He is going to play on sundays, and he is going to play well. So why not here?

The problem is that it would take losing out to even have a remote shot at getting him. But the kid can play and I think he could bring some serious excitement to Cincinnati for a very long time. He could be special.

I say we go for it.

I'm not trying to be a hater, but seriously, there have been these discussions for nearly every OSU QB since Troy Smith.  Smith, Prior, Barrett, Cardale, etc, etc.  If we miss out on Haskins, don't worry, we might be able to get Tate Martell in a year or two.

Urban Meyer's system has either done a terrible job of preparing elite QB talent for the pro's or a great job of making above average QB talent look elite.  In all his years, the best pro QB he's produced is still Tim Tebow, for Pete's sake.  

A big concern I have is that both Barrett and Jones looked unstoppable the year Braxton went down, then both went straight downhill.  If Haskins declares, is he the real deal or just getting out before he gets exposed?

[CornerBlitz]

(12-02-2018, 09:11 PM)Whatever Wrote: I'm not trying to be a hater, but seriously, there have been these discussions for nearly every OSU QB since Troy Smith.  Smith, Prior, Barrett, Cardale, etc, etc.  If we miss out on Haskins, don't worry, we might be able to get Tate Martell in a year or two.

Urban Meyer's system has either done a terrible job of preparing elite QB talent for the pro's or a great job of making above average QB talent look elite.  In all his years, the best pro QB he's produced is still Tim Tebow, for Pete's sake.  

A big concern I have is that both Barrett and Jones looked unstoppable the year Braxton went down, then both went straight downhill.  If Haskins declares, is he the real deal or just getting out before he gets exposed?

Haskins has the physical tools to be a great NFL QB and backed it up by breaking a bunch of BIG 10 records.  None of the other QBs you mentioned had a season like Haskins and more importantly none of those QBs have the physical tools like Haskins.

I'm not saying Haskins is going to be a great QB, but please do not attempt to make the case that because he's a Buckeye that he won't pan out. 

[Fan_in_Kettering]

(12-02-2018, 09:18 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Haskins has the physical tools to be a great NFL QB and backed it up by breaking a bunch of BIG 10 records.  None of the other QBs you mentioned had a season like Haskins and more importantly none of those QBs have the physical tools like Haskins.

I'm not saying Haskins is going to be a great QB, but please do not attempt to make the case that because he's a Buckeye that he won't pan out. 

The offensive weapons Ohio State has are unbelievable. There are no weak links on that team, especially the starters. Dwayne Haskins is a great player but he’s also surrounded by great players who are coached by great coaches.

[Whatever]

(12-02-2018, 09:18 PM)CornerBlitz Wrote: Haskins has the physical tools to be a great NFL QB and backed it up by breaking a bunch of BIG 10 records.  None of the other QBs you mentioned had a season like Haskins and more importantly none of those QBs have the physical tools like Haskins.

I'm not saying Haskins is going to be a great QB, but please do not attempt to make the case that because he's a Buckeye that he won't pan out. 

Pryor and Cardale had better physical tools than Haskins.

No doubt he had a great year, but he's had a ton of talent around him, and as I said, a lot of OSU QB's start strong and then fall to earth.  I would like to see him return to school and back it up before I would go all in on him, as I would like from any other QB.  

Haskins could be the first OSU QB to become a franchise QB in the NFL, or he could be another in a long line of guys overhyped by the fan base.  I think it's fair to discuss the school and the coach's history particularly when the main reason we're having the discussion is because of the school Haskins plays for.

[*Synric*]

(12-02-2018, 09:24 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: The offensive weapons Ohio State has are unbelievable.  There are no weak links on that team, especially the starters.  Dwayne Haskins is a great player but he’s also surrounded by great players who are coached by great coaches.

(12-02-2018, 10:08 PM)Whatever Wrote: Pryor and Cardale had better physical tools than Haskins.

No doubt he had a great year, but he's had a ton of talent around him, and as I said, a lot of OSU QB's start strong and then fall to earth.  I would like to see him return to school and back it up before I would go all in on him, as I would like from any other QB.  

Haskins could be the first OSU QB to become a franchise QB in the NFL, or he could be another in a long line of guys overhyped by the fan base.  I think it's fair to discuss the school and the coach's history particularly when the main reason we're having the discussion is because of the school Haskins plays for.

What's your guys stance on Tua Tagovailoa?  

Ohio State Alabama Georgia Clemson Oklahoma etc...these teams are always going to have a lot of talent at a lot of potions because they recruit well and players want to play for them.

That doesn't discount what Haskins has done this year. He has put himself in the first round conversation with HIS play.

