Our Our 1st Round CB's are apparantly allergic to interceptions

[Au165]

(12-07-2018, 02:56 PM)fredtoast Wrote: What is your source for this claim and what is our pressure rate this year.

https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/defense-and-pass-pressure-2017

I don't have 2018 numbers, but 2017 was a historic rate for pressures across all of the NFL and I can tell you we aren't close to what we were last year in pressures. Our lack of pressure has killed us this year, it kind of goes back to the old adage about winning in the trenches. WJ3 said scheme was part of the problem for the CB's but Paul Dehner Jr just posted an article basically saying that after week 6 teams stopped targeting the corners and going after the LB's because they were so bad in coverage. 

When you consider we have been horrible defending the run for two years with this LB group. Then you add in the fact that last year when we had pressure they were decent and this year without it they are horrible, you start getting a picture that our LB group can be hidden but when they have to stand up on their own they are bad. 

[THE PISTONS]

(12-07-2018, 03:13 PM)Au165 Wrote: https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/defense-and-pass-pressure-2017

I don't have 2018 numbers, but 2017 was a historic rate for pressures across all of the NFL and I can tell you we aren't close to what we were last year in pressures. Our lack of pressure has killed us this year, it kind of goes back to the old adage about winning in the trenches. WJ3 said scheme was part of the problem for the CB's but Paul Dehner Jr just posted an article basically saying that after week 6 teams stopped targeting the corners and going after the LB's because they were so bad in coverage. 

When you consider we have been horrible defending the run for two years with this LB group. Then you add in the fact that last year when we had pressure they were decent and this year without it they are horrible, you start getting a picture that our LB group can be hidden but when they have to stand up on their own they are bad. 

From what I saw, during the 1st half of the year we actually did get a lot of pressures but it didn't lead to sacks. I think that has declined a lot recently though.

[bengalhoel]

(12-07-2018, 12:51 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Some CB's will routinely intercept 5, 6, 7 passes in some seasons. Our 3 1st Round corners have a combined 0 interceptions this year. Look at these numbers:

Dennard - 3 interceptions total in 5 years. 0 this year. He's credited with 13 PD's in 5 years!
Note: Dennard is a free agent after this year. Think we'll overpay him???
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DennDa00.htm

Kirkpatrick - 10 interceptions in 7 years. 0 this year. He does have 61 PD's in his career.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KirkDr00.htm

William Jackson - 1 interception in 2 years. (He's actually been in the league 3 years.) 0 this year. He's been credited with 23 PD's. In Jackson's rookie year, he had more PD's than Dennard has in his entire career!
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackWi02.htm

This is pathetic.  That is really the only thing you can say. It really stinks too because there have been games when we have dropped INT's that could have changed the game.

[fredtoast]

(12-07-2018, 12:51 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Some CB's will routinely intercept 5, 6, 7 passes in some seasons.

Not really.

Over the previous 5 full seasons ('13-'17) there are only 3 DBs who have averaged 4 per season (Richard Sherman, Brent Grimes and Reggie Nelson) and only 3 more who have averaged more than 3 (Marcus Peters, Tashaun Gibson, Trumain Johnson, and Glover Quinn)

Interceptions are not as common as you think.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-07-2018, 05:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not really.

Over the previous 5 full seasons ('13-'17) there are only 3 DBs who have averaged 4 per season (Richard Sherman, Brent Grimes and Reggie Nelson) and only 3 more who have averaged more than 3 (Marcus Peters, Tashaun Gibson, Trumain Johnson, and Glover Quinn)

Interceptions are not as common as you think.

So are Dennard's 3 in 5 years Good in your book? And are 13 PD's in 5 years considered Good?

[*Nate (formerly eliminate08)*]

(12-07-2018, 12:51 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Some CB's will routinely intercept 5, 6, 7 passes in some seasons. Our 3 1st Round corners have a combined 0 interceptions this year. Look at these numbers:

Dennard - 3 interceptions total in 5 years. 0 this year. He's credited with 13 PD's in 5 years!
Note: Dennard is a free agent after this year. Think we'll overpay him???
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/D/DennDa00.htm

Kirkpatrick - 10 interceptions in 7 years. 0 this year. He does have 61 PD's in his career.
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/K/KirkDr00.htm

William Jackson - 1 interception in 2 years. (He's actually been in the league 3 years.) 0 this year. He's been credited with 23 PD's. In Jackson's rookie year, he had more PD's than Dennard has in his entire career!
https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/J/JackWi02.htm

Need all new coaches on the Defensive side of the ball, need a new Secondary coach, Darone Jones hasn't done
a good job. Need to get these Corners on the jugs machine as well. Lots of needs, cause yeah, this is unacceptable.

[fredtoast]

(12-07-2018, 05:06 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: So are Dennard's 3 in 5 years Good in your book? And are 13 PD's in 5 years considered Good?

No, but those numbers are not as bad as you make them out to be.  Dennard has only played a little over 1900 snaps.  That is about 2 full seasons for a full time starter.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-07-2018, 05:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No, but those numbers are not as bad as you make them out to be.  Dennard has only played a little over 1900 snaps.  That is about 2 full seasons for a full time starter.

Isn't it on Dennard who was a former 1st Round pick for playing that few snaps?

