Driskel should be starter next year

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-24-2018, 03:53 PM)BengalChris Wrote: That is not entirely true. Andy Dalton has had AJ Green and a bunch of other decent receivers to throw to. Driskel's most reliable receivers are our two RBs. Brandon LaFell, if he were not on another team and on IR would easily be our best WR right now, by miles and miles. I really have no idea why the team and LaFell decided to part ways, he sure would have been a welcome target all year long.

All of that said, you do have a point. Driskel is not as good as Andy Dalton, but he's what we have.

I agree with what you say.....but in 2014 when we went up to Indy with Mo Sanu as our #1, and Rex Burkhead as our #2, that was no excuse for losing another playoff game.  People can't have their cake and eat it too...so to speak.  

I may catch hell for this, but with no Eifert and no Marvin Jones all season, and no AJ Green for a chunk of that, creativity from our OC that year is the only reason we got to 10-6 and made it to the playoffs.  We lack that creativity to compensate.

[BengalChris]

(12-24-2018, 03:58 PM)Wyche Wrote: I agree with what you say.....but in 2014 when we went up to Indy with Mo Sanu as our #1, and Rex Burkhead as our #2, that was no excuse for losing another playoff game.  People can't have their cake and eat it too...so to speak.  

I may catch hell for this, but with no Eifert and no Marvin Jones all season, and no AJ Green for a chunk of that, creativity from our OC that year is the only reason we got to 10-6 and made it to the playoffs.  We lack that creativity to compensate.

When it comes to 2014 you also need to remember that that was a bad year for Dalton when he had his 2.0 game against the Browns.

Agreed that there was much better use of the resources back then. Today the coaches, and players, seemed to have surrendered weeks ago.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-24-2018, 04:02 PM)BengalChris Wrote: When it comes to 2014 you also need to remember that that was a bad year for Dalton when he had his 2.0 game against the Browns.

Agreed that there was much better use of the resources back then. Today the coaches, and players, seemed to have surrendered weeks ago.

I certainly remember that...lol.  However, he threw for 25 TDs, ran for 5, and caught one.  That was being creative.




Interesting side note: I was not aware that Pig Pen had never thrown more than 32 TDs in a season until this year.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-24-2018, 03:53 PM)BengalChris Wrote: That is not entirely true. Andy Dalton has had AJ Green and a bunch of other decent receivers to throw to. Driskel's most reliable receivers are our two RBs. Brandon LaFell, if he were not on another team and on IR would easily be our best WR right now, by miles and miles. I really have no idea why the team and LaFell decided to part ways, he sure would have been a welcome target all year long.

All of that said, you do have a point. Driskel is not as good as Andy Dalton, but he's what we have.

I think you get what I was saying. Sure, Dalton has rarely had receivers THIS bad (save for the end of 2014), but he's dealt with terrible pass blocking for 4 years out of 8. He's never had a run game this good, save for this year and 2014. He's always had poor coaching that is stuck in a 1980's mindset offensively. 

And fwiw, Brandon LaFell is not a good WR. He has 12 catches for 135 yards this year, playing for a WR needy Raiders team. 

[TheUberHuber]

Lets make hardy nickerson the captain of the defense too.

[Shake n Blake]

(12-24-2018, 04:02 PM)BengalChris Wrote: When it comes to 2014 you also need to remember that that was a bad year for Dalton when he had his 2.0 game against the Browns.

Agreed that there was much better use of the resources back then. Today the coaches, and players, seemed to have surrendered weeks ago.

I wouldn't say it was a bad year. He had one terrible game that really dragged down his overall stats. Outside of that one game, he completed 66.7% of his passes with a respectable 89.6 rating with 24 TD's. He stepped up in some big wins that year. He was a key reason why we swept the Ravens (584 total yards, 3 TD's, 1 turnover, game winning 80 yard drive). 

He also played admirably well while AJ Green was out, leading the team to a 3-1-1 record in games Green missed (including the "decoy" game vs Denver). He had an 86.8 rating in those games.

So yeah, the 2.0 game happened, but if you actually dive into that season and look at it in-depth, Dalton actually played pretty well. Especially under the circumstances of having guys like Brandon Tate and Greg Little starting games at WR. 

[*bfine32*]

Why is it we must break our backup QB's performances down by quarter?

We did the exact same thing when McCarron had the best playoff game since any Bengal QB not named Boomer.

Mixon was running well in the first half; why take the ball out of his hands?