[Whatever]

(12-02-2018, 10:22 PM)Synric Wrote: What's your guys stance on Tua Tagovailoa?  

Ohio State Alabama Georgia Clemson Oklahoma etc...these teams are always going to have a lot of talent at a lot of potions because they recruit well and players want to play for them.

That doesn't discount what Haskins has done this year. He has put himself in the first round conversation with HIS play.

It's a similar situation.  He's a one year wonder from a stacked program whose coach hasn't put out a quality NFL starter before.

We have a franchise caliber QB.  We really shouldn't be betting the farm on one year wonders in a bad QB class.

[fredtoast]

(12-02-2018, 12:24 PM)The Real Deal Wrote:  But why, if the opportunity would present itself, would you not want to draft a kid with the talent Haskins has? 

Because we have a limited number of draft picks and a lot of needs that are greater than QB.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-02-2018, 12:26 PM)Au165 Wrote: Haskins will end up being QB1 when it’s all said and done and we won’t be drafting high enough to get there. Next years class is way better than this one replace Marvin this year and get a year of Dalton with a new coach. If your still not happy you have a much better selection to work from next  season.

This.....or even the following year.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-02-2018, 12:38 PM)Millhouse Wrote: Anyone that breaks a major record in the Big10 held by Drew Brees should immediately be given some thought.

If he is there when we pick, I say go for it. He can sit a year behind Andy and wait until the following the year to start.

Different era.

[sandwedge]

There are not that many teams in the NFL that would even entertain the thought of trading for a QB. I can only think of maybe 3 that might, but I doubt they would offer us what we would need for Dalton. I don't think Andy is the problem for the record. The crap show in front of him is the problem.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-02-2018, 07:26 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: I'd rather have Haskins than Tom Savage. Savage is about the ceiling of QB Mike Brown would sign in free agency. So as much as people want Dalton gone, I wouldn't hold my breathe on signing an improvement through free agency. It's going to have to be the draft. 2020 looks like our best chance at that.

Agreed.....unless they could trade Dalton, get Bridgewater in FA, and draft a QB.  I do have issue with Haskins looking at recent OSU QBs and then QBs from Urban Meyer's system in general.  If memory serves, the only one to pan out was Alex Smith, and that took a while.  That said, he looks very good at the college level for damn sure.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-02-2018, 08:11 PM)muskiesfan Wrote: I get what you're saying but Core and Ross has to take the brunt of the blame for their play. I do believe better coaching could help Ross by trying to use him in other ways, but he has to shoulder the bulk of the responsibility for his play. Ross gives up on plays where he thinks he may not get the ball, he gives on plays when the ball is thrown to him, and he half asses other times as well. That's not on Dalton.

Cody Core is not going to be made into a good player by ANY QB.  He's been hit squarely in the hands by both of our QBs and dropped pass after pass, yesterday's TD notwithstanding.....his first in what, 3 years now?

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-02-2018, 10:08 PM)Whatever Wrote: Pryor and Cardale had better physical tools than Haskins.

No doubt he had a great year, but he's had a ton of talent around him, and as I said, a lot of OSU QB's start strong and then fall to earth.  I would like to see him return to school and back it up before I would go all in on him, as I would like from any other QB.  

Haskins could be the first OSU QB to become a franchise QB in the NFL, or he could be another in a long line of guys overhyped by the fan base.  I think it's fair to discuss the school and the coach's history particularly when the main reason we're having the discussion is because of the school Haskins plays for.

As you can see from my prior post, I totally agree about Urban Meyer's system.  It's kinda like RBs out of Bama, only Mark Ingram has really set the world on fire.  Their QBs are much the same as well.....I guess the last good QB was Stabler?  I'm not sold on their current QB either.....I mean, he has a great arm, and he looks really good out there, but he does often have time to check through 5 progressions, read his email, check FB, and then see if anyone has gotten open....lol.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-02-2018, 10:22 PM)Synric Wrote: What's your guys stance on Tua Tagovailoa?  

Ohio State Alabama Georgia Clemson Oklahoma etc...these teams are always going to have a lot of talent at a lot of potions because they recruit well and players want to play for them.

That doesn't discount what Haskins has done this year. He has put himself in the first round conversation with HIS play.

Clemson is the different animal.....Watson has played well out of Dabo's system, and the Lawrence kid looks like the real deal, and unseated the incumbent as a true freshman.  Time will tell.....as it will for the rest as well.

