Rex Ryan for head coach

[Bilbo Saggins]

The 09 and 10 Jets teams were absolutely stacked with talent, aside from the QB position.  I really don't see a point in arguing against that - those teams were dominant in the trenches and didn't really have glaring holes. Once that roster began to dissipate, Ryan failed to crack .500. He had another chance after the Jets with the Bills in 2015 and 2016, posting records of 8-8 and 7-8. In both the year prior to and the year after his coaching tenure in Buffalo, the Bills finished 9-7. It would seem as though Rex is nothing special, basically a more boisterous version of Lewis who likes to run exotic 3-4 blitz schemes and say zany things from time to time. 

[grampahol]

(12-04-2018, 01:36 PM)Bengalfan4life27c Wrote: I will take a conference championship appearance. I at least want to celebrate a playoff win before i'm dead. 27 years and counting dont care if we go 2- 30 next 2 seasons after that.

2-30 would be good enough for Marvin to get another chance as long as both wins were the last game of the season.. The Bungles couldn't even get the translation of Carpe Diem right. Carpe Deyem?

Don't feel too bad, you've only had 27 years worth of Bungling to grind your teeth to  ... In the immortal words of my old man.. Wait'll you get to be my age.. He's 90 by the way .

[grampahol]

Dave Shula dammit! I want a legitimate reason to complain about our horrible head coach.. I'm sure there's PLENTY sons of pretty good head coaches who have absolutely no experience in coaching who could at least get us to the promised land of the first pick of the draft for a few decades. We could have multiple generational disappointments where there's never even a thought of winning a playoff game.. If we're gonna screw up let's not mess around. Screw up in grand style ! 

Hey! Maybe Mike Brown himself will name himself as the new head coach , offensive coordinator, defensive coordinator and quarter back all at the same time! Then we would never have to be disappointed with yet another playoff loss.. 

[Bengalholic]

(12-04-2018, 07:09 PM)XsandOs Wrote: A few points to consider:

1) Lewis is the first HC hire for PB Jr., who has won here. It allowed him to buy back the last 30% share and take sole control. So that loyalty is hard to break.

2) Lewis is no longer a HC in the sense that we are discussing here. He is not a game planner/caller, like Reid, Payton, Pederson, Reich, McVay (who is actually a glorified OC). Lewis is a Team/Personnel Manager. And that has its place in NFL too.

3) Lewis succeeds when he has capable OC and DC (Gruden, Zimmer, Jackson).

So, if you fire Lewis, who do you bring in as HC, and more importantly, why?

If it is for more offense, then who and why? We already run a WC and were the first Team to run an innovative RPO regularly. Majority of Teams run a version of WC. So what is the difference? If you bring in Chip Kelley, what does he bring beyond his mesh concept?

If it is for more defense, who do you bring in and why? The rules changes and WC/RPO wrinkles requires defenses to adapt. Zones are no longer effective because RPOs overload on one side and overwhelm the zone. No one has shown to be able to counter them. Belichek and Phillips could not stop Reid, Phillips Man couldn't counter Payton's 21 (Kamara on a LB and TE running a stick).

If you use Marinelli as an example of who can stop Payton, remember that Dallas has familiarity with Payton's schemes from his days in Dallas. Marinelli is no genius.

We have two advanced offensive minds on our staff, and there is no viable defensive mind out there that guarantees success against the current schemes.

So again, if Lewis is fired, who do you suggest as replacement. And why?     

Good post and some good questions brother. 

I'll start with RPO. You sound like you think the rise of the RPO in the NFL is more than just a fad that will eventually pass or be scaled back in it's usage, and instead think it's here to stay and will continue to be a part of more and more offenses? I'm just not convinced of that. There are also some coaches, NFL and college, that don't think so either. I read a couple of really good articles about that awhile back. They talk a lot about things like extra exposure for QB's and incorporating it into an overall offensive philosophy. I'll post them when I find them again.

Anyway, when looking for a new head coach, specifically the Bengals...it has to be someone who is willing to wear different hats and be able to work closely with Mike, Katie and Duke. That's what they were used to with Marvin, and I'm sure they will be looking for the same in whoever the next head coach is, especially if they go outside. As it relates to players and approach...I think you need someone who is respected and the players can genuinely get excited about, someone who you feel understands and can adapt the an ever changing NFL, and someone that you feel comfortable building around and investing in...because the Bengals do not like moving on from head coaches.

