How Many Players Away Do YOU Think We Are?

[KillerGoose]

(12-15-2018, 10:39 PM)TheBengalsMind Wrote: The Bengals had created the NFL’s youngest roster with an average age of 25.2, I think the Browns eventually eclipsed us.

But a lot of teams in the top 10 have had extreme high peaks, but extremely low valleys. Like the Cowboys, Bengals, Browns and Colts. The Bengals being the only one of the 4 teams to start fast, but progressively get worse. The Colts, Cowboys and Browns had started slow, but have ended well.

Quarterback - Andy Dalton (High quality starter, top 10), Jeff Driskel (Capable backup). No needs.

RB - Joe Mixon (Has been above average to good starter, but injuries kept him from reaching great to elite level), Gio Bernard (Has also been an above average RB this year) Mark Walton (Ok, 3rd string RB). Bengals have two backs that fill nearly identical rows, could use someone like Benny Snell if he's still there in 3rd round, colleges best short yardage back in years, has similar running style to Corey Dillon. Fits perfect for AFC North football.

WR - AJ Green (Elite), Tyler Boyd (Good, high quality starter), John Ross (Below average, still very raw and still has potential), Alex Erickson (Below average, has high ST and returner capabilities, overall excellent 4-5 on depth chart guy).

Bengals have a number of developmental, younger players at WR. Bengals have a lot of stake in John Ross developing. I like drafting someone like Jesper Horsted from Princeton. He's about 6'3 to 6'4, about 230 pounds and runs in the 4.4 range. Can probably be had in 3rd or 4th round hopefully.

TE - Tyler Eifert (Elite, for his two games a year), Tyler Kroft (average), C.J. Uzomah (average).

Bengals also have a lot of younger developmental players at TE, but could definitely use a Delanie Walker or Jesse James in free agency. If we keep Kroft, which we should, Walker, even though in the latter stages of his career, would be an excellent pickup.

C - Billy Price (injuries played a big part, but honestly below average). The emphasis placed on established veterans over promising prospects is greater than ever as the collegiate game struggles to produce NFL ready-made offensive linemen.

Guard - Clint Boling (Average), Trey Hopkins (Average), Alex Redmon (Below average), Christian Westerman (Has looked good in small playing time, but doesn't have enough to warrant anything above being Average)

Tackle - Bobby Hart (poor), Ced Ogbuehi (poor), Cordy Glenn (Average), Jake Fisher (Average, but rarely healthy), Andre Smith (Average).

The Bengals offensive line has been below average, but still somehow better then last year. I think seeing what Westerman can do or moving Glenn to guard isn't out of the realm of possibility these last few games.

If Ty Sambrailo and Ereck Flowers both make it to free agency they can play tackle and help us out, both can be had cheaper and fit more into a Bengals signing. I expect us to draft at least one offensive linemen.

Bengals are pretty set at skill positions and quarterback, but can use a little more help on the offense line. Offense is in solid position overall. A lot of our younger guys ought to get better.

DE - Carlos Dunlap (Good starter), Carl Lawson (Good starter, elite rushing off edge at LB, injuries derailed this year), Michael Johnson (below average), Sam Hubbard (Average) Jordan Willis (below average).

We could really use another pure DE.

DT - Geno Atkins (Elite), Ryan Glasgow (Above average to good, before tearing his ACL), Andrew Billings (average), Niles Scott (at 280 pounds, he could be a very good DE, but average DT) Josh Tupou (Average).

Wouldn't hurt picking one up or drafting one.

LB - Nick Vigil (Good starter, very quietly developing into Jim Leclair type middle linebacker), Vincent Rey (below average), Jordan Evan's (poor), Perston Brown (below average, had 144 last year and has completely regressed under Lewis and company), Hardy Nickerson (poor), Vontaze Burfict (below average).

Easily worst position on team, Jim Haslet along with everybody not named Vigil should be shown the door. Marvin Lewis should be fired from HC, then hired as GM and be immediately fired from GM for assembling this unit together.

Josh Allen should be the Bengals first pick. Deone Bucannon a hybrid safety/linebacker can be got through free agency and will immediately improve our linebackers coverage ability. Draft another linebacker or two or get some in free agency.

S - Jesse Bates (Great starter), Shawn Williams (Solid average safety), Clayton Fejedelem (Arguably best depth player on team). Could use another good safety.

CB - Dre Kirkpatrick (Average), Darqueze Dennard (average), William Jackson (Good, high quality starter, but is more suited for man-to-man coverage), Harris (unknown haven't seen him).

