Time to jettison Duke Tobin.

[impactplaya]

this 3 yr playoff drought you can put at the feet of the 2014 to 2017 drafts.
no ELITE players at all.
swung and missed on 1st RD picks...not that hard to name.
letting Whitworth walk compounded with the failures of the OTs drafted has really set this franchise back.
not finding game changing defensive stalwarts...check.
should I include passing on Mahomes?

[*Nately120*]

Ehh Ida know...isn't he the only guy who isn't related to Mike Brown who makes any personnel decisions?

[eoxyod]

I mean he doesn't have the worst track record with 1st round picks. And he is limited in being able to do things such as sign free agents due to the rest of the front office being run by dumbasses

But just first round picks going back to 2011 which is where his influence may have been felt by the team you have:
AJ - HIT
Kirkpatrick - good enough? Not bad but not the greatest
Zeitler - HIT
Eifert - Unlucky to have the injury problems but still probably a hit from a personnel standpoint
Dennard - Miss
Ogbuehi - Loloololololol
WJ3 - HIT
Ross - At least a good player when people get their heads out of their asses and see the things he can do if we had a QB that could hit him
Price - Miss so far

That's not a terrible track record, and he's still had some hits and misses otherwise obviously. But, he cannot be blamed for Sanu, Jones, Whit, and Zeitler leaving in free agency. In fact it only puts more pressure on him to have to hit every single draft, and the draft is a huge crapshoot after the first round (And generally). Teams have really bad drafts sometimes. Getting a few good players is striking gold. That being said the 2014-15 drafts loom large and overall have hurt the team. But when there has been success outside of that it is hard to put a ton of blame on the guy. He had the right strategy in drafting 2 OTs, it just worked out terribly

[J24]

(12-05-2018, 03:05 PM)eoxyod Wrote: I mean he doesn't have the worst track record with 1st round picks. And he is limited in being able to do things such as sign free agents due to the rest of the front office being run by dumbasses

But just first round picks going back to 2011 which is where his influence may have been felt by the team you have:
AJ - HIT
Kirkpatrick - good enough? Not bad but not the greatest
Zeitler - HIT
Eifert - Unlucky to have the injury problems but still probably a hit from a personnel standpoint
Dennard - Miss
Ogbuehi - Loloololololol
WJ3 - HIT
Ross - At least a good player when people get their heads out of their asses and see the things he can do if we had a QB that could hit him
Price - Miss so far

That's not a terrible track record, and he's still had some hits and misses otherwise obviously. But, he cannot be blamed for Sanu, Jones, Whit, and Zeitler leaving in free agency. In fact it only puts more pressure on him to have to hit every single draft, and the draft is a huge crapshoot after the first round (And generally). Teams have really bad drafts sometimes. Getting a few good players is striking gold. That being said the 2014-15 drafts loom large and overall have hurt the team. But when there has been success outside of that it is hard to put a ton of blame on the guy. He had the right strategy in drafting 2 OTs, it just worked out terribly

Wait why can't he be blamed for Jones, Zeitler, and Whitworth? He is the defacto GM of the team the guy should be held responsible for those losses in free agency.

[*Synric*]

Dennard is a good slot corner. Issue is he's a first round pick for slot corner.

[eoxyod]

(12-05-2018, 03:52 PM)Jakeypoo Wrote: Wait why can't he be blamed for Jones, Zeitler, and Whitworth? He is the defacto GM of the team the guy should be held responsible for those losses in free agency.

Because he doesn't control the finances and where money goes, afaik. Mike Brown lays down the final decision on all that. If Tobin is the final decision on all that then it's on him

[BengalChris]

(12-05-2018, 02:47 PM)impactplaya Wrote: this 3 yr playoff drought you can put at the feet of the 2014 to 2017 drafts.
no ELITE players at all.
swung and missed on 1st RD picks...not that hard to name.
letting Whitworth walk compounded with the failures of the OTs drafted has really set this franchise back.
not finding game changing defensive stalwarts...check.
should I include passing on Mahomes?

You forget one thing, and I'm not disagreeing with you time to jettison Tobin, is that Mike Brown has to approve every contract offer, every contract language, every draft pick and every player who is or isn't re-signed.

Tobin doesn't decide what Whit is offered, draft picks are a group effort of the coaches and the scouts, with Mike Brown making the decision if there's no consensus on who the team should pick. For example, Marv wanted Rueben Foster while Tobin wanted Ross, leaving Mike Brown to decide. Willie Jackson was a good pick, just a down year this year like the entire defense. Ogbuehi and Fisher were awful and Marv had his hand in that, as did Mike Brown by insisting the team keep Paul Alexander on forever. Mike Brown has to approve every draft pick and that affects who the team even considers drafting.

Even if the team KNEW FOR SURE that Mohomes would be a great QB you very well could expect Marv and Mike to not want to draft him because Andy is their guy and he's on a team friendly deal.

To understand the Bengals' personnel moves you gotta understand how Mikey boy thinks, or maybe better stated, how Mikey boy reactively makes compulsive decisions trying not to make a bad decision. That's how the guy thinks.

[whodatchemist]

He was the man responsible for the 5 straight playoff appearances and is respected across the league for the job he has done in Cincinnati. He should take heat for the 14 and 15 draft classes, but there have been a lot more hits than misses when you look at his overall body of work. The 16-18 draft classes have been wins for the team adding impact players at WR (Boyd, Ross) DL (Lawson, Willis, Glasgow, Hubbard) , ST (Fedj), DB (Bates) and RB (Mixon).

