Posts: 13,437
Threads: 132
Reputation:
89160
Joined: May 2015
(12-17-2018, 10:38 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Who cares about his qb rating on deep balls. YOU CAN'T USE QB RATING FOR DEEP BALLS. It isn't accurate.
You can throw a deep ball 50 yards for a TD and get a 158 rating. Another 50 yard deep ball at the one yard line gives you a 118 rating. The difference that each throw produces is 0.3 points yet there's a huge difference in qb rating of 40 points.
Do you understand the logic of that because if you don't just lurk back to your cave.
Dalton threw 3 for 16 2 Td and had a qb rating of 105. 3 for 16 is terrible on deep throws. It scored high because a couple of those were TD's
That's why he was 10 on the PFF list even though his rating was higher.
What's his numbers outside that one 2017 season?
And 3 for 16? Dalton only threw 16 balls over 20 yards in 2017? PFF says he threw 56 balls over 20 yards.
Posts: 20,702
Threads: 98
Reputation:
192236
Joined: May 2015
Location: Bluegrass Region
(12-17-2018, 09:21 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: You have to be joking. Green makes the most circus catches in the league. Some of those deep throws are way off target and he catches them.
Look at how Dalton can't complete a deep ball to Ross. That's because Ross can't make those circus catches on deep balls. Watch the games instead of convincing yourself Dalton's deep balls are the best you've ever seen.
You don't even listen. Just be gone. I said Driskel, plus a free agent qb, a first round qb, a good right tackle, and a good linebacker is better than Dalton.
These Bengals boards should have more honest fans and not Dalton's family members in here defending him.
Damn...3 QBs? What's that gonna cost? Seriously man, I haven't seen this much tap dancing since Danny ****ing Kaye. There are no QBs I'd draft this year in the 1st, period.
Dalton's family? Naw....I just see a bunch of OBJECTIVE counterpoints in this debate WITH STATS AND SOURCES to back them, and you have none. I seriously hope this is just an epic troll job on your part, if so, kudos.
"Better send those refunds..."
Posts: 299
Threads: 0
Reputation:
875
Joined: Sep 2016
(12-17-2018, 10:47 PM)Synric Wrote: That's why he was 10 on the PFF list even though his rating was higher.
What's his numbers outside that one 2017 season?
And 3 for 16? Dalton only threw 16 balls over 20 yards in 2017? PFF says he threw 56 balls over 20 yards.
I don't have PFF so i cant look it up. I'm talking over 30 yards.
If I win the lottery I'll spend half the money on alcohol, gambling and wild women. The other half I'll waste.
Posts: 153
Threads: 1
Reputation:
720
Joined: Apr 2018
(12-17-2018, 11:11 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: What the **** are you talking about. I showed his rankings against the starting qb's every year. How the **** is that not stats. He ranked above average once in 8 years.
I said by going with another qb like Driskels you could save 16 million get a free agent qb like Bradford, a right tackle and linebacker. Then draft a good qb.
Objective stats. no chance. You and the other trolls have cherry picked your stats by using only active qb's over 750 throws. Keep living the fiction about Dalton being top 10. He isn't so get the **** over it.
Omg we get it you don't like Dalton, he is trash, and we will never win with him, but seriously Driskel and Bradford talk about the bottom of the barrel. Dalton has had 4 offensive coordinators , tons of turn over in receivers and a O-line that has been trash the last few years. Dalton might not be Brady, Brees, or Manning but he is above average QB.
Posts: 7,100
Threads: 49
Reputation:
48644
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 40,628
Threads: 1,062
Joined: May 2015
(12-17-2018, 10:07 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: By watching the games as evidence. Here's evidence for the past two years he is below average on deep balls. He's ranked 23.
https://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2018/deep-ball-project
This formula is ridiculous.
If a QB throws an accurate pass then what difference does it make it there is a defender close by or not? And anytime you throw subjective aspects like a receiver "having to adjust" it turns into garbage. What is the exact definition of "adjustment". What if the receiver has to raise his hands 6 inches? Or a foot? What if it is an intentional "back shoulder" throw? What if a receiver prefers to reach and make the catch with his hands instead of catching it against his body? And how can a six inch adjustment on a 60 yard pass be just as bad as a six inch adjustment on a 16 yard pass?
When you add in the subjective BS you get a formula that gives the same credit for a 16 yard pass "under pressure" into a "tight window" as it does for completing a 60 yard bomb where the receiver moves his hands 6 inches. Go read this guys comments about Dalton each year. It is clear he does not like Dalton. He clearly was harder on Dalton with his subjective grading because he does not like Dalton. Perfect example is while he brags about how this formula eliminates a WRs ability to bail out a QB he still claims Dalton was more efficient because he had better receivers.
Basically you have presented a formula that would allow a QB to never throw a ball over 16 yards, complete a lower percentage than Dalton, throw fewer tds than Dalton, throw more ints than Dalton and still be rated higher than Dalton.