[Whatever]

(12-03-2018, 05:19 PM)Wyche Wrote: As you can see from my prior post, I totally agree about Urban Meyer's system.  It's kinda like RBs out of Bama, only Mark Ingram has really set the world on fire.  Their QBs are much the same as well.....I guess the last good QB was Stabler?  I'm not sold on their current QB either.....I mean, he has a great arm, and he looks really good out there, but he does often have time to check through 5 progressions, read his email, check FB, and then see if anyone has gotten open....lol.

If you're going all in and trading up for a QB, it has to be the type of QB that elevates the players around him, not a guy who gets elevated by the players around him.  Often, with these huge programs, you get the latter, not the former. You get those game manager types.

As much of a deal is made about Haskins breaking Brees' records, I guarantee you Haskins has way more talent around him.  Brees had no choice but to elevate the guys around him, and even then, he didn't stick with the Chargers. He didn't enter elite status until he went to NO.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-03-2018, 05:56 PM)Whatever Wrote: If you're going all in and trading up for a QB, it has to be the type of QB that elevates the players around him, not a guy who gets elevated by the players around him.  Often, with these huge programs, you get the latter, not the former. You get those game manager types.

As much of a deal is made about Haskins breaking Brees' records, I guarantee you Haskins has way more talent around him.  Brees had no choice but to elevate the guys around him, and even then, he didn't stick with the Chargers. He didn't enter elite status until he went to NO.

A lot of truth in that.  Brees shattered records at PURDUE.  That's saying something.  

[The Real Deal]

(12-02-2018, 09:11 PM)Whatever Wrote: I'm not trying to be a hater, but seriously, there have been these discussions for nearly every OSU QB since Troy Smith.  Smith, Prior, Barrett, Cardale, etc, etc. 

For what it’s worth I have wanted exactly zero of those quarterbacks. Troy Smith was undersized . Terrell Pryor was never a good quarterback. JT Barrett was a good athlete but an awful quarterback. And Cardale Jones had a big arm, But he was dumb as a box of rocks. Drafting any of those QBs would have been a huge mistake.

Haskins is much different. He is unlike any QB Ohio state has ever had and to compare and label him because of past turds is close minded.

[*Synric*]

(12-03-2018, 07:06 PM)The Real Deal Wrote: For what it’s worth I have wanted exactly zero of those quarterbacks. Troy Smith was undersized . Terrell Pryor was never a good quarterback. JT Barrett was a good athlete but an awful quarterback. And Cardale Jones had a big arm, But he was dumb as a box of rocks. Drafting any of those QBs would have been a huge mistake.

Haskins is much different. He is unlike any QB Ohio state has ever had and to compare and label him because of past turds is close minded.

OSU ran more of a straight up passing attack this year because of Haskins too. 

[The Real Deal]

(12-02-2018, 10:08 PM)Whatever Wrote: Pryor and Cardale had better physical tools than Haskins.

This couldnt be anymore false. Pryor was an athlete first that proved to be inaccurate. And look, cardale jones is no doubt a legend in Columbus but in all honesty, had a big arm and benefited from catching lightning in a bottle. And that was helped by JT Barrett not being able to throw a good pass to save his life. Teams were gameplannong for read option right, read option left, handoff up the middle. Then cardale came in and took the top off of unsuspecting defenses.

So sure those two were physical specimens, but what they had did not translate to the NFL game.

Haskins has all the right physical tools and there is absolutely no reason to believe they won’t translate.

The comparisons are night and day.

[BengalChris]

I'm not what anyone would call an Andy Dalton fan. Yes I've seen potential. Yes I've harped repeatedly on his playoff and big game bad QB play a LOT.

However, and I am ready for the team to move on, I don't believe getting rid of Dalton is the right thing to do at this time. If we draft a QB, no matter who it is, there's going to be problems.

This team is nowhere near as talented as the one ending the 2010 season. Dalton came in and had a good OL in front of him, Benson to carry the rock and probably the next Bengal HoFer in AJ Green, plus he had a good OC in Gruden and a great DC in Zimmer to make for the best coordinators this team has had in decades.

The next Bengals QB will be coming in to a team with a horrible OL, unknowns at OC and DC, and likely a retread HC no one respects. The only bright spots will be Mixon and Green followed by a bunch of receivers who have incurable cases of either the butterfingers or lost-in-route-itis. (Let's face it, Mike Brown will not pay Boyd.)

So, I'm all for keeping Dalton and making him bear the brunt of the badness that is this team for another season while, hopefully a new coach can fix things and make the team better able to put a green QB behind center.

I don't believe in Mike Brown decisions. He makes the wrong decisions at the wrong times all most every time. If he had fired Marvin after the 2016 season or the 2014 season the next HC would have at least had superior talent to work with. Now it's just a mass rebuild mess.