How many years do we talk about what the Bengals need to do to fix...

[THE PISTONS]

...the team in the offseason. Yeah draft 2-3 quality starters at these positions. Sign 2-3 quality free agents.

Yeah...it usually doesn't go down like that. We have a bunch of starters that rate in the 40's and 50's on PFF. It's hard to fix that without major changes. The Bengals don't ever seem to be willing to make that many.

For instance, this past offseason...to address Tackle - They signed Hart who was a bad player with the Giants and let him compete with Ced and Fisher - our 2 busts. Yeah...that worked out really well!!!

26+ years of no playoff wins!

[*Nately120*]

We know what is wrong, but the NFL is a monopolistic oligopoly with revenue sharing. This removes the truly capitalistic safeguards that normally limit the amount of incompetence a business owner can exhibit for decades at a time without losing his business to a more focused competitor. The Mike Brown way clearly doesn't lead to post-season/championship success...however, given the above, only Mike Brown can limit the amount of power Mike Brown gives Mike Brown.

[*bengalfan74*]

As long as Mike Brown is GM

[BengalChris]

(12-23-2018, 10:28 PM)Nately120 Wrote: We know what is wrong, but the NFL is a monopolistic oligopoly with revenue sharing.  This removes the truly capitalistic safeguards that normally limit the amount of incompetence a business owner can exhibit for decades at a time without losing his business to a more focused competitor.  The Mike Brown way clearly doesn't lead to post-season/championship success...however, given the above, only Mike Brown can limit the amount of power Mike Brown gives Mike Brown.

^^^ This. It all starts at the top of the organization and the NFL could care less if a team owner is an inept, incompetent idiot.

[SunsetBengal]

Just a reminder that injecting political speak into sports discussion is NEVER acceptable in Jungle Noise, or any of the sports forums. Feel free to create a thread on this topic in the Politics and Religion forum when it reopens, after the holiday.

[*Nately120*]

(12-23-2018, 10:47 PM)SunsetBengal Wrote: Just a reminder that injecting political speak into sports discussion is NEVER acceptable in Jungle Noise, or any of the sports forums.  Feel free to create a thread on this topic in the Politics and Religion forum when it reopens, after the holiday.

[BenZoo2]

(12-23-2018, 10:37 PM)BengalChris Wrote: ^^^ This. It all starts at the top of the organization and the NFL could care less if a team owner is an inept, incompetent idiot.

I disagree about the nfl caring about other owners. I think the league and owners would like to see every team spend enough to get off the tit of revenue sharing. Then let ineptness reign.

To the op, almost every team has weaknesses they want or need to address. Most choose to address filling these needs via all means at their disposal. The bengals, to no ones surprise, prefer to fill thru the draft where player cost is lowest, then fill in with lower priced free agents.

And sunset, I didn’t take anything posted here as political, merely citing an example of a model


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[THE PISTONS]

(12-23-2018, 11:03 PM)BenZoo2 Wrote: I disagree about the nfl caring about other owners.  I think the league and owners would like to see every team spend enough to get off the tit of revenue sharing.  Then let ineptness reign.

To the op, almost every team has weaknesses they want or need to address.  Most choose to address filling these needs via all means at their disposal. The bengals, to no ones surprise, prefer to fill thru the draft where player cost is lowest, then fill in with lower priced free agents.  

And sunset, I didn’t take anything posted here as political, merely citing an example of a model


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Yep...but with the draft you have no clue which guys will turn into solid Pro's.

Basically our of your 7 picks...2 may turn out good. Those are bad odds.

[Gamma Ray Tan]

The answer has always been the same, every year....Mike Brown needs to go. Until that day comes, we will continue to wander in the wasteland of football hell.

[McC]

(12-23-2018, 10:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: ...the team in the offseason. Yeah draft 2-3 quality starters at these positions. Sign 2-3 quality free agents.

Yeah...it usually doesn't go down like that. We have a bunch of starters that rate in the 40's and 50's on PFF. It's hard to fix that without major changes. The Bengals don't ever seem to be willing to make that many.

For instance, this past offseason...to address Tackle - They signed Hart who was a bad player with the Giants and let him compete with Ced and Fisher - our 2 busts. Yeah...that worked out really well!!!

26+ years of no playoff wins!

Oh good. Pistons finding yet another way to tell us all how bad we suck.  The first thousand were not enough.  I predict another half dozen ways to say the same exact thing just today  alone.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-24-2018, 09:51 AM)McC Wrote: Oh good. Pistons finding yet another way to tell us all how bad we suck.  The first thousand were not enough.  I predict another half dozen ways to say the same exact thing just today  alone.

.....well, you gotta admit, we do suck.....and there's not much going to change with Ebenezer still at the helm.  Lapham said yesterday that there is a report out there that Marvin has been told he can leave when he decides it's time.  Seriously.....who tf runs a team, or any other business like that?  Good Lord I'm about at my wits end with that old sack of shit.