Some of the guys I think they should look at (if Marvin were to leave or get fired) would be coordinators or Asst HC's like LaFleur, Dan Campbell, Bettcher, Flores, DeFilippo, Kris Richard...and a couple of older ones in Fangio and Toub. On the college level, I really like Matt Campbell (Iowa St). I like all these guys for different reasons and think they're all interesting options. One guy on the staff that that's intriguing is Alex Van Pelt.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-05-2018, 04:13 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Good post and some good questions brother. 

I'll start with RPO. You sound like you think the rise of the RPO in the NFL is more than just a fad that will eventually pass or be scaled back in it's usage, and instead think it's here to stay and will continue to be a part of more and more offenses? I'm just not convinced of that. There are also some coaches, NFL and college, that don't think so either. I read a couple of really good articles about that awhile back. They talk a lot about things like extra exposure for QB's and incorporating it into an overall offensive philosophy. I'll post them when I find them again.

Anyway, when looking for a new head coach, specifically the Bengals...it has to be someone who is willing to wear different hats and be able to work closely with Mike, Katie and Duke. That's what they were used to with Marvin, and I'm sure they will be looking for the same in whoever the next head coach is, especially if they go outside. As it relates to players and approach...I think you need someone who is respected and the players can genuinely get excited about, someone who you feel understands and can adapt the an ever changing NFL, and someone that you feel comfortable building around and investing in...because the Bengals do not like moving on from head coaches.

Some of the guys I think they should look at (if Marvin were to leave or get fired) would be Fangio, Toub, LaFleur, Dan Campbell, Bettcher, Flores, DeFilippo, Matt Campbell (Iowa St) and Kris Richard. I like these guys for different reasons and think they're all interesting options. One guy on the staff that that's intriguing is Alex Van Pelt. 

Nice post Holic.

All i would like is for someone who knows how to adjust in the game for our next HC.

Really isn't that much to ask for.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-04-2018, 02:09 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No it would not.

Marvin has a winning record against other NFL coaches while being handicapped by the worst owner in the league.  To suggest that absolutely anyone would be better than him is ridiculous.

I see this same argument made about players all the time, and it makes no sense.  Just because one of our coaches o players is bad that does not mean he is the absolute worst on the planet.

You know what i mean, i just want us to move on from Marv, that would be a start.

I don't mean absolutely anyone would be better.

[XsandOs]

(12-05-2018, 04:13 PM)Bengalholic Wrote: Good post and some good questions brother. 

I'll start with RPO. You sound like you think the rise of the RPO in the NFL is more than just a fad that will eventually pass or be scaled back in it's usage, and instead think it's here to stay and will continue to be a part of more and more offenses? I'm just not convinced of that. There are also some coaches, NFL and college, that don't think so either. I read a couple of really good articles about that awhile back. They talk a lot about things like extra exposure for QB's and incorporating it into an overall offensive philosophy. I'll post them when I find them again.

Anyway, when looking for a new head coach, specifically the Bengals...it has to be someone who is willing to wear different hats and be able to work closely with Mike, Katie and Duke. That's what they were used to with Marvin, and I'm sure they will be looking for the same in whoever the next head coach is, especially if they go outside. As it relates to players and approach...I think you need someone who is respected and the players can genuinely get excited about, someone who you feel understands and can adapt the an ever changing NFL, and someone that you feel comfortable building around and investing in...because the Bengals do not like moving on from head coaches.

Some of the guys I think they should look at (if Marvin were to leave or get fired) would be Fangio, Toub, LaFleur, Dan Campbell, Bettcher, Flores, DeFilippo, Matt Campbell (Iowa St) and Kris Richard. I like these guys for different reasons and think they're all interesting options. One guy on the staff that that's intriguing is Alex Van Pelt. 

Appreciate your response, and I am intrigued by some of the names you have suggested.

I agree with you and felt that exposing QBs to unnecessary hits will deter the option utilization. You may recall the hit Manny Lawson put on RGIII, when we played them a few years ago.