The rest are below average CB's. Jason Varret has had injury problems, but if the Bengals could get him on a cap friendly 3 year deal, it could be a steal. We will probably also draft one.

Just going off the top of my head this is how I feel about our roster.

It's not terrible at all, a overhaul of the coaching staff and a few players could be all that is needed.

I agree with the majority of your write-up, good stuff.

It has been beaten to death and I don’t care to have the debate again, but the only thing I blatantly disagree with is your assessment of Dalton. To say he is a Top 10 QB makes me chuckle.

[*jason*]

(12-15-2018, 10:39 PM)TheBengalsMind Wrote: The Bengals had created the NFL’s youngest roster with an average age of 25.2, I think the Browns eventually eclipsed us.

But a lot of teams in the top 10 have had extreme high peaks, but extremely low valleys. Like the Cowboys, Bengals, Browns and Colts. The Bengals being the only one of the 4 teams to start fast, but progressively get worse. The Colts, Cowboys and Browns had started slow, but have ended well.

Quarterback - Andy Dalton (High quality starter, top 10), Jeff Driskel (Capable backup). No needs.

RB - Joe Mixon (Has been above average to good starter, but injuries kept him from reaching great to elite level), Gio Bernard (Has also been an above average RB this year) Mark Walton (Ok, 3rd string RB). Bengals have two backs that fill nearly identical rows, could use someone like Benny Snell if he's still there in 3rd round, colleges best short yardage back in years, has similar running style to Corey Dillon. Fits perfect for AFC North football.

WR - AJ Green (Elite), Tyler Boyd (Good, high quality starter), John Ross (Below average, still very raw and still has potential), Alex Erickson (Below average, has high ST and returner capabilities, overall excellent 4-5 on depth chart guy).

Bengals have a number of developmental, younger players at WR. Bengals have a lot of stake in John Ross developing. I like drafting someone like Jesper Horsted from Princeton. He's about 6'3 to 6'4, about 230 pounds and runs in the 4.4 range. Can probably be had in 3rd or 4th round hopefully.

TE - Tyler Eifert (Elite, for his two games a year), Tyler Kroft (average), C.J. Uzomah (average).

Bengals also have a lot of younger developmental players at TE, but could definitely use a Delanie Walker or Jesse James in free agency. If we keep Kroft, which we should, Walker, even though in the latter stages of his career, would be an excellent pickup.

C - Billy Price (injuries played a big part, but honestly below average). The emphasis placed on established veterans over promising prospects is greater than ever as the collegiate game struggles to produce NFL ready-made offensive linemen.

Guard - Clint Boling (Average), Trey Hopkins (Average), Alex Redmon (Below average), Christian Westerman (Has looked good in small playing time, but doesn't have enough to warrant anything above being Average)

Tackle - Bobby Hart (poor), Ced Ogbuehi (poor), Cordy Glenn (Average), Jake Fisher (Average, but rarely healthy), Andre Smith (Average).

The Bengals offensive line has been below average, but still somehow better then last year. I think seeing what Westerman can do or moving Glenn to guard isn't out of the realm of possibility these last few games.

If Ty Sambrailo and Ereck Flowers both make it to free agency they can play tackle and help us out, both can be had cheaper and fit more into a Bengals signing. I expect us to draft at least one offensive linemen.

Bengals are pretty set at skill positions and quarterback, but can use a little more help on the offense line. Offense is in solid position overall. A lot of our younger guys ought to get better.

DE - Carlos Dunlap (Good starter), Carl Lawson (Good starter, elite rushing off edge at LB, injuries derailed this year), Michael Johnson (below average), Sam Hubbard (Average) Jordan Willis (below average).

We could really use another pure DE.

DT - Geno Atkins (Elite), Ryan Glasgow (Above average to good, before tearing his ACL), Andrew Billings (average), Niles Scott (at 280 pounds, he could be a very good DE, but average DT) Josh Tupou (Average).

Wouldn't hurt picking one up or drafting one.

LB - Nick Vigil (Good starter, very quietly developing into Jim Leclair type middle linebacker), Vincent Rey (below average), Jordan Evan's (poor), Perston Brown (below average, had 144 last year and has completely regressed under Lewis and company), Hardy Nickerson (poor), Vontaze Burfict (below average).

Easily worst position on team, Jim Haslet along with everybody not named Vigil should be shown the door. Marvin Lewis should be fired from HC, then hired as GM and be immediately fired from GM for assembling this unit together.