[McC]

(12-24-2018, 10:03 AM)Wyche Wrote: .....well, you gotta admit, we do suck.....and there's not much going to change with Ebenezer still at the helm.  Lapham said yesterday that there is a report out there that Marvin has been told he can leave when he decides it's time.  Seriously.....who tf runs a team, or any other business like that?  Good Lord I'm about at my wits end with that old sack of shit.

No denying that.  But how many ways does it have to be said?  How many more ways are there to be hit over the head with it?  Uncle. For the love of God, uncle.

[*Wyche'sWarrior*]

(12-24-2018, 10:06 AM)McC Wrote: No denying that.  But how many ways does it have to be said?  How many more ways are there to be hit over the head with it?  Uncle. For the love of God, uncle.

LMAO....I feel ya.  I was trying to remain a bit optimistic.....but after what Lapham had to say at the end of the game yesterday......I'm really pissed off at these effers myself.

[*Nately120*]

(12-24-2018, 10:08 AM)Wyche Wrote: LMAO....I feel ya.  I was trying to remain a bit optimistic.....but after what Lapham had to say at the end of the game yesterday......I'm really pissed off at these effers myself.

I missed what Lapham had to say...where can I find this punch in the gut of statement?  Why do I do this to myself?  Ok, what did he say?  I can assume....

[I_C_DeadPeople]

Career Development Advisory Panel recommends several G.M. candidates
Posted by Mike Florio on December 26, 2018, 11:25 PM EST
Getty Images

It’s not clear how many true General Managers jobs will be available in early 2019 — jobs that may or may not entail full and complete control over the roster and/or the draft.

For any G.M. jobs that come open, whether those that have final say or that don’t, the NFL’s Career Development Advisory Panel has compiled a list of viable G.M. candidates. PFT has obtained the list from a league source with knowledge of its contents.

They are as follows, in no particular order: Bengals director of player personnel Duke Tobin, former Giants G.M. Jerry Reese, Vikings assistant G.M. George Paton, former Raiders G.M. Reggie McKenzie, ESPN analyst Louis Riddick, Saints assistant G.M. (and former Dolphins G.M.) Jeff Ireland, 49ers senior personnel executive (and former Lions G.M.) Martin Mayhew, Jaguars G.M. Dave Caldwell (who is available for a G.M. job that entail control over the football operations, since he doesn’t have it in Jacksonville), Washington senior V.P. of player personnel Doug Williams, Cowboys assistant director of player personnel Will McClay, Patriots V.P. of player personnel Nick Caserio, Ravens assistant G.M./G.M. in waiting Eric DeCosta, and Chargers senior executive (along with current AAF Salt Lake G.M. and former Seahawks and Saints G.M.) Randy Mueller.

Some General Manager positions come open in January. Others come open after the draft. The number of expected vacancies this year is far from clear.

[*SHRacerX*]

(12-23-2018, 10:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: ...the team in the offseason. Yeah draft 2-3 quality starters at these positions. Sign 2-3 quality free agents.

Yeah...it usually doesn't go down like that. We have a bunch of starters that rate in the 40's and 50's on PFF. It's hard to fix that without major changes. The Bengals don't ever seem to be willing to make that many.

For instance, this past offseason...to address Tackle - They signed Hart who was a bad player with the Giants and let him compete with Ced and Fisher - our 2 busts. Yeah...that worked out really well!!!

26+ years of no playoff wins!

You can't argue that what they did this past year didn't work.  I am with you 100% there, but it was not for a lack of trying (am I really going to defend them?  Not entirely).

I think we all were thrilled that they slid back and got Cordy Glenn, and drafted Price.  Two huge issues on the line were immediately addressed with one selection.  They got rid of Paul Alexander and brought in Pollack.  Another huge issue in the eyes of many.  They made moves, but it wasn't enough.  They needed to draft an OT and they passed on the huge RT from Oklahoma multiple times.  Where did he go?  Baltimore, a pick or two after we selected the incredibly average Malik Jefferson.  It was as though they couldn't go all the way to make a big difference on the offensive line.  They did some things, but not enough, and the team suffered for it.

And although the Bengals told me they thought Shaquem Griffin was too small for an NFL LB (he is the same size as Odell Thurman), his only start he had six solo tackles and one for loss.  And that was the first game of the season because KJ Wright was out injured.  