But the rules changes, starting with the 1993 non-intentional grounding, then the 2006 below the knee (I call that the Cowher Rule), QB slide, etc., have protected QBs to the extent that we are now seeing more and more QBs play into their 40s. Additionally; the no contact with receivers beyond 5 yards (I call that the Belicheck anti mugging rule), have allowed cerebral older QBs who lose arm strength, to play longer (Brady, Manning).  

Does that mean that running more options is less risky now? Possibly.

I just think the DCs are in a terrible place right now, because the league is intentionally moving to make the game more exciting, and thus; tilting the advantage to offense.

The issue that the RPO and floods cause is that it can overload a zone and isolate mismatches in Man. And if you get too cute with pass coverage, they pound the ball (Gurley, Hunt and Ingram).

So, I hope one of your defensive suggestions has a bright Idea, my friend. 

To me, this is a very exciting time in NFL. The move on the offense side is very clear - I am interested in the counter-move by defense. It's like waiting to see who could beat Tyson.  

[XsandOs]

(12-05-2018, 04:48 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: You know what i mean, i just want us to move on from Marv, that would be a start.

I don't mean absolutely anyone would be better.

I hear you, Nate.

It might be time to create Lewis a position within the organization that fits his personnel management strengths, and bring in some bright minds to counter these new schemes.

I would like to see Lazor and Jackson retained. When they have the personnel, they show their creativity.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-05-2018, 05:09 PM)XsandOs Wrote: I hear you, Nate.

It might be time to create Lewis a position within the organization that fits his personnel management strengths, and bring in some bright minds to counter these new schemes.

I would like to see Lazor and Jackson retained. When they have the personnel, they show their creativity.

I was for that years ago but now i think it is time to just wash our hands completely of Marv and company.

The only coaches i would keep on would be Van Pelt and Pollack and that is if the new coach wanted them.

Lazor was decent earlier in the season as OC but he hasn't been good this year as a whole.

Hue was a good OC a few years ago but he still has the Marv stench. I think it is time to wash our hands and
start over all the while building a new culture. Think this is the only way we dig ourselves out of this one.

[OBX Bengal]

(12-05-2018, 06:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I was for that years ago but now i think it is time to just wash our hands completely of Marv and company.

The only coaches i would keep on would be Van Pelt and Pollack and that is if the new coach wanted them.

I think Darrin Simmons is worth saving.

[BengalsRocker]

Rex Ryan is a blowhard jackass.

So no thank you to that.


The thing I often ponder is if Marvin had Hue come back aboard so soon to be in Mike's ear about injuries and Merv's hardships this season?

To me it feels like the Austin firing was brought on by the front office more than Marvin himself.

He was a long time friend of Marvin's as well as Hue has been.

Is there a deeper relationship between Hue and Mike Brown that allowed for him to come back because he likes him as much if not more than Marvin.

This really reeks of MB wanting Hue to be the successor no matter what happens.

Sorry folks.

[XsandOs]

(12-05-2018, 06:02 PM)Nate (formerly eliminate08) Wrote: I was for that years ago but now i think it is time to just wash our hands completely of Marv and company.

The only coaches i would keep on would be Van Pelt and Pollack and that is if the new coach wanted them.

Lazor was decent earlier in the season as OC but he hasn't been good this year as a whole.

Hue was a good OC a few years ago but he still has the Marv stench. I think it is time to wash our hands and
start over all the while building a new culture. Think this is the only way we dig ourselves out of this one.

You, and our friend Bengalholic, seem to like Van Pelt.

Just as a matter of principle, I would like to see him here, if Marv is removed. He lost his job twice, when his HC was fired in Buffalo and Tampa.

I feel that Mixon's running style is better suited behind a zone blocking scheme that Pollack uses.   

[Atomic Orange]

" A foot f** and a corpse walk into a bar.."

[ezekiel23]

Rex Ryan,NO,McCarthy,YES

[wolfkaosaun]

No thanks. I respect what he did with the Jets early on. Making the Conference Championship twice in a row is no easy matter, especially for a rookie HC in his first two seasons.

With that said, he hasn't evolved with the game.

I want a new head coach that hasn't been a head coach before.
No Rex Ryan. No Mike McCarthy. No Del Rio. No Hue Jackson.

Give me an up and comer.
Give me Eric Bieniemy. Give me Pete Carmichael Jr. Give me Matt LaFluer. Give me Vic Fangio.