Much like you point out that Westerman doesn't play because he's not that good. Dennard doesn't get snaps because he's not that good.

And we do play 3-4 CB's at times...so it should be easier for a CB to get snaps than a Guard.

[bengalhoel]

(12-07-2018, 05:01 PM)fredtoast Wrote: Not really.

Over the previous 5 full seasons ('13-'17) there are only 3 DBs who have averaged 4 per season (Richard Sherman, Brent Grimes and Reggie Nelson) and only 3 more who have averaged more than 3 (Marcus Peters, Tashaun Gibson, Trumain Johnson, and Glover Quinn)

Interceptions are not as common as you think.

Those stats dont lie, but it seems like these CB's have dropped a lot of potential Int's the last couple of years. 

[McC]

(12-07-2018, 12:42 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Dennard is a bust. 3 Int's in 5 years and what 13 passes defensed?

That's pretty bad.

Okay.  We get it.  Dennard and DreK are pieces of shit and Jackson suxx too.  Please set the hammer down.  For crying out loud.  Give our poor heads a damn rest.  Uncle.

[fredtoast]

(12-07-2018, 05:56 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Isn't it on Dennard who was a former 1st Round pick for playing that few snaps?

Every CB who has played in front of Dennard was drafted higher than him (Newman #5, Jones #6, Kirkpatrick #17, Hall #18,  Jackson #24) 

[Sled21]

(12-07-2018, 08:43 AM)HarleyDog Wrote: Turnovers we’re supposed to be at the top of the defenses priority list this year. Sounds about right.

Well, to be honest, outside of the corners, we have had pretty good turnovers this year. Williams has 4, Bates has at least one, Dunlap and Hubbard each have one in the same game. Brown has 1 interception that I recall. I'm sure I'm forgetting some..... these are the one's I remember off the top of my head.

[THE PISTONS]

We did the unthinkable: 0 interceptions from a CB all year.

But the Pro is my numbers in my main post are still accurate!

Dennard is a free agent with 3 total interceptions in 5 years!

[Big Boss]

Zero interceptions by a cornerback all year.

Stunning.

[Trademark]

(12-30-2018, 11:22 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: We did the unthinkable: 0 interceptions from a CB all year.

But the Pro is my numbers in my main post are still accurate!

Dennard is a free agent with 3 total interceptions in 5 years!

I don’t know why people crap on Dennard. He’s a very good CB. Did you see how he played yesterday? I’d rather have him back and cut Kirkpatrick

[Jojo the Circus Boy]

(12-31-2018, 09:29 AM)Trademark Wrote: I don’t know why people crap on Dennard. He’s a very good CB. Did you see how he played yesterday? I’d rather have him back and cut Kirkpatrick

I would actually be for this. Kirkpatrick is due $11 million next year. Does he play like a top 14 corner in the NFL? So why are we paying him like one? But this organization doesn't seem to cut overpaid veterans. 

[THE PISTONS]

(12-31-2018, 09:29 AM)Trademark Wrote: I don’t know why people crap on Dennard. He’s a very good CB. Did you see how he played yesterday? I’d rather have him back and cut Kirkpatrick

Ever notice that CB's who play the 3rd CB role seem to excel...then when you move them to #1/2 CB they struggle?

Look how great Jackson was year. Then look at how his numbers came down to earth this year.

Same with Dennard. Move him to #1 CB and he'd be terrible.

As a #3 CB he's serviceable. But is that what you want out of a #1 pick? And he's likely to want $6-7 million a year.

[*jason*]

(12-31-2018, 11:48 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Ever notice that CB's who play the 3rd CB role seem to excel...then when you move them to #1/2 CB they struggle?

Look how great Jackson was year. Then look at how his numbers came down to earth this year.

Same with Dennard. Move him to #1 CB and he'd be terrible.

As a #3 CB he's serviceable. But is that what you want out of a #1 pick? And he's likely to want $6-7 million a year.

That's one instance, and William Jackson's career isn't over either. Pacman was the 3rd CB behind Leon Hall, Jonathan Joseph, Nate Clements, and Terrance Newman. He played pretty damn well in 2014 and 2015 once those guys were gone.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-31-2018, 11:53 AM)jason Wrote: That's one instance, and William Jackson's career isn't over either. Pacman was the 3rd CB behind Leon Hall, Jonathan Joseph, Nate Clements, and Terrance Newman. He played pretty damn well in 2014 and 2015 once those guys were gone.

He was also a #1 or #2 CB with the Titans early in his career.

There are guys who can make the jump from a 3 to a 1. But to project it, may or may not pan out.

I don't think Dennard would be a good #1. I think he'd struggle.

[KillerGoose]

(12-31-2018, 11:48 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: Ever notice that CB's who play the 3rd CB role seem to excel...then when you move them to #1/2 CB they struggle?

Look how great Jackson was year. Then look at how his numbers came down to earth this year.

Same with Dennard. Move him to #1 CB and he'd be terrible.

As a #3 CB he's serviceable. But is that what you want out of a #1 pick? And he's likely to want $6-7 million a year.

With regard to Jackson, he struggled with TA. However, since Marvin took over the defense, Jackson has played wonderful. I don’t have specific stats on hand, but I do know he has been graded as a Top 5 corner in the weeks after Marvin taking over. I’m not even sure he was targeted yesterday.

Jackson is very good.