I think the biggest problem isn't the talent.  Some of the things I see Ross do....I think he is completely wasted on this team.  Ditto Gio, Mixon early on, Uzomah until Kroft and Eifert went down...and on defense.  I feel so bad for the players that are told to play off, then rally up and make tackles in space.  It is the most conservative, stupid scheme I have ever watched in the history of the NFL.  I mean, there were several games where for a stretch over several quarters, the defense did NOT EVEN HAVE TO TAKE THE FIELD, and the same thing would have happen.  TD, TD, TD, TD....it was pathetic.  They simply do not get anything out of the talent they have.  WJIII should be following the opponents #1 WR, and Dre should also be playing press man.  We knew they needed LBs and we hoped for a veteran FA to provide some stability.  They signed Brown from Buffalo, and we all thought that was a great move.  Didn't overpay.  He made a huge INT early  in the year against the Colts and then went down to an injury and was never the same after that.  Add in injuries to Vigil and the issues that always surround Burfict, and there you have the LB crew that was addressed, but ended up worse than when they started.  

The coaches have been a huge issue.  Austin was a wet firecracker.  Lazor hasn't been anything but average.  Marvin still doesn't know how to motivate a team, let alone manage a clock.  The real issue here is leadership, and it isn't from the owner.  They need all new coaches to get the most out of this roster.  

The roster clearly still has huge needs at OT, LB, TE, and LB (yes, I said it twice) but I believe Brown was on a two year deal and they will certainly be drafting one or two early next year.  When I see the contribution of a Leighton Vander Esche at Dallas, I think a first round LB would make a bigger impact than an OT (especially since it will be a RT, unless they decide to move Glenn to the right side, which actually makes some sense).  

It will just be groundhog day, again, though unless they clean house with the coaches and I don't see it happening.  

[*bengalfan74*]

(12-28-2018, 11:26 AM)SHRacerX Wrote:  They simply do not get anything out of the talent they have. 

The coaches have been a huge issue.  Austin was a wet firecracker.  Lazor hasn't been anything but average.  Marvin still doesn't know how to motivate a team, let alone manage a clock.  The real issue here is leadership, and it isn't from the owner.  They need all new coaches to get the most out of this roster.  

It will just be groundhog day, again, though unless they clean house with the coaches and I don't see it happening.  

Couldn't agree more. The ineptness displayed by this coaching staff is just off the charts !

[XenoMorph]

(12-23-2018, 10:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: ...the team in the offseason. Yeah draft 2-3 quality starters at these positions. Sign 2-3 quality free agents.

Yeah...it usually doesn't go down like that. We have a bunch of starters that rate in the 40's and 50's on PFF. It's hard to fix that without major changes. The Bengals don't ever seem to be willing to make that many.

For instance, this past offseason...to address Tackle - They signed Hart who was a bad player with the Giants and let him compete with Ced and Fisher - our 2 busts. Yeah...that worked out really well!!!

26+ years of no playoff wins!

well no matter the team 0 wins or 19 there will always be something to fix.. or that could be improved.

[samhain]

(12-23-2018, 10:11 PM)THE PISTONS Wrote: ...the team in the offseason. Yeah draft 2-3 quality starters at these positions. Sign 2-3 quality free agents.

Yeah...it usually doesn't go down like that. We have a bunch of starters that rate in the 40's and 50's on PFF. It's hard to fix that without major changes. The Bengals don't ever seem to be willing to make that many.

For instance, this past offseason...to address Tackle - They signed Hart who was a bad player with the Giants and let him compete with Ced and Fisher - our 2 busts. Yeah...that worked out really well!!!

26+ years of no playoff wins!

To be fair, they did trade for Glenn.  He's not the player he once was, but he's worlds better than the other tackles we have.

As far as needs and turning a team around, it can happen in the NFL.  The Bengals handed the Eagles a beatdown back in 16, and we were not good that year.  Next thing you know, they're SB champs.  The Bears have turned things around very quickly as well.  The Chiefs went from a perennial upper-mid tier team to a powerhouse with one player (albeit, an MVP type).  The Rams were a laughingstock under Jeff Fisher, and became great with most of the same players that Fisher had at his disposal.

Seattle is probably the most encouraging.  They kept the same coaches and turned over one of the most feared defensive units in the league in a fairly short time to become relevant very quickly.  They suffered through some abysmal o-line play along the way, mixing and matching turds much as we are right now.

The unfortunate part is, almost every team mentioned had to accept some form of major change before they could make the quick turn around.  New quarterback, new coach/system, letting go of players that were at one time franchise superstars, etc.  None of these things are in the Bengals DNA without hitting rock-bottom in some way.  I don't think we've hit what Mike sees as rock bottom.

[PV Bengal]

(12-28-2018, 12:05 PM)samhain Wrote: {SNIP}  None of these things are in the Bengals DNA without hitting rock-bottom in some way.  I don't think we've hit what Mike sees as rock bottom.

Unfortunately, what Mike Brown sees as "rock bottom" is 1991 thru 2002 ... 55 wins vs. 87 losses (63.2%)

We have 9 more years to go (counting the 2 past seasons plus the current one) and we currently sit (after 3 years) at 19-1/2 vs. 28-1/2 (68.4%).