Josh Allen should be the Bengals first pick. Deone Bucannon a hybrid safety/linebacker can be got through free agency and will immediately improve our linebackers coverage ability. Draft another linebacker or two or get some in free agency.

S - Jesse Bates (Great starter), Shawn Williams (Solid average safety), Clayton Fejedelem (Arguably best depth player on team). Could use another good safety.

CB - Dre Kirkpatrick (Average), Darqueze Dennard (average), William Jackson (Good, high quality starter, but is more suited for man-to-man coverage), Harris (unknown haven't seen him).

The rest are below average CB's. Jason Varret has had injury problems, but if the Bengals could get him on a cap friendly 3 year deal, it could be a steal. We will probably also draft one.

Just going off the top of my head this is how I feel about our roster.

It's not terrible at all, a overhaul of the coaching staff and a few players could be all that is needed.

Jesse Bates is great?

[Fan_in_Kettering]

How many players are the Bengals away from being competitive?

51.

Keep Dalton and Mixon and start over.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-15-2018, 11:29 PM)jason Wrote: Outside of KC, Philly, NE, Tampa, and Indy nobody has much at TE. Having a stud there definitely helps an offense, and a QB though. Andy Dalton is a different player when Tyler Eifert is out there. It might not be their biggest need, but I really would've liked OJ Howard instead of John Ross.

I would have liked Patrick Mahomes instead of a John Ross...

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-15-2018, 11:40 PM)Fan_in_Kettering Wrote: How many players are the Bengals away from being competitive?

51.

Keep Dalton and Mixon and start over.

Keep Dalton, but get rid of AJ, Geno, Boyd, WJ3, Bates? Ok lol

[*jason*]

(12-15-2018, 11:51 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: I would have liked Patrick Mahomes instead of a John Ross...

No doubt... I still think he wouldn't be doing that in Cincinnati though. Still a great player. I was proud that I drafted him in my fantasy league this year. Saw him in preseason last year, and was very impressed.

[SunsetBengal]

(12-15-2018, 11:33 PM)jason Wrote: Jesse Bates is great?

Maybe not today, but he certainly looks like he's going to be a great one.

[CKwi88]

Contender for what? Playoffs? Superbowl? World beaters?

I'd say anywhere from 3-8. Every team has holes every year, so acting as if we need to fill EVERY single hole this team has to be a contender is ridiculous. I say if we get 2 upgrades at OL and 2 upgrades at LB, this team is in the thick of it.

However, all problems start at the top. If the coaching doesn't change, our outcomes never will.

[THE PISTONS]

(12-15-2018, 10:39 PM)TheBengalsMind Wrote: The Bengals had created the NFL’s youngest roster with an average age of 25.2, I think the Browns eventually eclipsed us.

But a lot of teams in the top 10 have had extreme high peaks, but extremely low valleys. Like the Cowboys, Bengals, Browns and Colts. The Bengals being the only one of the 4 teams to start fast, but progressively get worse. The Colts, Cowboys and Browns had started slow, but have ended well.

Quarterback - Andy Dalton (High quality starter, top 10), Jeff Driskel (Capable backup). No needs.

RB - Joe Mixon (Has been above average to good starter, but injuries kept him from reaching great to elite level), Gio Bernard (Has also been an above average RB this year) Mark Walton (Ok, 3rd string RB). Bengals have two backs that fill nearly identical rows, could use someone like Benny Snell if he's still there in 3rd round, colleges best short yardage back in years, has similar running style to Corey Dillon. Fits perfect for AFC North football.

WR - AJ Green (Elite), Tyler Boyd (Good, high quality starter), John Ross (Below average, still very raw and still has potential), Alex Erickson (Below average, has high ST and returner capabilities, overall excellent 4-5 on depth chart guy).

Bengals have a number of developmental, younger players at WR. Bengals have a lot of stake in John Ross developing. I like drafting someone like Jesper Horsted from Princeton. He's about 6'3 to 6'4, about 230 pounds and runs in the 4.4 range. Can probably be had in 3rd or 4th round hopefully.

TE - Tyler Eifert (Elite, for his two games a year), Tyler Kroft (average), C.J. Uzomah (average).

Bengals also have a lot of younger developmental players at TE, but could definitely use a Delanie Walker or Jesse James in free agency. If we keep Kroft, which we should, Walker, even though in the latter stages of his career, would be an excellent pickup.

C - Billy Price (injuries played a big part, but honestly below average). The emphasis placed on established veterans over promising prospects is greater than ever as the collegiate game struggles to produce NFL ready-made offensive linemen.