I get the Army must defend, but can we give the kid a fair shake?

[*bfine32*]

(12-24-2018, 02:51 PM)Wyche Wrote: Excuses.....  

A 123 passer rating requires no excuses; but it does seem it requires numerous negative critiques. 

[Lionel Hutz]

Driskel is an average to below-average backup QB. Only place he should maybe be starting next year is in the CFL. Bengals hopefully draft a QB next year (Haskins or Herbert) and keep Dalton around 1 more year before trading or cutting him.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-24-2018, 09:54 PM)bfine32 Wrote: A 123 passer rating requires no excuses; but it does seem it requires numerous negative critiques. 

If that's what you took away from that game was the 123 rating.....then good for you. I guess.

His performance in the 1st half is what got us beat.


Maybe he could get a fair shake in the CFL with another "kid that deserved a fair shake".....Johnny Fartball.

[Au165]

I'm not a Driskel believer, but I do find this whole thing interesting.

What do people think Driskel's ceiling is? Do people think he can be substantially better than Dalton? He isn't as good currently, but let's say in three years he is what? Maybe Dalton or slightly better? Do we want to spend three years redeveloping the same guy we got now?

This is where the whole thing falls apart for me. We know he isn't as good now as Dalton and he is three years in the league, not a rookie. Game experience or not he hasn't shown to be the guy so far in this interview period simply from an accuracy standpoint. If you look at Sam Darnold for instance, who lacks weapons, he has shown flashes of being "The Guy" yet Driskel has shown he doesn't make throws outside the hash marks accurately and struggles at times with accuracy between the hash marks still in his 3rd year. Accuracy is something that you either have or you don't and it appears Driskel will never be a super accurate guy.

I think there is a lot of talking past each other in this thread. I don't think a ton of people are anti a new QB, they are anti a third year QB who has struggled with accuracy and who's greatest trait is he throws hard and can run fast. If the thread was "someone else should start next year" I think people would be more open. Personally, I don't want to move from an average to above average QB to another one who's ceiling is what we have now just for the sake of moving. Give us a high end rookie QB and I can dig it, but making a move for the sake of making a move doesn't make any sense.

[wolverine515151]

(12-20-2018, 12:26 PM)fredtoast Wrote: A 50 yd completion that is not a td does not produce any points at all.


16 yd completion worth 1 point. 16 yard completion when defender 1 yd closer and receiver moves hands 10 inches instead of 6 inches worth 3 points. 300% increase.

A 50 yard throw to the one produces a td 92% of the time. The other 8% is a fg. That's 6.7 points produces from that throw 

A 50 yard throw for a td is obviously 7 points. 

The qb rating difference is 30% while the point produced is only 3%.  That's a 10 fold difference. 

The qb rating should measure how many points are produced by the throw. 

How do you not understand this ??????

On the other hand, brickallblitz's formula is off 300% to 100%. That's a 3 fold difference, so it is more accurate period!!

[fredtoast]

(12-28-2018, 06:02 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: The qb rating should measure how many points are produced by the throw. 

1.  I don't know why a perfect pass from the 10 yard line should be worth less than a perfect pass from the 49 yard line.  Why should field position determine how well a QB throws the ball?

2.  None of the formulas you propose take into account field position so that means they are all just as flawed.

I don't see your point.

[wolverine515151]

(12-20-2018, 10:24 AM)Truck_1_0_1_ Wrote: Haha, no.

Outsiders maybe, PFF? Not anymore.

Didn't you get the hint during your suspension?

Andy is significantly better than anyone on our roster and is top half in the league at his position.

Sit down and stop it and thanks a lot for turning a Driskel conversation into another, "Andy Thread."

Jesus Christ.

First of all, don't you ever flap your gums in my direction telling me to stop it. If you don't like the thread don't look at it.

Secondly, their both analytic sites. They are not like cbs, fox, espn bleacher report which are purely opinion sites.  

Driskel hasn't had any weapons and has put up better numbers than Andy Dalton with the same weapons. As far as I'm concerned, I'd give Driskel an incomplete on my assessment, because he has one of the  the worst offensive lines in the league, no Green,  no Boyd, no Eifert and no Kroft. He's started a measly 4 games and its too early to judge if he he's any good or not. 

He's put up decent qb ratings and the offensive is a run first offense. He is following the game plan that Lazor has implemented to run the ball a lot' that's why his yards are low. 