1
Posts: 40,628
Threads: 1,062
Joined: May 2015
(12-17-2018, 09:21 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: You have to be joking. Green makes the most circus catches in the league.
No he does not. You are just making that up.
If you are not then give me the top five WRs in "circus catches" over the last two years with exact numbers.
Posts: 299
Threads: 0
Reputation:
875
Joined: Sep 2016
(12-17-2018, 11:39 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This formula is ridiculous.
If a QB throws an accurate pass then what difference does it make it there is a defender close by or not? And anytime you throw subjective aspects like a receiver "having to adjust" it turns into garbage. What is the exact definition of "adjustment". What if the receiver has to raise his hands 6 inches? Or a foot? What if it is an intentional "back shoulder" throw? What if a receiver prefers to reach and make the catch with his hands instead of catching it against his body? And how can a six inch adjustment on a 60 yard pass be just as bad as a six inch adjustment on a 16 yard pass?
When you add in the subjective BS you get a formula that gives the same credit for a 16 yard pass "under pressure" into a "tight window" as it does for completing a 60 yard bomb where the receiver moves his hands 6 inches. Go read this guys comments about Dalton each year. It is clear he does not like Dalton. He clearly was harder on Dalton with his subjective grading because he does not like Dalton. Perfect example is while he brags about how this formula eliminates a WRs ability to bail out a QB he still claims Dalton was more efficient because he had better receivers.
Basically you have presented a formula that would allow a QB to never throw a ball over 16 yards, complete a lower percentage than Dalton, throw fewer tds than Dalton, throw more ints than Dalton and still be rated higher than Dalton.
I put another one up from PFF. I don't have PFF so I cant see his numbers.
If I win the lottery I'll spend half the money on alcohol, gambling and wild women. The other half I'll waste.
Posts: 2,825
Threads: 93
Reputation:
15790
Joined: May 2015
Location: SoWal, Fl
People may hate Dalton. People may be ready to move on. Fine. I get it. But Jeff O’Driskel is a way worse option. Anyone calling for him to start instantly loses credibility.
And never gets it back.
Ever.
Ever.
2
Posts: 299
Threads: 0
Reputation:
875
Joined: Sep 2016
(12-17-2018, 11:43 PM)fredtoast Wrote: No he does not. You are just making that up.
If you are not then give me the top five WRs in "circus catches" over the last two years with exact numbers.
I would say Green , Brown and Beckham are the best at making circus catches although I don't have the stats.
Green is tall with a length, can high point balls and make insane adjustments to bad balls. That's is strictly observations. Why are observations not valid. Do I have to bring up video of Green making circus catches on deep balls.
Go get it from PFF if they have which wide receivers make the best adjustments to balls. I don't have that stat.
If I win the lottery I'll spend half the money on alcohol, gambling and wild women. The other half I'll waste.
Posts: 40,628
Threads: 1,062
Joined: May 2015
(12-17-2018, 09:49 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Every years the starters are ranked based on qb rating. He has ranked above average only one year , 2015 , and yet you think he's above average. HE ISN'T ABOVE AVERAGE!!!!!!!!!!!
Every other single ***** year he's had 1 average ranking of 15, and every other year it is below average where he ranks 17 to 25.
This is getting ridiculous. Dalton has ranked in the top half of all qualifying QBs in 4 of his 7 seasons
2012 he ranked 13th out of 32
2013 he ranked 15th out of 37
2015 he ranked 2nd out of 34
2016 he ranked 15th out of 30
Do you honestly think people will just believe this BS you make up?
You can't just make up total lies and claim they are true.
Posts: 40,628
Threads: 1,062
Joined: May 2015
(12-17-2018, 11:49 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: I would say Green , Brown and Beckham are the best at making circus catches although I don't have the stats.
You don't have the stats because you just made them up.
Posts: 299
Threads: 0
Reputation:
875
Joined: Sep 2016
(12-17-2018, 11:52 PM)fredtoast Wrote: This is getting ridiculous. Dalton has ranked in the top half of all qualifying QBs in 4 of his 7 seasons
2012 he ranked 13th out of 32
2013 he ranked 15th out of 37
2015 he ranked 2nd out of 34
2016 he ranked 15th out of 30
Do you honestly think people will just believe this BS you make up?
You can't just make up total lies and claim they are true.
ranked 25 https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/qb-rating-nfl?season_id=16
ranked 17 https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/qb-rating-nfl?season_id=15
ranked 15 https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/qb-rating-nfl?season_id=14
ranked 2 https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/qb-rating-nfl?season_id=13
ranked 25 https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/qb-rating-nfl?season_id=12
ranked 17 https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/qb-rating-nfl?season_id=11
ranked 17 https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/qb-rating-nfl?season_id=10
ranked 22 https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/qb-rating-nfl?season_id=9
WHERE IS THE BS IM TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!! THESE STATS ARE RIGHT FROM THE WEBSITE RANKING THE ***** QB'S
If I win the lottery I'll spend half the money on alcohol, gambling and wild women. The other half I'll waste.