[Au165]

One of the issues you will find is that not many All Star GM's are going to come here and give up the GM title (because Mike Brown is the GM) and work in these conditions. Tobin has had offers to go be a GM for other places but has stayed. He is over player personnel but doesn't get to tailor the coaching staff to firt the personnel like almost every other "GM" in the league can.

I feel like we are in this stage where we are just lashing out looking for people to blame.

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-05-2018, 03:05 PM)eoxyod Wrote: I mean he doesn't have the worst track record with 1st round picks. And he is limited in being able to do things such as sign free agents due to the rest of the front office being run by dumbasses

But just first round picks going back to 2011 which is where his influence may have been felt by the team you have:
AJ - HIT
Kirkpatrick - good enough? Not bad but not the greatest
Zeitler - HIT
Eifert - Unlucky to have the injury problems but still probably a hit from a personnel standpoint
Dennard - Miss
Ogbuehi - Loloololololol
WJ3 - HIT
Ross - At least a good player when people get their heads out of their asses and see the things he can do if we had a QB that could hit him
Price - Miss so far

That's not a terrible track record, and he's still had some hits and misses otherwise obviously. But, he cannot be blamed for Sanu, Jones, Whit, and Zeitler leaving in free agency. In fact it only puts more pressure on him to have to hit every single draft, and the draft is a huge crapshoot after the first round (And generally). Teams have really bad drafts sometimes. Getting a few good players is striking gold. That being said the 2014-15 drafts loom large and overall have hurt the team. But when there has been success outside of that it is hard to put a ton of blame on the guy. He had the right strategy in drafting 2 OTs, it just worked out terribly

Also, coaches i think have some say in the picks. I think PA had a say in the Og bust pick.

I wouldn't call Dennard a miss either, he just couldn't stay healthy. Fisher had the heart problem which made him
as the backup pick to Og not happen. I think the Lawson pick and both the Bates and Hubbard picks were great
picks. Cannot put everything on Tobin and if you do you have to admit the good picks too.

[*ochocincos*]

(12-05-2018, 02:47 PM)impactplaya Wrote: this 3 yr playoff drought you can put at the feet of the 2014 to 2017 drafts.
no ELITE players at all.
swung and missed on 1st RD picks...not that hard to name.
letting Whitworth walk compounded with the failures of the OTs drafted has really set this franchise back.
not finding game changing defensive stalwarts...check.
should I include passing on Mahomes?

You should also think about this though...how much of this is actually on the coaches rather then the player selected?
For example, Jared Goff was bad his rookie year with Jeff Fisher. Once Fisher was gone, McVay's staff really brought Jared along. So the pick itself may not have been bad, but how that player was used/developed once he got here.

[THE PISTONS]

Yes...get rid of the highest non-Brown family member in the organization.

That will make things better!

[XenoMorph]

(12-05-2018, 02:47 PM)impactplaya Wrote: this 3 yr playoff drought you can put at the feet of the 2014 to 2017 drafts.
no ELITE players at all.
swung and missed on 1st RD picks...not that hard to name.
letting Whitworth walk compounded with the failures of the OTs drafted has really set this franchise back.
not finding game changing defensive stalwarts...check.
should I include passing on Mahomes?

so back to mike brown running the draft board?

[fredtoast]

(12-05-2018, 03:05 PM)eoxyod Wrote: Ross - At least a good player when people get their heads out of their asses and see the things he can do if we had a QB that could hit him

You think if we let our QBs punch Ross then he wouldn't quit on routes?

That's a bit harsh.

[McC]

(12-05-2018, 08:16 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You think if we let our QBs punch Ross then he wouldn't quit on routes?

That's a bit harsh.

I've seen him under thrown and over thrown more than I've seen him quit on routes.  And they just have zero creativity in getting him the ball, which does not include sending him deep down the sidelines over and over again.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-05-2018, 08:28 PM)McC Wrote: I've seen him under thrown and over thrown more than I've seen him quit on routes.  And they just have zero creativity in getting him the ball, which does not include sending him deep down the sidelines over and over again.

Slants, quick outs, and crossing routes would make sense. Get the man the ball, with the opportunity to use his physical talent to make a man miss.  We can't be the only people who have ever thought of something like that.  Maybe they have tried, and he just doesn't get it?

[THE PISTONS]

(12-05-2018, 08:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Slants, quick outs, and crossing routes would make sense. Get the man the ball, with the opportunity to use his physical talent to make a man miss.  We can't be the only people who have ever thought of something like that.  Maybe they have tried, and he just doesn't get it?

The only possible reason I can think of that they don't send him over the middle is fear of him getting injured. He seems quite fragile.

[BengalsRocker]

(12-05-2018, 08:39 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Slants, quick outs, and crossing routes would make sense. Get the man the ball, with the opportunity to use his physical talent to make a man miss.  We can't be the only people who have ever thought of something like that.  Maybe they have tried, and he just doesn't get it?

Well at any rate it still amounts to that someone is stoopid.

[impactplaya]

the Bengals have missed the playoffs the last 3 years.
a think some new blood in the front office and coaching ranks can take the existing talent with a monster 2018 Draft and get the team back on the rails

[impactplaya]

2019 I meant