He has a 85 qb rating in those 4 games and Dalton has a 74 with the same weapons. 

Here some facts for you about Dalton!! So no he is not above average. 

QB RANKINGS SEASON AND PLAYOFF GAMES COMBINED

1 EXCELLENT SEASON  2   NO PLAYOFF GAMES
4 AVERAGE SEASONS 15 17 17 17  TWO PLAYOFF GAMES
3 BELOW AVERAGE SEASONS 25 25 22  TWO PLAYOFF GAMES

WITHOUT GREEN 80    QB RATING

PRIMETIME GAMES  69    QB RATING

PLAYOFFS 57    QB RATING

[XenoMorph]

(12-28-2018, 06:12 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Their both analytic sites. They are not like cbs, fox espn bleacher report which are purely opinion sites.  Andy is below average by any standard of measurement. 

Driskel hasn't had any weapons and has put up better numbers than Andy Dalton with the same weapons. As far as I'm concerned, I'd give Driskel an incomplete on my assessment, because he has one of the  the worst offensive lines in the league, no Green,  no Boyd, no Eifert and no Kroft. He's started a measly 4 games and its too early to judge if he he's any good or not. 

He's put up decent qb ratings and the offensive is a run first offense. He is is following the game plan that Lazor has implemented to run the ball a lot' that's why his yards are low. 

He has a 85 qb rating in those 4 games and Dalton has a 74 with the same weapons. 

Here some facts for you about Dalton. You need to stop it!!!!

QB RANKINGS SEASON AND PLAYOFF GAMES COMBINED

1 EXCELLENT SEASON  2   NO PLAYOFF GAMES
4 AVERAGE SEASONS 15 17 17 17  TWO PLAYOFF GAMES
3 BELOW AVERAGE SEASONS 25 25 22  TWO PLAYOFF GAMES

WITHOUT GREEN 80    QB RATING

PRIMETIME GAMES  69    QB RATING

PLAYOFFS 57    QB RATING

So you have actually watched driskel play and think hes our QB of the future.?


there is not enough laugh emotes to cover this.

[XenoMorph]

(12-24-2018, 09:53 PM)bfine32 Wrote: Why is it we must break our backup QB's performances down by quarter?

We did the exact same thing when McCarron had the best playoff game since any Bengal QB not named Boomer.

Mixon was running well in the first half; why take the ball out of his hands?

I get the Army must defend, but can we give the kid a fair shake?

well if your a QB you gotta play more than 1 QTR of good football...    QTRs 1-3 horrible....  Qtr 4 was good..   The defense was the star of that game not McCarron by anymeans.

[wolverine515151]

(12-28-2018, 06:14 PM)XenoMorph Wrote: So you have actually watched driskel play and think hes our QB of the future.?


there is not enough laugh emotes to cover this.

I'm giving him an incomplete because of what I've stated previously. He's put up better ratings than Dalton with the same depleted offense. He is told to run it a lot with Mixon which is why his throwing yards are low. 

What I do know is that Driskel plus a first round QB , a good right tackle, a good right guard, and a good linebacker is way better than Dalton.

That is what you will get if you either trade or cut Dalton. 

[fredtoast]

(12-28-2018, 06:02 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: The qb rating difference is 30% while the point produced is only 3%.  That's a 10 fold difference. 



On the other hand, brickallblitz's formula is off 300% to 100%. That's a 3 fold difference, so it is more accurate period!!

You can't compare percentages to raw numbers.

The passer rating formula creates a 30% higher rating with credit for a td.  We have no idea how much higher the rating in brickballblitz formula will be with a 300% increase in the raw data input.

[fredtoast]

(12-28-2018, 06:22 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: Show something then. You have shown absolutely nothing to back Dalton being above average.

Except his career passer rating and the fact that he has ranked above average in passer rating 4 of his seven seasons.

Plus his being in the top FIVE since he entered the league in rushing TDs by a QB, fourth quarter comebacks, game winning drives, and fumble percentage.

And, of course, PFFs showing that he is one of the better deep ball passers in the league.

[fredtoast]

(12-28-2018, 06:18 PM)wolverine515151 Wrote: What I do know is that Driskel plus a first round QB , a good right tackle, a good right guard, and a good linebacker is way better than Dalton.

Many first round QBs stink.  You have no clue.  Plus we can't use a first round pick on a tackle, guard, or LB if we get rid of Dalton.

How is getting rid of Dalton going to get us all these other players.