Posts: 299
Threads: 0
Reputation:
875
Joined: Sep 2016
(12-17-2018, 11:55 PM)fredtoast Wrote: You don't have the stats because you just made them up.
I said I don't have the stats. I just am going by watching the games. I already said that!!!
If I win the lottery I'll spend half the money on alcohol, gambling and wild women. The other half I'll waste.
Posts: 40,628
Threads: 1,062
Joined: May 2015
(12-17-2018, 11:44 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: I put another one up from PFF. I don't have PFF so I cant see his numbers.
You didn't post anything. You just made something up. Here are the PFF numbers on Dalton's deep passing ability
(12-17-2018, 05:08 PM)fredtoast Wrote: https://www.cincyjungle.com/2018/4/2/17188798/andy-dalton-is-a-better-deep-ball-passer-than-you-realize
Dalton’s 2017 deep passer rating clocked in at a 90. That may not register as impressive or not until I tell you that only seven quarterbacks had better ratings in 2017
Dalton’s deep passer rating rank from 2006-2016 was a 95.3, which should be shocking for fans who badmouthed him that whole time. Only nine current quarterbacks had a better deep passer rating over that same span, including Roethlisberger who beat him by 0.5.
Posts: 19,586
Threads: 144
Reputation:
161637
Joined: May 2015
Location: Covington, Ky
(12-17-2018, 05:49 AM)wolverine515151 Wrote: He wasn't significantly bad, and one game doesn't mean you can label a player as garbage. The fact is Dalton would have been as bad or worse than Driskel in yesterdays game.
A speculative statement can't be a fact. 
"The measure of a man's intelligence can be seen in the length of his argument."
Posts: 40,628
Threads: 1,062
Joined: May 2015
(12-17-2018, 11:58 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: ranked 25 https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/qb-rating-nfl?season_id=16
ranked 17 https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/qb-rating-nfl?season_id=15
ranked 15 https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/qb-rating-nfl?season_id=14
ranked 2 https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/qb-rating-nfl?season_id=13
ranked 25 https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/qb-rating-nfl?season_id=12
ranked 17 https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/qb-rating-nfl?season_id=11
ranked 17 https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/qb-rating-nfl?season_id=10
ranked 22 https://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/qb-rating-nfl?season_id=9
WHERE IS THE BS IM TALKING ABOUT!!!!!!!!!!! THESE STATS ARE RIGHT FROM THE WEBSITE RANKING THE ***** QB'S
Those stats are not accurate because they include playoff games. Not every starting QB has to play an extra game against a playoff level defense. Only fair way to compare QBs are on the games they ALL have to play. The only reason some f these guys rank ahead of Dalton is because they failed to make the playoffs. They passed Dalton sitting at home while Andy played against a playoff level defense.
Posts: 299
Threads: 0
Reputation:
875
Joined: Sep 2016
(12-18-2018, 12:08 AM)rfaulk34 Wrote: A speculative statement can't be a fact.
There's a good chance it would have been true. He had two bad games out of 3 with the same depleted roster as Driskel. No eifert, no green. Dalton posted an average qb rating of 74.
If I win the lottery I'll spend half the money on alcohol, gambling and wild women. The other half I'll waste.
Posts: 299
Threads: 0
Reputation:
875
Joined: Sep 2016
(12-18-2018, 12:11 AM)fredtoast Wrote: Those stats are not accurate because they include playoff games. Not every starting QB has to play an extra game against a playoff level defense. Only fair way to compare QBs are on the games they ALL have to play. The only reason some f these guys rank ahead of Dalton is because they failed to make the playoffs. They passed Dalton sitting at home while Andy played against a playoff level defense.
4 playoff games and 4 non playoff games. Only half of them used playoff games. That was only one playoff game so it doesn't make a huge difference. Then just look at the last 4 years without playoff games.
One above average ranking , one average and two below average.
If I win the lottery I'll spend half the money on alcohol, gambling and wild women. The other half I'll waste.
Posts: 40,628
Threads: 1,062
Joined: May 2015
(12-18-2018, 12:06 AM)wolverine515151 Wrote: I didn't make anything up you POS. I got this from PFF. I dont have PFF so I cant look it up. I've gone over why you cant use the qb rating for deep balls. Quit using that stat to measure deep balls.
https://ftw.usatoday.com/2018/03/nfl-most-accurate-quarterbacks-pro-football-focus-pff-stats-tom-brady-kirk-cousins
TDs should still count in the evaluation of deep passes. It may be that a defense is willing to give up a deep pass as long as it is not a td. Or a pass that hits a receiver in stride allowing him to score is better than one the player has to dive for and can not score.
You scream bloody murder over a QB getting an extra 30% increase in passer rating for throwing a deep td instead of a deep non-td, but you don't have any problem at all with a QB getting a 300% increase on a 16 yard completion based on subjective BS like how close a defender was or if a receiver had to move his hand 6 inches to catch it instead of 10 inches.
That is ridiculous.
|
![[Image: 4CV0TeR.png]](https://i.imgur.com/4CV0TeR.png)