Guard - Clint Boling (Average), Trey Hopkins (Average), Alex Redmon (Below average), Christian Westerman (Has looked good in small playing time, but doesn't have enough to warrant anything above being Average)

Tackle - Bobby Hart (poor), Ced Ogbuehi (poor), Cordy Glenn (Average), Jake Fisher (Average, but rarely healthy), Andre Smith (Average).

The Bengals offensive line has been below average, but still somehow better then last year. I think seeing what Westerman  can do or moving Glenn to guard isn't out of the realm of possibility these last few games.

If Ty Sambrailo and Ereck Flowers both make it to free agency they can play tackle and help us out, both can be had cheaper and fit more into a Bengals signing. I expect us to draft at least one offensive linemen.

Bengals are pretty set at skill positions and quarterback, but can use a little more help on the offense line. Offense is in solid position overall. A lot of our younger guys ought to get better.

DE - Carlos Dunlap (Good starter), Carl Lawson (Good starter, elite rushing off edge at LB, injuries derailed this year), Michael Johnson (below average), Sam Hubbard (Average) Jordan Willis (below average).

We could really use another pure DE.

DT - Geno Atkins (Elite), Ryan Glasgow (Above average to good, before tearing his ACL), Andrew Billings (average), Niles Scott (at 280 pounds, he could be a very good DE, but average DT) Josh Tupou (Average).

Wouldn't hurt picking one up or drafting one.

LB - Nick Vigil (Good starter, very quietly developing into Jim Leclair type middle linebacker), Vincent Rey (below average), Jordan Evan's (poor), Perston Brown (below average, had 144 last year and has completely regressed under Lewis and company), Hardy Nickerson (poor), Vontaze Burfict (below average).

Easily worst position on team, Jim Haslet along with everybody not named Vigil should be shown the door. Marvin Lewis should be fired from HC, then hired as GM and be immediately fired from GM for assembling this unit together.

Josh Allen should be the Bengals first pick. Deone Bucannon a hybrid safety/linebacker can be got through free agency and will immediately improve our linebackers coverage ability. Draft another linebacker or two or get some in free agency.

S - Jesse Bates (Great starter), Shawn Williams (Solid average safety), Clayton Fejedelem (Arguably best depth player on team). Could use another good safety.

CB - Dre Kirkpatrick (Average), Darqueze Dennard (average), William Jackson (Good, high quality starter, but is more suited for man-to-man coverage), Harris (unknown haven't seen him).

The rest are below average CB's. Jason Varret has had injury problems, but if the Bengals could get him on a cap friendly 3 year deal, it could be a steal. We will probably also draft one.

Just going off the top of my head this is how I feel about our roster.

It's not terrible at all, a overhaul of the coaching staff and a few players could be all that is needed.

Overall fairly accurate. I think Dalton is ranked a tad bit high. Vigil is ranked too high. He's more an average starter than a good one.

Green is elite...but he's also starting to lose durability each year.

[samhain]

A lot. It's not s much players as it is years. I'd say 2-3 years. The offensive line, despite changes last offseason needs an almost complete rebuild. The secondary is weak save for 2 players in WJ3 and Bates. They need about 3 linebackers and a NT.

A TE wouldn't hurt, either. And while we're sucking, might as well look at quarterbacks if top 5 picks if that situation becomes a reality.

[*psychdoctor*]

I would like to preface that if Brown is still running the team and there are no coaching changes, this will mitigate progress toward going far in the play-offs, even if the talent is there.

3-O-Line: Both tackles and guard. Not sure on Price just yet.
2-linebackers: Mike and WIL as I think Burfict is done
1-Top Tier TE: assuming Kroft can make it back
1-CB: Replacement for Dennard
1-WR: Ross is moving along slowly but still another would not hurt to help Boyd and Green
1-DT: Glasgow and Billings are showing up but still need another.
1-Safety: Bates is a keeper. Not sure Williams is the answer at his position.
1-Kicker: Randy has done okay so I am being picky here. But maybe a stud for those long FGs.
1-Punter: Huber is okay but I would like to see competition next season.
1-QB: Dalton is solid but not special or elite.

So I say 13 players. Bengals may be able to improve with 8 of those. But I do not trust the Front Office in bringing in top FA.