[Bengalfan4life27c]

Coaches aren't always a failure they improve if we hadn't hurt Bledsoe Pats might have fired Belichek. I'm just being realistic this isn't the most exciting job too take. If only we fired Marvin and hired Zimmer after the Steelers game things might be different now

[TheBengalsMind]

I'm a no on Rex Ryan.

I was never a real big fan of him.

I don't even know if we will let Marvin Lewis go. I definitely think its time we did.

I do know we need a defensive coach and if we wanted someone in the Rex Ryan mold, I wouldn't mind going after Mike Singletary as defensive coordinator.

He would definitely bring fire and accountability to this defense. They would be expected to do their job and be in their defensive positions. He would drill them in the fundamentals.

This is a defense that could use his seriousness and straightforwardness.

As far as Marvin Lewis goes, I think fans would take anybody that they feel has a legitimate chance to win and is different than Marvin Lewis.

Even if it's a retread like Herman Edwards (who is coaching again and did a fine job) or Jim Harbaugh or a younger coach like Eric Bieniemy.

I'm not saying it has to be either one of those, but it would be refreshing to see us going in a new direction.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-06-2018, 09:07 AM)TheBengalsMind Wrote: I'm a no on Rex Ryan.

I was never a real big fan of him.

I don't even know if we will let Marvin Lewis go. I definitely think its time we did.

I do know we need a defensive coach and if we wanted someone in the Rex Ryan mold, I wouldn't mind going after Mike Singletary as defensive coordinator.

He would definitely bring fire and accountability to this defense. They would be expected to do their job and be in their defensive positions. He would drill them in the fundamentals.

This is a defense that could use his seriousness and straightforwardness.

As far as Marvin Lewis goes, I think fans would take anybody that they feel has a legitimate chance to win and is different than Marvin Lewis.

Even if it's a retread like Herman Edwards (who is coaching again and did a fine job) or Jim Harbaugh or a younger coach like Eric Bieniemy.

I'm not saying it has to be either one of those, but it would be refreshing to see us going in a new direction.

Eric Bieniemy is 49. Definitely wouldn’t be considered a younger coach. Not in a league that has coaches in their 30’s like Sean McVay and Kyle Shanahan.

[SladeX]

Given that Marv and Rex would have to work for the same Front Office, I would take Rex based on the entertainment value alone. If the team is doomed until Mike formally retires, then I could go for some new shtick - the blank stares, clapping and giggling are finally starting to wear on me.
If a coach can actually come in and succeed under the MB regime, then it would need to be someone young (as a HC), and innovative. Innovation might be an answer how a HC could get past being hamstrung by the organization.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-05-2018, 06:29 PM)OBX Bengal Wrote: I think Darrin Simmons is worth saving.

Simmons has been a good coach for us and if the new HC wanted to keep him i would be all for it.

(12-05-2018, 07:55 PM)XsandOs Wrote: You, and our friend Bengalholic, seem to like Van Pelt.

Just as a matter of principle, I would like to see him here, if Marv is removed. He lost his job twice, when his HC was fired in Buffalo and Tampa.

I feel that Mixon's running style is better suited behind a zone blocking scheme that Pollack uses.   

Aaron Rodgers sure liked Van Pelt too and Dalton seemed much better this year in terms of not panicking
when the plays broke down. Think Van Pelt had a lot to do with this as he was working with Dalton in this
aspect before the season.

Agreed on Mixon and Pollack, give Pollack a couple more good Lineman and than we can judge.

Redmond, Hart and even Glenn have not been decent. How much this is on Pollack i do not know but i want
to give him more time before saying he is not the answer at OL coach. One year is not enough to know.

(12-06-2018, 11:25 AM)SladeX Wrote: Given that Marv and Rex would have to work for the same Front Office, I would take Rex based on the entertainment value alone. If the team is doomed until Mike formally retires, then I could go for some new shtick - the blank stares, clapping and giggling are finally starting to wear on me.
If a coach can actually come in and succeed under the MB regime, then it would need to be someone young (as a HC), and innovative. Innovation might be an answer how a HC could get past being hamstrung by the organization.

Innovation and the ability to adjust during the game are what we need here that is for sure.