This upcoming draft I think they should target both backers, guard, TE, OT, CB, maybe one of the kickers.
The 2020 draft I think they should target QB, OT, WR, DT, safety, and the other kicker.
Hopefully the team can find hidden gems via UDFA signings in both drafts.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-15-2018, 11:58 AM)THE PISTONS Wrote: I remember last year - PFF had 7-8 of our starters ranked in the 40's/50's which is low. People thought we just needed to get rid of Alexander and the line would improve drastically. This year, it rates out about the same.

Some thought with 1-2 additions that the team would be a contender this year. We're obviously not.

So what are your thoughts? How many upgrades do we need?

I'd say we need at minimum:
-3 upgrades on the offensive line - (1 could be Price improving his play)
-1 starting TE (not Eifert. Time to move on)
-3rd WR - (Maybe Ross improves into that role. We definitely need more production out of that spot.)

On Defense
-2 LBs - I'll count Vigil as being ok for next year assuming we can upgrade the other 2 spots.
-DT? - We could use another Good DT. The guys we have next to Geno are average at best. Maybe Glasgow recovers and it's him?
-CB - Outside of Jackson, we need another CB to play more capable. Maybe the pass rush helps that?

That's a lot of needs for 1 year.

Honestly,  I believe we need a RT, a TE, a Safety, and most importantly, a new coach and coaching staff.

This team has a lot of talent, but it is horribly mismanaged and wastes the talent they do have already. 

[BengalsBong]

We build thru the draft and we have had 3 losing seasons in a row{if we lose one more} so I don't see any real impact players signing with us in FA. That being said we will get 2 or 3 starters at best out of the draft. If Marvin comes back and he is calling the defense then we should be ok with just adding depth for the most part. On D the only real addition we need is a every down pass rusher across from Dunlap. Shuffle the LB's and maybe re-sign Preston Brown he did not get to play much when Marvin was calling the plays. And we cant expect much from him when Austin was calling the plays cause he even made Geno look bad this year.


On the offensive side of the ball I am hoping we get a new OC yes the best option there right now is Hue if Marvin is still going to be the head coach. Weather Hue or Lazor is the OC we need the Oline fixed Give Pollock 2 top picks to get us a RG and RT in this years draft.

P.S. DO NOT COUNT ON Burfict.

[Fullrock]

The fact that some still think Dalton is a top 10 QB is mind-numbing. He's in the 15-20 range. Can anyone really list 22 teams that would take Dalton as their QB over their current starter? This team is in full rebuilding mode. They should be looking to dump multiple players for as many draft picks as possible.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-16-2018, 10:49 AM)Fullrock Wrote: The fact that some still think Dalton is a top 10 QB is mind-numbing. He's in the 15-20 range. Can anyone really list 22 teams that would take Dalton as their QB over their current starter? This team is in full rebuilding mode. They should be looking to dump multiple players for as many draft picks as possible.

And I even get people (non-Bengals fans) arguing with me when that’s exactly where I rank him. Some see him more up around 25 or so. Which I think is not accurate. He’s not anywhere near top 10 though.

[Catmandude123]

(12-15-2018, 11:55 PM)Nicomo Cosca Wrote: Keep Dalton, but get rid of AJ, Geno, Boyd, WJ3, Bates? Ok lol

Everyone agrees we need seven upgrades to be competitive. Even if they had seven picks in the first three rounds that's a tall order to fill. Heh maybe Mikey opens his check book and fills a few of those slots with decent FAs. Somebody slap me I'm dreaming again.

[Nicomo Cosca]

(12-16-2018, 11:22 AM)Catmandude123 Wrote: Everyone agrees we need seven upgrades to be competitive. Even if they had seven picks in the first three rounds that's a tall order to fill. Heh maybe Mikey opens his check book and fills a few of those slots with decent FAs. Somebody slap me I'm dreaming again.

Not everyone. I don’t. I think a couple good OL picks, and a couple good LB picks could make us competitive. Hell, we were competitive half the season with the team we have now.

[jfkbengals]

So it's kind of a loaded question.

In reality, if you look back to the accomplishments of the beginning of the season, the answer is zero.

With a good scheme and each side of the ball and healthy starters, we are good to go.

But to overcome injuries, we need better depth, so I would say we are 3 guys away in that regard, 1 OT and 2 LBs.

[BengalsRocker]

[*jason*]

(12-16-2018, 12:02 AM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Maybe not today, but he certainly looks like he's going to be a great one.

This time 4 years ago we thought the same thing about Jeremy Hill. I like Bates, and I hope he does pan out, but that seemed to be borderline hyperbole to me. He has been a bright spot on a turd of a defense though...